Question regarding equiping my 2016 Kia soul with COMM Equipment.

[SM-Amdenton-KSWG]

I was wondering if any of you have tried to install Radio Equipment in a personal, member owned vehicle to improve response readiness for EMCOMM ops.

I am cross-affiliated with the ARRL (which we have an MOU with) as well as United Methodist Committee on Relief (which I wish we had an MOU with given their reputation within disaster relief); so, I would think that I should be set up for interop with, at least, the ARRL (ARES). I have full band privileges on amateur bands; however, I am not entirely sure how our MOU is set up with the ARRL.

My setup, in theory, would be:
1x Ef Johnson 5300 (member owned; but, would be programmed by our senior communications officer in our unit or, if preferred, unit issued).
1x Motorola Micom-2 (Unit issued)
2x Yaesu ft-2800 (one for NWS WX Monitoring (Receive only), one for interop with ARRL (ARES) or RACES operators)
2x Comet SBB-5 VHF NMO Magmount Antennas (for EF Johnson 5300 and 1 FT-2800)
1x Comet SBB-1 VHF Antenna (for other ft-2800)
Not sure about an HF antenna for use with the Micom-2

My questions are:
How would you mount the radios for easy access?
What HF mobile antenna would be best for ALE connections?

[Fubar]

Greetings! You sound as though you are new with CAP, as such you may not be aware that our national communications leaders treat Amateur Radio like the plague, they avoid it at all costs. You'll want to review both of the regulations concerning our communications program, but there is a small bit in CAPR 100-1 that essentially says you can only use the ham bands if armageddon has occurred and every CAP radio on the planet disappeared after "The Snap" and you have no other alternatives.

That said, your setup sounds pretty solid, although if you're looking to just monitor the NWS I'd go with a simple scanner instead of a second Yaesu. They typically are pre-programmed for WX monitoring, plus you can put in other various amateur radio, CAP, media, and public safety frequencies for greater situational awareness (be sure to check the laws in your state regarding scanner use in a vehicle). Unless you go super-duper fancy APCO25 for your scanner, the cost will be pretty much the same (being a ham, I suspect you know all this, but I'm throwing it out there for other folks who may be less technical).

When it comes to mounting radio equipment in a vehicle, that totally depends on the type of vehicle that you have. If you drive something that's popular with law enforcement there are center consoles readily available to hold all of the come gear you have planned (plus to get fancy, you could add a laptop and the all important cup holder). Havis and Troy are popular vendors in the public safety realm (and they sell at public safety prices).

Personally, I would drop HF from your mobile setup. The size of HF equipment and antennas make them a pain for mobile arrangements, especially daily drivers. CAP has plenty of corporate vehicles and home stations to cover HF needs for our current mission set.

[Slim]

Is there enough real estate in a Kia Soul for all of those radios?  I'm calling it 6 because the Micom 2 is about twice the size of just about all those others.  And then there's the question of having enough roof room to be able to get enough separation among all of those antennas.  And, does your battery/alternator have enough oompf to power all of it?


Don't get me wrong, I've seen people who have done what you're talking about.  But they've done theirs in something like a Tahoe police package, or a Suburban.

[CAP9907]

Until you have an actual use for all of that, I'd say hold off. If you were an Incident Commander or DOK, that would be fine (but excessive).

For a new Unit Comms or ES Officer, you got a really long way to go until you are at that radio point.. heck, I don't even see you having a 101 card let alone ICUT at this point..

~9907

[xyzzy]

From R100-1

11.3. Use of Amateur Radio Service by CAP. CAP members acting in any CAP capacity may not use amateur radio frequencies on behalf of CAP, with narrow exceptions, as provided in para. 11.3.3. below.

11.3.3. CAP members who are signed in to a CAP mission may use amateur radio frequencies to communicate with other licensed amateur operators under limited circumstances, provided that all of the following conditions apply:
11.3.3.1. The CAP member is a licensed amateur radio operator, operating within the privileges of his/her license.
11.3.3.2. The communication is urgently necessary for the immediate safety of life or protection of property where other communication paths are not available.
44 CAPR 100-1 6 APRIL 2016
11.3.3.3. The communication is not internal CAP traffic. Passing internal CAP traffic to other CAP members who are licensed amateurs, in lieu of using CAP equipment and channels, is prohibited.
11.3.3.4. Use of amateur radio is a "last resort" and no other feasible path exists.

So, you should set up your equipment so that the ham radios can be operated by your passenger, who has a ham license and is not a CAP member. You can operate the CAP radio.

[NIN]

How about we get an ID card in the mail before we start buying radio equipment we don't need?

[arajca]

I was wondering if any of you have tried to install Radio Equipment in a personal, member owned vehicle to improve response readiness for EMCOMM ops.

I am cross-affiliated with the ARRL (which we have an MOU with) as well as United Methodist Committee on Relief (which I wish we had an MOU with given their reputation within disaster relief); so, I would think that I should be set up for interop with, at least, the ARRL (ARES). I have full band privileges on amateur bands; however, I am not entirely sure how our MOU is set up with the ARRL.

