PAWG the Black eye of CAP

[CAPcadet902]

IF you think you have the most screwed up wing you should transfer into PAWG. Lets talk about a lack of communication between members. No direction from wing officers to their troops. SAREX's that are last minute operations. The Rangers vs general members.

[SarDragon]

Well, aren't you Mr Cheerful!

Do you really think you are doing CAP, PAWG, and yourself any good by coming on here with your rant? It's a really adult thing you've done. Not!

Why don't you grow up a little bit, and come back in a few months with a better attitude.

[MSG Mac]

These are matters you should address through your chain of command or even directly to the commander of whatever echelon you're referring to.

[fyrfitrmedic]

IF you think you have the most screwed up wing you should transfer into PAWG. Lets talk about a lack of communication between members. No direction from wing officers to their troops. SAREX's that are last minute operations. The Rangers vs general members.

Wow.


No popcorn for me; could someone pass me a couple of Triscuits please?

[jks19714]

Good grief.  Someone really has their knickers in a twist (do they still wear knickers?  ).

If it is really that bad, the door swings both ways (somehing about doors and the striking of various parts of the anatomy comes to mind as well).

You're going to find that people and organizations are not perfect and don't always have your wishes in mind. 

john

PS  Are there any gruntled people here? I keep finding the other kind for some reason. 

[manfredvonrichthofen]

IF you think you have the most screwed up wing you should transfer into PAWG. Lets talk about a lack of communication between members. No direction from wing officers to their troops. SAREX's that are last minute operations. The Rangers vs general members.

If you think there is such a large problem in your wing try to figure out where the problem is and where it starts and ends. Chances are that it isn't your wing command, especially not as a whole. About 99% of the time those who make the time for CAP and try so hard to get to the top of the wing are dedicated enough that they do anything and everything that they can for their wing. Remember, they are at the top of the wing for a reason, this is a volunteer organization, it's not like they do it by sliding through the cracks, they have performed well, and they understand how a volunteer organization is motivated. There may be something that you can do to help fix the issue. You just have to be much more professional than you were here. Always remember, as a cadet you do not see everything at the top as you don't have the responsibility to understand it and there are senior members that take care of the things that come from wing, and the things that need to go to wing.

Biggest thing, always remain professional.

[DC]

Isn't this the same guy that was trumpeting PAWG and Hawk Mountain as the best of the best of the best in another thread? Talk about irony...

[Mikecookis@yahoo.com]

Maybe I dont get it, but it seems that the 'select few' are allowed to bash anoter CAP talker, but if anyone else did it than they would get booted or banned.  What gives?

If the guy is frustrated with te Wing then let him vent and  share. Many other have done the same.  I guess hes not one of the coold kids on the forum.

[HGjunkie]

Maybe I dont get it, but it seems that the 'select few' are allowed to bash anoter CAP talker, but if anyone else did it than they would get booted or banned.  What gives?

Long term members get brownie points.

[Major Lord]

We have a Wing in Pennsylvania? Wait, are you sure about this? 

So if PA is the "black eye" of CAP, CAWG gets dibs on being the "ovarian cysts" of CAP. DC is definitely the hemorrhoids of CAP, and Florida is most certainly the fungal infection of CAP. Alabama is probably the urinary tract infection of CAP.....

Major Lord

[jks19714]

So if PA is the "black eye" of CAP, CAWG gets dibs on being the "ovarian cysts" of CAP. DC is definitely the hemorrhoids of CAP, and Florida is most certainly the fungal infection of CAP. Alabama is probably the urinary tract infection of CAP.....

Major Lord

Too much information!   

[cap235629]

We have a Wing in Pennsylvania? Wait, are you sure about this? 

So if PA is the "black eye" of CAP, CAWG gets dibs on being the "ovarian cysts" of CAP. DC is definitely the hemorrhoids of CAP, and Florida is most certainly the fungal infection of CAP. Alabama is probably the urinary tract infection of CAP.....

