Wing Conference Attendance Verification

Started by Michael M, November 05, 2009, 02:24:06 AM

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Michael M

I have a question about verification of attendance at Wing Conferences.  How are they tracked by a Wing for verification on a Form 24?

I attended my former Wing's conference for a day and didn't participate in the banquet.  There was nobody at the door taking names or an unattended sign in sheet.  I attended several of the breakout sessions, and sign in sheets were not used there either.  I saw one other person from my squadron, but she quit CAP several months ago.  The wing didn't issue certificates or letters of attendance. 

I paid my $30 attendance fee, but there apparently was no checks and balance put in place to verify attendance.

LtCol057

My experience is that it's mainly done on the honor system.

Eclipse

Many conferences issue a certificate of participation, and / or track it at the Wing level with the DA.  Mine has taken to that and its been great (when someone sets out on the task to gather information from the four corners, the stuff starts to pop up).

I have also used photographs of myself at the conference for substantiation.

Frankly, though, most commanders know whether you went or not, or will trust the word of someone who says they saw you.

For the handful of members I had who were looking for credit from "...I think twenty years ago..."  my response was, just wait for the next one.

"That Others May Zoom"

vento

In California we receive a copy of "Wing Conference - Letter of Participation" from CAWG. It contains the name and CID of every participant and it's commonly used as proof of participation.

Hawk200

Good question. When submitting Form 24's, I've just added the dates I attended.

I have a suspicion that National doesn't even check to see if there was a wing conference on those dates.

Maybe a Form 11 sign in would be a good idea. Either that, or figure out a way to actually use those barcodes we put on our ID and 101 cards.

A laptop with a barcode reader somehow interfaced to the tracking in e-service would be nice. Just scan it, and done.

Now all we need are cheap barcode scanners.

Nick

Hey, funny that comes up now -- I just submitted my 24 for Level III a couple weeks ago.  The two conferences I used were a wing conference in 1998 and a national conference in 2000.  I have no real proof except a commander's commendation I received at the conference in '98 and maybe some pictures from '00 (and a personal recount of the events -- not withstanding that it was in San Antonio, so it'd be silly to say I missed a national conference in San Antonio while I was living there).

But it's an excellent point -- there really is no standard or requirement of record.
Nicholas McLarty, Lt Col, CAP
Texas Wing Staff Guy
National Cadet Team Guy Emeritus

Eclipse

Quote from: Hawk200 on November 05, 2009, 02:47:08 AM
I have a suspicion that National doesn't even check to see if there was a wing conference on those dates.

They don't need to - the Wing validates the information when the Wing CC signs the form and passes it upstream.  If the wing doesn't know the when and who of their conferences and memberships, NHQ sure wouldn't know (except for possibly National Conferences).

"That Others May Zoom"

LtCol057

Years ago, if you attended a Commanders Call, your name was included on a participation letter.  But I guess everyone got too busy, haven't seen one of those in probably 10 years or so now.  If I attend something and others from my unit also attend, I'll fill out a unit participation letter and include it in their files. 

PHall

California Wing has the Participation Letters for the last four wing conferences posted on the wing web site.
Your wing may do something similar.

EMT-83

I just went through this, and had a heck of a time with verifying conference attendance for one of my members.

Moving forward, I'm putting a Letter of Participation in everyone's file. My Wing doesn't issue one and neither does NER.

Cecil DP

I've noticed that in the last few years the registrations for some Wing and Region Conferences have been handled by National Headquarters. If they're collecting the money, they have a record of participation.
Michael P. McEleney
LtCol CAP
MSG  USA Retired
GRW#436 Feb 85

Phil Hirons, Jr.

Quote from: Cecil DP on November 05, 2009, 03:02:34 PM
I've noticed that in the last few years the registrations for some Wing and Region Conferences have been handled by National Headquarters. If they're collecting the money, they have a record of participation.

That would be a record of payment, same as a canceled check. Payment does not prove attendance. 

Eclipse

Quote from: phirons on November 05, 2009, 03:39:22 PM
Quote from: Cecil DP on November 05, 2009, 03:02:34 PM
I've noticed that in the last few years the registrations for some Wing and Region Conferences have been handled by National Headquarters. If they're collecting the money, they have a record of participation.

That would be a record of payment, same as a canceled check. Payment does not prove attendance.

True, but I'd accept it, as would most wings.  If they aren't providing proof of attendance, or tracking it themselves, its much better then nothing.  I would also accept a notarized memo as well, however its ultimately the Wing's call, and their conference, so...

"That Others May Zoom"

lordmonar

Of the requirements for Level II, conference attendance is pretty low on my prioirty list.  If an officer says he went to two.....I will usually just take his word for it.

Because let's face it.....what really constitutes "attendance"?