My setup, in theory, would be:
1x Ef Johnson 5300 (member owned; but, would be programmed by our senior communications officer in our unit or, if preferred, unit issued).
1x Motorola Micom-2 (Unit issued)
2x Yaesu ft-2800 (one for NWS WX Monitoring (Receive only), one for interop with ARRL (ARES) or RACES operators)
2x Comet SBB-5 VHF NMO Magmount Antennas (for EF Johnson 5300 and 1 FT-2800)
1x Comet SBB-1 VHF Antenna (for other ft-2800)
Not sure about an HF antenna for use with the Micom-2

My questions are:
How would you mount the radios for easy access?
What HF mobile antenna would be best for ALE connections?

The Comet antenna has too narrow of a band for CAP. You'll need a broad band antenna. Contact your unit communications officer or wing staff for an appropriate model number.
The Micom 2 is not ALE capable. You will need a tuner/coupler for the antenna. I've seen the standard 108' steel whip on a ball mount with spring work fine.

[capfl]

I have a Ford Explorer and hang my EFJ 5300 off the side of the console. Due to the frequency spread, I use 3 resonant 5/8 wave antennas on a switch, 1 for the lower, 1 for the mid and 1 for the higher. I have a 4th 1/4 wave 2 meter antenna I have connected to a Bao Feng 108 for scanning purposes (not transmitting, not CAP approved) where I scan the repeater and operational frequencies. I use magnetic mounts so if we need a fast set up at the hanger, I attach the mag mount to the hanger door and when raised, places the antenna a nice height in the air. My set up allows me to quickly become a comm station when we fast mobilize. My set up works well and I have talked to aircraft 50 miles away so far and hit a repeater the same distance.

I also carry another antenna that is resonant on the ELT frequency that I attach to a Radio Shack receiver to pick up ELT's only on ELT searches.


I would not recommend mobile HF. As far as I know, HF is hardly used operationally. The antennas are the problem and CAP uses the MICOM mobile antenna set up with the tuning coil. I checked out a CAP Command vehicle at the Orlando conference. (Although I have a warm spot for our legacy HF that we should keep active)

My typical EDC is the 2 meter antenna for my ham work, the CAP repeater antenna with the Bao Feng 108 scanning the CAP frequencies. I attach the 5300 and other antennas as needed so I don't look like a rolling antenna farm.

[chuckmilam]

As far as I know, HF is hardly used operationally.

The pendulum has been swinging back in the opposite direction over the last few years.  HF is very much a part of CAP operations, and will continue to be play a larger part with a focus on scenarios involving loss of commercial communications infrastructure.  Check with your communications staff for specific details. 

[Eclipse]

^That's been DOK's mantra for 20 years.

[chuckmilam]

If you've been at a SAREVAL in the last year or so, there should've been a scenario inject requiring operational use of HF.  Those are on the MSEL for a reason. 

[Eclipse]

Having a scenario on the eval roster doesn't mean anything works or is done successfully.

Those scenarios have been on the list for the same 20 years.

[CAP9907]

We do HF ops daily and pass traffic to other wings on a weekly basis, and we are not a Triblade station..  YMMV

[Eclipse]

We do HF ops daily and pass traffic to other wings on a weekly basis, and we are not a Triblade station..  YMMV

Yes, many / most wings do - from fixed / permanent stations.

Having HF where you need it during an incident seems to be the challenge.

[PHall]

We had three vehicles with HF ALE equipment installed at the California Wing Encampment. Equipment that was never turned on.
HF ALE is a "headquarters" type radio. Rather then have a bunch of equipment bouncing around in field type vehicles it probably should be in the Mobile Mission Kits.
I used HF ALE equipment when I was in the Air Force. HF ALE and SELCAL were the two greatest changes made to the comm suite on the C-141.
No more having to listen to static for hours on end.

[capfl]

Greetings chuckmilam,

Count me in on HF.

At Orlando Wing, the discussion was to increase HF use and get the HF rigs out of the Wing closets and into Squadrons. The US military is increasing HF capability, particularly the Navy which is using digital packets. I intend to have mobile HF capability in the not to distant future. My advice for the questioner was more "one step at a time" type of advice. It's a darn shame the Yaesu 857 is not redbook compliant. I wonder. I would like to have one tested to see if the actual measurements are not compliant with Redbook. I spoke to the Yaesu and ICOM reps at the Orlando Ham Convention and they said their ham units probably meet or exceed the Redbook, but hey don't want to be held to it. Of course the ICOM Marine SSB's do.


The Motorola HF antenna is a horse with the tuning unit. They had a small trailer hitch out to the side to accommodate the mass of it. It was a nice installation.

[Eclipse]

At Orlando Wing,

You have no idea how close to the truth those words are...

the discussion was to increase HF use and get the HF rigs out of the Wing closets and into Squadrons. The US military is increasing HF capability, particularly the Navy which is using digital packets.

Again - 20 years, same song.

If you can get something going, good on 'ye, however set your expectations as a new member properly.