Major Lord

and Arkansas is the heart and soul!!!!!!!!!!!

[Major Lord]

We have a Wing in Pennsylvania? Wait, are you sure about this? 

So if PA is the "black eye" of CAP, CAWG gets dibs on being the "ovarian cysts" of CAP. DC is definitely the hemorrhoids of CAP, and Florida is most certainly the fungal infection of CAP. Alabama is probably the urinary tract infection of CAP.....

Major Lord

and Arkansas is the heart and soul!!!!!!!!!!!

No, no, no! That's not how the game is played and you can't claim an uninjured or invisible part of the body!  Since you claimed the heart first, I will give Arkansas constructive credit for being the "Regurgitating Mitral Valve" of CAP....you can't have the whole heart, Virginia is for Lovers, and they took dibs on the "arrhythmic atrial node and left ventricle" of CAP. Its already in their recruiting literature.

Major Lord
CAP/USAF  Anatomy and Physiology Nomenclature Directorate

[HGjunkie]

and Arkansas is the heart and soul!!!!!!!!!!!

[lordmonar]

So......that make Nevada the Spastic Colon! 

[jks19714]

Our legislators seem to find plenty of time for silly bills -- perhaps a state disease is the next "big thing".

At this point, I could probably name a venereal disease as belonging to the District of Columbia, but I will attempt to resist the urge... 

john

[Eclipse]

Maybe I dont get it, but it seems that the 'select few' are allowed to bash anoter CAP talker, but if anyone else did it than they would get booted or banned.  What gives?

If the guy is frustrated with te Wing then let him vent and  share. Many other have done the same.  I guess hes not one of the coold kids on the forum.

Anonymously bashing a anything on this board gets the respect it deserves.  Want to talk specifics, cite evidence, and bring more than angst and
perhaps even youthful spirit to the table?  Don't bother.

There is no wing without "issues", and some are more visible because of their hosting high-profile activities, but just saying "poo-poo" on x-wing
speaks as much for the poster as any problems they may be having.

That's what Facebook is for - make a group that says you don't like something, and then the adults can ignore it.

[Spaceman3750]

That's what Facebook is for - make a group that says you don't like something, and then the adults can ignore it.

Maybe the adults that are ignoring it should be taking a step back and asking themselves "Even though he said it badly, does he have a point? WHY does he and others hate X?" It's really too bad that you're writing people off that quickly - I'm sure there are many cadets that have something valuable to say but don't know how to say it and get ignored as a result.

[Eclipse]

Time to read what I said without filter...

[commando1]

IF you think you have the most screwed up wing you should transfer into PAWG. Lets talk about a lack of communication between members. No direction from wing officers to their troops. SAREX's that are last minute operations. The Rangers vs general members.

What exactly seems to be your issue? Have you ever been in another wing? You mention wing officers not communicating to the "troops." Who exactly are you referring to as troops? Cadets? Squadron commanders? You also mention "the Rangers." I am assuming you mean the Hawk Mountain graduates. It seems to me you are simply venting frustration. Have you talked directly to the problem people? If you are having trouble with "the Rangers" talk to your chain of command. If it is a specific cadet who is a "Ranger" than let your commander know exactly what the issue is. Your SAREX's may not be last minute. Have you ever considered how much planning actually goes into a complete SAREX? It is not one person calling everybody with a date and time. There are months of planning involved and you insult your SAREX planners by saying this in a public forum. 

[octavian]

Did you ever think that, as a cadet, not everything is going to be revealed to you?  What last minute SAREX are you referring to?  The last one we had here in PAWG Group 3(that'd be the group your squadron is in) was planned well in advance. 

