You've got to be kidding me.

[Tim Day]

So what needs to happen?  These cadets don't need disciplined, nobody needs written up or 2b'd.  What needs to happen is someone from that Group or even Wing needs to get on the horn and insure its handled and that we don't have cadets and/or seniors representing CAP like a bunch of kids out playing in their back yard.   Ive worked in CAP and with SAR volunteers who brought amazing skill and training to the table and Ive worked with volunteers who were compete idiots who were volunteering because they couldn't hold a job. 

Give cadets a purpose, let them learn and experience,  but don't let them make fools out of themselves in the process.

I agree.

That is actually being done, out of view of CAPTALK and other public fora, and not just for these cadets but for everyone involved. The non-CAP organizations are doing the same thing, as I'm sure you would be aware. I get to see both processes at work, to some extent, due to connections with the non-CAP volunteer SAR organizations - so I second your observation that the same problems exist outside of CAP.

In addition to the lessons learned and follow-on public affairs awareness training, I think we need to have an informed and rational discussion regarding what types of PPE should be worn even if not in the current CAPM 39-1. These additional items of PPE range from less to more controversial.

In my view, less controversial items would be gaiters. Wearing them is normal practice among SAR groups here in Virginia.

More controversial might be hiking boots other than black combat boots. These tend to be much less readily available than civilian hiking boots, which means our members pay more and are less likely to get a good fit.

Non-starters would likely include BDU boonie hats, per the stated Air Force decision.

I agree that PPE lists should not be an excuse for dressing however we want. PPE lists need to take into account regional differences and should be based on what is required / normal for local SAR groups if possible.

[JeffDG]

But unlike CAP.... ultimately those magazine pouches are for magazines loaded with real bullets.

When was the last time you had gloves in your glove-box in the car?

[Flying Pig]

I don't have a glove box.  Its a gun case    As far as my patrol car.......  It was stuffed with latex gloves

[Dr.T]

There is at least one picture of a cadet with a tactical vest and magazines pouches. Magazine pouches?! Didn't we just have two threads discussing the issue of ground teams carrying weapons? What useful purpose do magazine pouches serve besides holding magazines? This does not help our public image.

In fact, the single M-16 magazine pouch is exactly the right size for an EFJ5100 radio. The flash-bang pouch is exactly the right size for the (now prohibited) Wouxun radio.
DrT

[Private Investigator]

I don't have a glove box.  Its a gun case    As far as my patrol car.......  It was stuffed with latex gloves

True that, now that is funny cool   

[Eclipse]

More controversial might be hiking boots other than black combat boots. These tend to be much less readily available than civilian hiking boots, which means our members pay more and are less likely to get a good fit.

I agree with pretty much everything, other then your obsession with gaiters, which might
be based on the "Day Gaiter Consortium" I saw on Google, but I would consider them
"equipment" and say that if needed they could certainly be worn >WHEN< needed,
meaning before you wander into the woods, not in the car on the way, at the Denny's,
nor at meetings, etc.

Now as to black boots being "less available" then hiking boots, that's just not true, unless there aren't Walmarts in Virginia.   I was there this weekend looking at very nice black side-zip, combat-height, tactical boots.

Maybe Corcoran jump boots aren't readily available, but what members should be wearing certainly are.

[lordmonar]

Is this horse dead yet?

What and pass up the opportunity of beating up a pair of kids for trying to be cool?   No way!  We are good for 3-4 more pages at least.

[Private Investigator]

Is this horse dead yet?

What and pass up the opportunity of beating up a pair of kids for trying to be cool?   No way!  We are good for 3-4 more pages at least.

Exactly and have we even started with the Senior Member / GTL / chaperone yet?  :clap:

[Garibaldi]

"Name 5 things wrong with this picture"

*bzzt*

1. Hats
2. No safety vests
3. No mixed senior chaperones.
4. No GTL in sight
5. Ummm....

[lordmonar]

Is this horse dead yet?

What and pass up the opportunity of beating up a pair of kids for trying to be cool?   No way!  We are good for 3-4 more pages at least.

Exactly and have we even started with the Senior Member / GTL / chaperone yet?  :clap:

Why stop there.

This sort of thing happens at all levels of the organization.

National Commanders who remained in blues a little too long.
Regional commanders withe subdued rank on their flight suits.
Wing Commanders violating these rules.
Wings simply doing what ever they want (a la CAWG's ES uniforms and all that ranger bling in PAWG).

