Tac vest ?

[Walkman]

So I'm checking out all these MOLLE vests and all of a sudden it occurred to me that if you are wearing a tac vest, not much, if any, of the safety orange vest is going to be seen. If you wear the orange over the tac vest, then you can't get to your gear as easily.

Am I on to something or just thinking weird?

[Eeyore]

That is the reason that I sold my TAC vest to a cadet. The orange vest will either not be visible, which goes against the regs or the orange vest makes the TAC vest pretty useless.

Now I go with the pistol belt, H harness and butt pack. I can wear the orange vest and have it visible and everything I need is either in the butt pack (stuff that I don't use as often) or in a utility pouch on the belt. It's not as hot either.

[Eclipse]

Am I on to something or just thinking weird?

Neither, but at least you noticed.

Its been an ongoing topic of discussion, especially for people who wear black or dark colored vests.

At a minimum I would recommend adding reflectorized elements, but a lot of members are moving away form the TAC vests for all but the most aggressive situations towards orange colored gear or vests.

I still say the sarmed's are the way to go for 99% of our missions.  Since my posting below,
I have used this for just about everything a GTM/UDF guy is gonna do with no issues.

I can't remember the last time I strapped into the tac vest, and frankly am starting to look around for an eLBV again as it was much better suited to the task.  I had one I dropped $25 on from eBay, it served my actively for several years including the "big one" and then I sold it when someone who was moving basically gave me the tac vest.

I miss my eLBV.   

Here's a good place to get a great vest:

http://tinyurl.com/yjt8z5

I took off the medic patch, replaced it with Velcro and added some nametapes:


I can vouch for the quality and markings noted are in places you can hardly see, or wouldn't care (i.e. inside the vest).

I intend to use this for UDF, traffic details, and lower-impact days. 


Field days / bivouavcs, etc.,  will likely see me using my new TAC vest with the retro tape:


and lighted shoulders:  http://group22.net/files/other/vest/vest.wmv

with a high-vis orange or green vest underneath:

http://group22.net/files/other/vest.jpg

The SARMED-type vests worked very well in the field during Katrina, and are much more comfortable if you are getting in and out of a vehicle a lot, the trade-off is no ALICE attachments and limited storage.


Note:  John Desmaris has seen this vest at NESA and indicated that he liked the tac vests with the tapes affixed, commenting that it >should< be the standard, because the web gear, etc, that many of us have worn for years has too many strings and loose-hanging parts to be good in heavy field.

I prefer a lime-green vest, mainly because I think they are higher-vis, but with that said, I fully acknowledge that the vest is now a uniform item and it could be an issue both liability-wise and reg-wise.  I always carry a nice orange vest as well, and, while the ILWG DOS has indicated on many occasions that as long as its high-vis, its acceptable, I would not argue with anyone who made an issue of it.  Regs are regs.

Getting this post back on track...

Below are photographs from this weekend - first time out with the new tac vest.

There is no question, that while mine w/ the stripes is visible, the blaze orange is far superior, especially from the air in heavy canopy or brush.

Note, long since this thread I have switched to color-matched tapes, black on orange and white on black, both say "Civil Air Patrol".

[Always Ready]

Here's my remedy...wear the vest over your tac vest, backpack, LBE, or whatever else you are carrying. This makes the orange vest the most outerlayer no matter what you are wearing or carrying. This way you are visible from all sides. As a GTL/FLS, I require all of my GTMs/FLMs wear it in this manner. I don't care if they are only wearing a small camelbak. The entire vest must be as fully visible as possible at all times *IMHO*.

[Eclipse]

Here's my remedy...wear the vest over your tac vest, backpack, LBE, or whatever else you are carrying. This makes the orange vest the most outerlayer no matter what you are wearing or carrying. This way you are visible from all sides. As a GTL/FLS, I require all of my GTMs/FLMs wear it in this manner. I don't care if they are only wearing a small camelbak. The entire vest must be as fully visible as possible at all times *IMHO*.

