CPR First aid training vs Mountin survival training

[desert rat]

What would most of you rather learn?   As an instructor for both I have found people only wanting first aid CPR so they can wear the patch on the uniform.  I would personally like to see people receiving the Mountin survival course because it covers CPR First aid as wll, but much more.

[Eclipse]

First Aid.

CPR is no longer required by CAP (though >IS< valuable and important as a skill).

Mountain survival has little use for the majority of our members.

[Jolt]

Is one course a lot more expensive than the other?

[desert rat]

It all depends who teaches it.  I would teach it for free, but some have higher prices for wilderness over cpr first aid.

[Jolt]

I don't know why any squadron would turn that down.  It sounds like a great offer, sir.

[swya]

first aid and mountain survival are both very useful as jolt has already said and that is why hawk mountain and many encampments teach it

[flyerthom]

What would most of you rather learn?   As an instructor for both I have found people only wanting first aid CPR so they can wear the patch on the uniform.  I would personally like to see people receiving the Mountin survival course because it covers CPR First aid as wll, but much more.

Which will get more members trained quickest? Or which has the most overall value? CPR and first aid can be done quicker and can wet the thirst for further knowledge. In addition, we have a lot of older seniors who aren't going hiking in the forest or desert but may just have issuses at the meeting. Something quick as a first step may lead to further commitment.

[swya]

That is true but the first aid course is 5-6 hours long whereas the wilderness first aid is 8 hours or more. What i want to know is which one is easier for cadets to understand or withstand(less graphic photos or not as difficult vocabulary)

[desert rat]

I think the material can be disturbing for some because the graphic videos of trauma.  I do think it is great training for all flight crews that may find themselves in a bad situation.  It is great for ground teams that want more credibility.

[Pylon]

That is true but the first aid course is 5-6 hours long whereas the wilderness first aid is 8 hours or more. What i want to know is which one is easier for cadets to understand or withstand(less graphic photos or not as difficult vocabulary)

1)  If the cadets are on the ground team, the graphic photos shouldn't be an issue.  While SMs and GTLs do all they can, I'm sure, to shield cadets from the realities of a distress mission find, they shouldn't be shielded from training for that reason.  Or they can find another capacity to participate actively in ES and support the mission.

2)  I wouldn't worry too much about the vocabulary between those two courses.  Our cadets are mostly middle and high schoolers and high school graduates.   They should be able to handle either course.

[swya]

well i know some cadets that may have problems(not meaning to cause any trouble, and targeting no one in particular)

[Pylon]

well i know some cadets that are iliterate(not meaning to cause any trouble, and targeting no one in particular)

That's impossible.  They wouldn't be able to read the textbooks, or take achievement tests, so they wouldn't promote -- therefore, they would weed themselves out of the program fairly quickly.  CAP is not a program to help wayward kids, or to teach kids to read, or the like.  There are hundreds of youth programs out there for things like that.

If that were really the case, one wouldn't need to be worrying about whether to offer standard CPR and First Aid versus Mountain First Aid.   

[swya]

well lets just say that these kids have the tests read to them but i dont want insult anyone so i dont want to discuss this anymore

[IronRangerMN]

MOUNTAIN TRAINING! Ill take the mountain training, not that its too much of an advatage when we are based in northern/central minnesota, but hey, dont limit urself.  I mean jeez, climbing with odd rope and harnesses and clips aint just for mountains. We do have rock cliffs up by superior lake, and pits of iron ore around here, plus i only kno the bowline knott rite now.

[SARMedTech]

Theres a company out west (if you want to know who they are PM me) that teaches wilderness first aide, wilderness first responder and wilderness EMT for those that are already EMTs. The program is touted as one of the best in the nation. I hope to take it myself sometime in the coming year or early next year. One caveat...the fitness level needed for the courses this company offers is not for the weak of heart. Do your crunches, pullups and running before you get there. Pardon the pun, but these guys are serious as a heart attack.

Let me know if you would like to know more.

[ELTHunter]

Although regs no longer require CPR training, I support all Ground Team members taking it even if it is not for certification.  Meaning, use the material and teach the techniques, just don't shell out all the money to the Red Cross.

I have had CPR and Basic First Aid many times for both work and CAP.  I have also had Wilderness First Aid.  Other than the hands on blood pressure and patient assessment, I found I already knew most of the WFA.  I would encourage it though for GTL's at least.

The problem with non-medical types taking these classes is that unless you use these skills often, it is easier to forget them.

[Stonewall]

Seeing that First Aid training is required for GTM qualificaitons and Mountain training isn't, I'd suggest making first aid training/certification a priority.

For me in FL, Mountain Training would be impossible unless I drove 7 or 8 hours away to Norther Carolina or Georgia.

[Chris Jacobs]

I would do the first aid first because it is a requirement.  But why not do both.  I know my squadron for a while was trying to do training once a month.  One month we did some first aid and the next we did some survival training (not mountain, but very close, it was freezing and we were half way up a mountain).

[SARMedTech]

Although regs no longer require CPR training, I support all Ground Team members taking it even if it is not for certification.  Meaning, use the material and teach the techniques, just don't shell out all the money to the Red Cross.

I have had CPR and Basic First Aid many times for both work and CAP.  I have also had Wilderness First Aid.  Other than the hands on blood pressure and patient assessment, I found I already knew most of the WFA.  I would encourage it though for GTL's at least.

The problem with non-medical types taking these classes is that unless you use these skills often, it is easier to forget them.

Maybe you could go forward and take WFR (wilderness first responder) from a group like the Wilderness Medicine Training Center. I intend to go to them to take my Wilderness EMT. I think its important for all of those of us who are doing SAR work to get up to at least the first responder level. When a true medical situtation presents itself, first responders can be of great assistance as extra hands, extra assessors for EMTs and Medics. Right now, if CAP truly was first on scene to a Mass Casualty Incident (MCI) our resources and the abilities of our medical folks would be overwhelmed. With CAPs growing HLS tasks, border patrol, etc, we could be called on to assist with virtually anything at anytime as our preparedness continues to grow.

[ELTHunter]

Maybe you could go forward and take WFR (wilderness first responder) from a group like the Wilderness Medicine Training Center.

I would like too, but I couldn't justify spending the money.  I think it was around $800 from the local community collage.  They have financial aid available, but you were only eligible for it if the class was a requirement of your paying job.

[SARMedTech]

It can be pricey, and I wouldnt necessarily take it from the local college. There are lots of programs with what are probably more qualified instructors with both EMS and SAR backgrounds. Community college EMS programs are notoriously outdated and tend to lean pretty heavily on "education by power point and slides." Just my two cents.