I know that we try to make ES fun on the GT side of things....and if rangering up gets them out into the field....well I don't mind to much.
Boonies.....well you know....we have only been fighting that one for since 1941.   This ain't the first time CAP members have gone to the field in boonies and it ain't going to be last.

And it will continue to happen.....until we start firing some leaders.

/rant

[lordmonar]

"Name 5 things wrong with this picture"

*bzzt*

1. Hats
2. No safety vests
3. No mixed senior chaperones.
4. No GTL in sight
5. Ummm....

3.  If they are not going to be over night they don't have to be mixed.
4.  No GTL in "Frame"...He might just be off camera....in one photo I think you can see him way in the background with the van....Also....it is possible that one of those older cadets might just be the GTL......It's been know to happen.

[Garibaldi]

"Name 5 things wrong with this picture"

*bzzt*

1. Hats
2. No safety vests
3. No mixed senior chaperones.
4. No GTL in sight
5. Ummm....

3.  If they are not going to be over night they don't have to be mixed.
4.  No GTL in "Frame"...He might just be off camera....in one photo I think you can see him way in the background with the van....Also....it is possible that one of those older cadets might just be the GTL......It's been know to happen.

I was joking around, based on Eclipse's post about GTL and chaperone. Killing the dead horse softly...

[lordmonar]

"Name 5 things wrong with this picture"

*bzzt*

1. Hats
2. No safety vests
3. No mixed senior chaperones.
4. No GTL in sight
5. Ummm....

3.  If they are not going to be over night they don't have to be mixed.
4.  No GTL in "Frame"...He might just be off camera....in one photo I think you can see him way in the background with the van....Also....it is possible that one of those older cadets might just be the GTL......It's been know to happen.

I was joking around, based on Eclipse's post about GTL and chaperone. Killing the dead horse softly...

There you go....using irony and stuff......you got to the [ironic][/ironic] tags or I'll be lost. 

[Garibaldi]

"Name 5 things wrong with this picture"

*bzzt*

1. Hats
2. No safety vests
3. No mixed senior chaperones.
4. No GTL in sight
5. Ummm....

3.  If they are not going to be over night they don't have to be mixed.
4.  No GTL in "Frame"...He might just be off camera....in one photo I think you can see him way in the background with the van....Also....it is possible that one of those older cadets might just be the GTL......It's been know to happen.

I was joking around, based on Eclipse's post about GTL and chaperone. Killing the dead horse softly...

There you go....using irony and stuff......you got to the [ironic][/ironic] tags or I'll be lost. 

We'll just send that hard-kore  tak-ti-kewl team after you.

[Tim Day]

I agree with pretty much everything, other then your obsession with gaiters, which might
be based on the "Day Gaiter Consortium" I saw on Google, but I would consider them
"equipment" and say that if needed they could certainly be worn >WHEN< needed,
meaning before you wander into the woods, not in the car on the way, at the Denny's,
nor at meetings, etc.

I actually googled Day Gaiter Consortium and was disappointed to come up empty, unlike your normal search redirects. 

Ok, I'll admit I may have over-used gaiters as an example of PPE.

Now as to black boots being "less available" then hiking boots, that's just not true, unless there aren't Walmarts in Virginia.   I was there this weekend looking at very nice black side-zip, combat-height, tactical boots.

We've got Walmarts and we've worn Walmart black boots. They're not suitable for SAR in the terrain in which we work, but I certainly recommend them to my cadets for everything but emergency services use.

[Eclipse]

I seriously considered gin-ing a quick web page but billable issues took my time.

[PHall]

But unlike CAP.... ultimately those magazine pouches are for magazines loaded with real bullets.

When was the last time you had gloves in your glove-box in the car?

Right now. Which ones do you want? The Nomex flight gloves or the exam gloves?

[JeffDG]

But unlike CAP.... ultimately those magazine pouches are for magazines loaded with real bullets.

When was the last time you had gloves in your glove-box in the car?

Right now. Which ones do you want? The Nomex flight gloves or the exam gloves?

Man, tough crowd!

Heck, even when I lived up in the GWN, I didn't keep gloves in the glove box...generally kept them on my hands!

[SarDragon]

I have several pairs of gloves in my car. There's a pair to keep my hands warm while I'm driving, a pair of work gloves for work stuff, and some blue nitriles for ooky stuff.

[EMT-83]

I have several pairs of gloves in my car. There's a pair to keep my hands warm while I'm driving, a pair of work gloves for work stuff, and some blue nitriles for ooky stuff.

But are they in the glove box?