[Maverick925]

I'm not mentioning my name, but I'm a former member of PAWG.  I had some major issues with the command in my squadron (again, I'm not mentioning which squadron).  Now, protocol would be if you have a problem within the squadron chain of command, to go to group.  However, the group and squadron commanders hated eachother.  So now, common sense would say to go to wing.  The squadron and wing commanders were best friends, so that was out.  I could have gone to NER, but that would havemarked me for the rest of my days in CAP.  I went inactive for several months, until a friend in another local wing convinced me to go down there.  Within a couple months of going down there, I was fully qualified as a mission scanner - something that could not have happened in PAWG due to the cliquish nature of the units that have pilots/planes.  I have also found myself very drawn to the ES mission.  Again, something that could not have happened in PAWG because more or less in my experience, if you didn't do HMRS, you were nothing. 

Would staying in PAWG have been easier and cheaper?  Yes.  But in my new wing, I get something that I never got in PAWG; a feeling of being wanted and valued.

From someone who has been in CAP for 13 years, take it from me.  I know CAP is a political organization.  PAWG is absolutely nothing but politics, and if you aren't in the commander's clique, you can't get squat.

Signed,

A 13 year veteran of Civil Air Patrol

[fyrfitrmedic]

 The charming young gentleperson who started this thread decided to send me a message privately disparaging my home unit.

How utterly charming.

[CAPcadet902]

Did you ever think that, as a cadet, not everything is going to be revealed to you?  What last minute SAREX are you referring to?  The last one we had here in PAWG Group 3(that'd be the group your squadron is in) was planned well in advance.

This may be somewhat true if you call copy and pasting well planned. Also it was poorly executed. Lack of communication to members and not publicly advertising it to PAWG's general population who need the training. It's time to reform. All local wings are way ahead of us. When you go to a wing sarex and the people running the event are more concerned about the coffee and doughnuts than the training of us cadets. There is something seriously wrong.

[NCRblues]

It seems more and more, that when members (cadets or seniors) get frustrated with the system (or lack of, if you think that way) they come here to vent.

Oh well, sometimes the best thing to do is ignore them 

[cap235629]

When you go to a wing sarex and the people running the event are more concerned about the coffee and doughnuts than the training of us cadets. There is something seriously wrong.

What is wrong is that you expect to get training at a SAREX.  Training is the responsibility of your home unit.  You go to a SAREX to EXERCISE the skills you have obtained.  If you are relying on SAREX's to get trained, YOU are doing it wrong.

[FW]

I'm not mentioning my name, but I'm a former member of PAWG.  I had some major issues with the command in my squadron (again, I'm not mentioning which squadron).  Now, protocol would be if you have a problem within the squadron chain of command, to go to group.  However, the group and squadron commanders hated eachother.  So now, common sense would say to go to wing.  The squadron and wing commanders were best friends, so that was out.  I could have gone to NER, but that would havemarked me for the rest of my days in CAP.  I went inactive for several months, until a friend in another local wing convinced me to go down there.  Within a couple months of going down there, I was fully qualified as a mission scanner - something that could not have happened in PAWG due to the cliquish nature of the units that have pilots/planes.  I have also found myself very drawn to the ES mission.  Again, something that could not have happened in PAWG because more or less in my experience, if you didn't do HMRS, you were nothing. 

Would staying in PAWG have been easier and cheaper?  Yes.  But in my new wing, I get something that I never got in PAWG; a feeling of being wanted and valued.

From someone who has been in CAP for 13 years, take it from me.  I know CAP is a political organization.  PAWG is absolutely nothing but politics, and if you aren't in the commander's clique, you can't get squat.

Signed,

A 13 year veteran of Civil Air Patrol

As a 35 year "veteran" of Civil Air Patrol (27 in PAWG), all I can say is "Bunk"  For the few members I know of who transferred to DEWG from PAWG in the last 10 years, most did so because of reasons other than "politics".  However, what you wish to rant about is your privilege.

Did you ever think that, as a cadet, not everything is going to be revealed to you?  What last minute SAREX are you referring to?  The last one we had here in PAWG Group 3(that'd be the group your squadron is in) was planned well in advance.