Thankfully that's just one opinion, not supported by any regulations.

You'd look ridiculous and have a PITA getting to your toys - over a camelback, whatever, over a TAC vest?  Come on.

[BrandonKea]

Here's my remedy...wear the vest over your tac vest, backpack, LBE, or whatever else you are carrying. This makes the orange vest the most outerlayer no matter what you are wearing or carrying. This way you are visible from all sides. As a GTL/FLS, I require all of my GTMs/FLMs wear it in this manner. I don't care if they are only wearing a small camelbak. The entire vest must be as fully visible as possible at all times *IMHO*.

Thankfully that's just one opinion, not supported by any regulations.

You'd look ridiculous and have a PITA getting to your toys - over a camelback, whatever, over a TAC vest?  Come on.

What exactly do the regulations say?

Note 10 in Figure 2-17 and Table 2-3 of  CAPM 39-1 CAP Uniform Manual
10. Safety vest must be worn when participating in Ground Team activities.

How is that not supported by the regs?

[Always Ready]

Here's my remedy...wear the vest over your tac vest, backpack, LBE, or whatever else you are carrying. This makes the orange vest the most outerlayer no matter what you are wearing or carrying. This way you are visible from all sides. As a GTL/FLS, I require all of my GTMs/FLMs wear it in this manner. I don't care if they are only wearing a small camelbak. The entire vest must be as fully visible as possible at all times *IMHO*.

Thankfully that's just one opinion, not supported by any regulations.

You'd look ridiculous and have a PITA getting to your toys - over a camelback, whatever, over a TAC vest?  Come on.

Please show me where it's not supported by the regs...

I've been doing it for four years now. No complaints from anyone yet. The main reason I require it is because I've known several people get hurt (outside of CAP...mostly LE/Rescue types) because someone couldn't see them. They were wearing too much gear over their reflective vests/coats.

To put it in our terms, would you like to explain to Cadet Snuffy's parents that he got hit by a car because his backpack or his tacticool vest was covering the orange reflective vest? I wouldn't. The cool/look factor gets pushed to the wayside when it comes to safety.

It also depends on what type of orange vest you use. If you are using something like this:

I could see how that could be a PITA. But all you have to do is un-zip and you get your gear. It's not that difficult.

[Airrace]

I perfer the Hydra-Sar Vest.


The vest is packed with features designed for SAR personnel. The front features 3 zip 5"x8" pockets, 2 of them with reflectives. The upper left radio holder will hold any type of radio. The upper right and lower left holders will hold a FRS, a GPS, or can be used as just a pocket for spare batteries, compass, etc. The collar is foam-lined for comfort, with reflectives on each side. Built-in clips hold the hydration hose with bite valve, mesh provides cool comfort. The back pack portion has a separate sleeve for the included 70oz Bladder, and will hold approximately 1170cu in of gear (13x18x6).

You can see a picture of the vest at this link:
http://www.searchgear.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=177

[alamrcn]

That's a pretty nice vest/pack hybrid. Wish it had the MOLLE loops though. Are there attachments for a utility belt around the bottom? I couldn't quite see for sure from the photos.

The price make me bawk a bit... $124 is a heavy investment for something new and unique. I'd like to touchy-feely one before whipping out the Visa.

[Jerry Jacobs]

This is the piece of gear I've been drooling over for some weeks;

http://www.truenorthgear.com/product_detail.php?p_id=212
It has the orange and reflective tape so you don't need a reflective vest and it doesn't cover up your torso like other equipment out there.

[isuhawkeye]

^^^ Love the true north gear. 

That pack has lots of additions to it.  It can even be worn as two thigh rigs.
http://www.halbrookassociates.com/halbrook_associatescom/2008/06/transformer-ser.html
http://www.halbrookassociates.com/halbrook_associatescom/2008/05/true-north-tran.html