[EMT-83]

The sad part being portable HF operations are easy, once you've practiced a few times. I set up my amateur HF station about a dozen times a year while camping. It takes less than 30 minutes to get on the air with a really decent antenna.

[Slim]

The sad part being portable HF operations are easy, once you've practiced a few times. I set up my amateur HF station about a dozen times a year while camping. It takes less than 30 minutes to get on the air with a really decent antenna.

A previous commander at my unit was also on the wing comm staff, and had one of the MICOM 3 rapid deployment kits (everything needed to run the station in a suitcase, just needed power and someplace to run the antenna) that he'd bring to meetings and set up.  Open the case, plug it in, and run the antenna up one of the flagpoles at the reserve center, and we'd be on the air within minutes.  With that setup, we could check in to one of the Tri Blade nets, as well as GLR and MIWG HF nets with no problems.

[Eclipse]

With that setup, we could check in to one of the Tri Blade nets, as well as GLR and MIWG HF nets with no problems.

Ah yes, the enchanted strains of "no traffic over" from people who rarely show up to missions
and / or don't even have ES ratings

[Slim]

With that setup, we could check in to one of the Tri Blade nets, as well as GLR and MIWG HF nets with no problems.

Ah yes, the enchanted strains of "no traffic over" from people who rarely show up to missions
and / or don't even have ES ratings

Does everything in your life have to be so negative, or did you just wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

[OldGuy]

With that setup, we could check in to one of the Tri Blade nets, as well as GLR and MIWG HF nets with no problems.

Ah yes, the enchanted strains of "no traffic over" from people who rarely show up to missions
and / or don't even have ES ratings

Almost every voice on our local net is also heard on SAREX and mission base traffic.

[Eclipse]

With that setup, we could check in to one of the Tri Blade nets, as well as GLR and MIWG HF nets with no problems.

Ah yes, the enchanted strains of "no traffic over" from people who rarely show up to missions
and / or don't even have ES ratings

Does everything in your life have to be so negative, or did you just wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

Again, facts are neither positive nor negative, they simply are.

When you mischaracterize CAP all you wind up with is disappointment and retention issues.

In this case we have someone who apparently isn't even a member yet preparing to
outfit their vehicle for a non-existent mission use based on the same rhetoric
NHQ-DOK has been publishing for 20 years, with essentially zero change or effect.

When CAP went to narrow band and cut it's capabilities by 1/2 (or worse), the promise was
going to be USAF-funded replacements, much of which sat in the boxes for years at various
wing HQ's, literally going obsolete on the shelf, because Wing DOKs were reticent to
issue it for "reasons", still common to the situation today (considering it's largely the same people).

It wasn't until Katrina exposed CAP's lack of deployed equipment that the USAF stepped in
and pushed wings to issue stuff, and even then it happens in drips and drabs, based largely on
the TOA (vs. actual need), and still in far too many hands that never leave the house.

Why?  Because they were willing to setup the infrastructure at their home so it could be "confidence checked".

The HF situation is far worse, especially since "whoever" chose those ridiculous traffic cone antennas,
which no one who is still intending to procreate would ever put on a POV, so they are largely
relegated to COVs, which are rarely deployed based on need or demographics, and almost always
based on "Tim's mom said it's OK to keep it in her driveway."

The same goes for the HF bases stations.

The undeniable fact, discussed here often, is that, assuming it ever was a "backbone of communications for the
US", CAP hasn't been for at least 20 years, and is never going to be again.  There isn't enough interest and there
isn't enough need.

The directive that every Unit CC have a through-channel via radio to contact Wing and NHQ? About every 6 months
the call goes out, plans are submitted, then nothing is done, assuming they are ever even read. Which doesn't even address the
"why" and "what" the average non-ES unit CC of a cadet-focused Composite squadron needs to be in contact with NHQ
in national communication blackout scenario.

We carry radios with 100 channel spaces and still use CC1 for the majority of use, and take a radio to another wing and
good luck getting it to inter-operate (despite years of directives regarding "national channel plans").  Why?
Well, for starters, the airplanes have limited capabilities, which then shapes the rest of the use.

Digital turns everyone into Donald duck, and good luck using it if you're not in the same room, and let's not
even get started regarding the fiction of encryption.  As if Putin cares about Delta Flight going to chow.

Members can't buy reasonably priced radios like the Baefongs because "someone" "decided" they don't meet the published spec,
you can't load encryption on PORs, again for "reasons", so getting their hot hands >on< a radio for more then the
icut practical is out of the reach of the average member.

CAP comms have their place, and when implemented properly are an effective tool in the bag, but far too often they
are actually a mission impediment and take way too much focus from the actual mission.

The "fix", like everything in CAP, is complex and involves money, politics, money, fiefdoms, money, vendor agreements,
and lots of "If I give you one of my incubators, I'll only have two."

At least if we tell it like it is, people can't say they were sold a bill of goods.

[Eclipse]

And CAP is also in the early stage of going back to Motorola, and from what I understand
the results of testing the first round of the new equipment has been "less then stellar".

[CAP9907]

That'll do it...

~9907