This may be somewhat true if you call copy and pasting well planned. Also it was poorly executed. Lack of communication to members and not publicly advertising it to PAWG's general population who need the training. It's time to reform. All local wings are way ahead of us. When you go to a wing sarex and the people running the event are more concerned about the coffee and doughnuts than the training of us cadets. There is something seriously wrong.

Isn't that what SAREX's are all about??? 

I find it ironic.  WIWAC, I thought I could do better than the seniors in my squadron also.  So much for the wisdom of a 15 year old cadet...

[fyrfitrmedic]

When you go to a wing sarex and the people running the event are more concerned about the coffee and doughnuts than the training of us cadets. There is something seriously wrong.

What is wrong is that you expect to get training at a SAREX.  Training is the responsibility of your home unit.  You go to a SAREX to EXERCISE the skills you have obtained.  If you are relying on SAREX's to get trained, YOU are doing it wrong.

+1

Training at SAREXs should, IMHO, be OJT for those serving in trainee positions or something done to efficiently fill downtime between tasks, it is NOT the raison d'etre.

[lordmonar]

This may be somewhat true if you call copy and pasting well planned.

If it ain't broke don't fix it

Also it was poorly executed.

They usually are...seeing as it is a learning experience for most people involved.

Lack of communication to members and not publicly advertising it to PAWG's general population who need the training.

Did you commander know about it?  How did you know about it?  The wing/group DO does not have to advertise it to the general membership...he only needs to tell the subordinate commanders

It's time to reform.

What do you suggest?

All local wings are way ahead of us.

That is kind of an oxymoron....."local" wings?  Now I have to ask you about your qualifications to make that statement.  How many other wing SAREXs have you attended?  What qualifications do you bring to the table that makes you a credible judge of your or any wing's readiness and effectiveness?

When you go to a wing sarex and the people running the event are more concerned about the coffee and doughnuts than the training of us cadets. There is something seriously wrong.

The people running the event.....called the IC, OSC, and PSC are not concerned with anyones training.....it is not their job.  Training is the job of you local squadron commander.  The people running event are......running the event. 

[Al Sayre]

The hardest part of a SAREX is finding a balance between making it realistic and letting everyone exercise their skills. 

Real life missing aircraft missions are generally pretty boring affairs.  If you don't start with an ELT report, your GT's may spend several hours sitting around the hangar or in the van in the middle of nowhere simply because you have no idea where along the 300 mile route that you are searching they may be needed, and the best thing you can do is preposition them somewhere in the middle based on your best guess.  Aircraft may have to sit on the ramp until 1200-1300 because the fog or ceiling hasn't lifted enough to give you legal clearance to fly at 1000'agl for your search patterns.  So consequently, about the only thing that may happen for several hours is that the planning section plays with their maps, while the MSA's take phone tips, and the IC talks to other search agencies and gives interviews to the local newspapers.  Coffee and Donuts become the most important topic simply because there isn't much else you can do.  Once ceilings permit flying, aircraft leave for ~3 hours at a time and then come back and go out again.  Meanwhile planning section marks up their maps and Comm unit does check ins and everyone else answers phones, drinks coffee and waits.  Rinse and repeat.

If the mission starts with an ELT report, it is usually over pretty quickly.  One aircraft and maybe a GT but (more likely local LEO's) will handle it.

So now, what was the problem with your SAREX?

[elipod]

Awww c'mon. I can't believe this kid. You know...When I see him at our cadet conference in a few weeks, he just may get a talking to.

We all know CAP doesn't always run smoothly but hey, we do try our best. Right? At least some of us I guess. One point of the CAP Program, is to have fun. And if all we can do is badmouth each other, then thats not going to promote good moral...

Make an effort to be positive, and you may be surprised just how far that gets you!

[CAPSGT]

I think this topic overstayed it's welcome pretty much around post 1.  Let's just put it out of it's misery and keep the name-specific (wing-specific) rants off the board.  Anonymous "hypotheticals" based on reality are fine by the membership code of conduct, but unit specific bashing is not.