Paying your fee and drinking coffee all day in the lobby is "attending".  There is no definition of what a conference is.  Sure we have a general idea that there are break out sessions, a commander's call, but there is no regulation saying "The conference must be 3 days and include X.Y,Z....members must attend 50% of the sessions"

Some wing hold an SLS, CLS, TLC or other PD training during the conference....do you get credit for "attending the conference" when you spent all day doing PD training.  If you do do people who attend PD training during other times of the year also get conference attendance credit?

Long and short of it....just take their word for 90% of the time...and press on.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Eclipse

As a general note, the conference requirement is another reason to keep your units connected and participating in activities in the Group, Wing, and Region as a matter of course.

Not only does it make them better members to be part of the "whole", but they will get in the habit of
going to these things and watching out for them.

Some Wings only have a conference every other year, miss one and it could be nearly three years until it comes around again.  Be sick that weekend and it might be 6+ years or more to Major, etc.

A lot of CAP is timing, which is why our people should jump at every opportunity they can, especially in their first year or two.  Bank the stuff you need, and you might accidently learn something, too.

"That Others May Zoom"

Майор Хаткевич

+1 on opportunities!

My first conference I drove to, and returned back on a long o-flight! Wooo!

Cecil DP

#16
Quote from: Eclipse on November 05, 2009, 07:24:56 PMSome Wings only have a conference every other year, miss one and it could be nearly three years until it comes around again.  Be sick that weekend and it might be 6+ years or more to Major, etc.

There is no requirement that you wait until your wing has a conference. If your's is biannual, than attend one in a neighboring Wing during the off year.
Michael P. McEleney
LtCol CAP
MSG  USA Retired
GRW#436 Feb 85

Eclipse

Quote from: Cecil DP on November 05, 2009, 09:45:00 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on November 05, 2009, 07:24:56 PM
Some Wings only have a conference every other year, miss one and it could be nearly three years until it comes around again.  Be sick that weekend and it might be 6+ years or more to Major, etc.

There is no requirement that you wait until your wing has a conference. If your's is biannual, than attend one in a neighboring Wing during the off year.

Of course not, but the expectation that members will go out of state for a conference, especially one they probably don't know about, isn't realistic.

"That Others May Zoom"

LtCol057

I know here in NC, we also have a communications conference at a different time from the wing conference. That counts as a conference for the PD people.  We used to have a separate cadet conference in the spring, but that went the way of 25 cent gasoline. 

lordmonar

Quote from: LtCol057 on November 05, 2009, 11:46:33 PM
I know here in NC, we also have a communications conference at a different time from the wing conference. That counts as a conference for the PD people.  We used to have a separate cadet conference in the spring, but that went the way of 25 cent gasoline.

And that goes back to my original posting of "there is no definition" of what a conference is.  If you can go to the conference and spend the entire time except the banquet in an SLS class...should not all SLS classes be considered conferences.

If a gathering of the comm officers is a "conference".....would not the wing commander's call/staff meeting be a "Staff Conference" and count?

Even if we nail down "this is a conference and this is not"  How do we define attendance?  There are numerous stories of people signing into the conference on Friday night and then no one would see them again until the banquet on Saturday.  Then there are the guys who just troll the lobby all day.

My whole problem is that the requirment to attend the conferences is just so we get people to attend the conferences.  Instead of forcing wings to put on conferences that made their people want to attend the threw up an arbitrary requirement to attend.

I would buy off on the "see how it's done else where" argument if we did not have RSC and NSC requirments and if we were also required to attend regional and national conferences for Level IV and V.

[/rant]

So.....just take their word for it.  It's not that important......spend your time making them prove they really know their assigned jobs instead of digging up proof that they attended a conference back when they were a cadet or even last year.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

EMT-83

It may be more than you taking the guy's word on whether he attended a conference. I had Wing reject a Level 3 application because there was no documentation that he attended a regional conference.

I was at the conference with him, so I know he was there. As always, if it isn't written down, it didn't happen.

RiverAux

Personally, I have not been impressed with the level of training given at the conferences in our Wing (except for those sessions I've been in charge of  >:D ) and think that this particular PD requirement probably could be beefed up some, though I'm not sure how.   

Back to the topic, I believe we have had attendence rosters given back to the squadrons after the meeting and presumably put in the right peoples' files. 

Hawk200

I've always thought that a senior should be able to use encampment staff experience as a sub for a conference.

You're there longer, you have a lot more time to get an idea of what your fellow staff members are considering, work on ideas together during the encampment, and network.

As to proof, an MSA is pretty convincing. I received them for the encampments I attended.

Michael M

Thanks to all that provided input.  I will talk to my Commander next meeting about his policy, and I will communicate with my former Wing's administrator to see what I can get for proof.

I just want to be honest on my Level III entries, and to be able to back it up with a document.