Identifying Mission Staff positions

Started by Hawk200, November 29, 2006, 07:24:01 PM

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Hawk200

I'm a newly appointed ES officer for my unit (only three weeks!) and got asked a question (which of course, I don't know the answer to yet) about identifying mission staff at a site.

How do you folks out there do it? Do you wear ID tags (i'm talking like the little plastic holder with a snap clip) or does anybody use an armband? This is a horse of a different color to me, and I'm am completely in the dark. Is it really even necessary to identify the various positions?

Just wondering.. Thanks for any help.


TankerT

There are lots of ways.  Most common on missions I go to are the different areas are labled with signs posted on walls and doors.  (I.E "Air Operations"... etc...)

Hint... the Communications Unit Leader and Mission Radio Operators are probably the guys sitting by all the radios...  ;)


/Insert Snappy Comment Here

Hawk200

Quote from: TankerT on November 29, 2006, 07:27:35 PM
There are lots of ways.  Most common on missions I go to are the different areas are labled with signs posted on walls and doors.  (I.E "Air Operations"... etc...)

Hint... the Communications Unit Leader and Mission Radio Operators are probably the guys sitting by all the radios...  ;)



I imagine that's kind of a given. However, does the Incident Commander really need an ID badge, or an armband saying who he is?

SJFedor

Welcome to the party, I just got blessed with becoming the ES and ops officer myself.

I've seen it a bunch of different ways. PA Wing HQ has an ops room with different cubbys for different mission staff officers, I've seen some wear ID tags or armbands or hats with the position on it, and I've seen others not do anything except answer when someone goes "Who's the [insert staff position here]"

All depends on how well you know the people you work with, how big the mission is, etc.

Another hint to go with the CUL/MRO comment. The AOBD is the one holding the airplane keys, but doesn't look like he's gonna go flying. The PSC is buried behind a mountain of paperwork, the OSC is with the IC because he's also an IC3*, and the IC is wondering how he got talked into wasting his Saturday by sitting at the end of a table and watching everyone else have fun.

Steven Fedor, NREMT-P
Master Ambulance Driver
Former Capt, MP, MCPE, MO, MS, GTL, and various other 3-and-4 letter combinations
NESA MAS Instructor, 2008-2010 (#479)

TankerT

Quote from: Hawk200 on November 29, 2006, 07:34:45 PM
I imagine that's kind of a given. However, does the Incident Commander really need an ID badge, or an armband saying who he is?

No.  There is normally a designated office labled "IC" or "Command Post" or something similar.  Plus, many missions have a board up that lists the key staff.

/Insert Snappy Comment Here

ELTHunter

The IC is the guy in his undershorts, sitting at his kitchen table at 0300 :)
Maj. Tim Waddell, CAP
SER-TN-170
Deputy Commander of Cadets
Emergency Services Officer

TankerT

Quote from: ELThunter on November 29, 2006, 08:05:00 PM
The IC is the guy in his undershorts, sitting at his kitchen table at 0300 :)

Actually, for most of our missions (I.E. 1am phone calls for an ELT in some guy's garage) this is pretty much spot on.

/Insert Snappy Comment Here

DNall

Quote from: TankerT on November 29, 2006, 08:08:11 PM
Quote from: ELThunter on November 29, 2006, 08:05:00 PM
The IC is the guy in his undershorts, sitting at his kitchen table at 0300 :)

Actually, for most of our missions (I.E. 1am phone calls for an ELT in some guy's garage) this is pretty much spot on.
Yup.

I'd prefer NOT to have Vests or clip on IDs or armbands, all that just looks stupid, and frankly anyone who doesn't know what position you're in doesn't need to be disturbing you. Members go to check-in & are then told where to go till the branch director can come touch base with them, the rest of the staff should be posted & should be part of their brief. Non-members (media) belong to the PIO & he should be heading them off before they have a chance to get into the ops area, much less bugging the staff.

The designated areas work well if they've been thought thru in the basis of needs for a large mission & not your typical ELT gig.

By the way, the upcoming IC badge should help you out with this one, and there's proposals to cover AOBD & GBD, to integrate PSC in the personnel badge & specialty track, same w/ PIO/PA, Comm, etc I don't know what's going to stick, but the IC badge looks like it's pretty set.

TankerT

I don't think the new badges don't help here.  They just indicate a person's qualification. They don't indicate the duty of the person at the mission.


/Insert Snappy Comment Here

DNall

How many IC qual'd people are generally walking around your missin bases? I live in a rather large wing here (size & membership) & we don't have all that many ICs, and only a very small handful of them are active in that role (or ES at all for that matter).

As I said, you don't for the most part want the public/media knowing who's who. You do want to ID quals on the chest of people standing around, just like you do now w/ observer wings on a GTL & welcome to a new job buddy. Yeah I know the badges are determinative of who hold what postion, but it's impirical evidence that's generally going to point you in the right direction. You shouldn't need much more than that as a member signed into that mission.

Eclipse

Cip-on badges, arm bands, and vests are pretty standard in any IC, no matter the agency - we use the badges, theyy work well.

If you look like the "big boys", its easier to work with them, one reason we have been tweking CAP ICS to match "real" ICS.

You might want to look into whether there are standard colors, etc.

"That Others May Zoom"

TankerT

Quote from: DNall on November 29, 2006, 09:22:40 PM
How many IC qual'd people are generally walking around your missin bases? I live in a rather large wing here (size & membership) & we don't have all that many ICs, and only a very small handful of them are active in that role (or ES at all for that matter).

Last mission I was at.  3 or 4.


/Insert Snappy Comment Here

SJFedor

Quote from: DNall on November 29, 2006, 08:47:38 PM
By the way, the upcoming IC badge should help you out with this one, and there's proposals to cover AOBD & GBD, to integrate PSC in the personnel badge & specialty track, same w/ PIO/PA, Comm, etc I don't know what's going to stick, but the IC badge looks like it's pretty set.

GBD's do have a badge already. AOBD's are more often then not already mission observer's or pilots, though they don't need to be current, and typically have their wings on.

It's all more bling.

And I shall have it all.

Steven Fedor, NREMT-P
Master Ambulance Driver
Former Capt, MP, MCPE, MO, MS, GTL, and various other 3-and-4 letter combinations
NESA MAS Instructor, 2008-2010 (#479)

Eclipse

Quote from: TankerT on November 29, 2006, 09:36:59 PM
Quote from: DNall on November 29, 2006, 09:22:40 PM
How many IC qual'd people are generally walking around your missin bases? I live in a rather large wing here (size & membership) & we don't have all that many ICs, and only a very small handful of them are active in that role (or ES at all for that matter).

Last mission I was at.  3 or 4.

By "IC qual'd" I assume you are talking about legitimate mission base personnel, in which case, on any mid-large-scale excercise you'll see

IC
OPS
PSC
AOBD
GBD
FIN
Logistics
Transport
CUL
Safety
Several MSA's

And bear in mind these are just the directors - they will all likey have assistants, and if you drill further to Staging managers and similiar, that's even more.

"That Others May Zoom"

Eclipse

Quote from: DNall on November 29, 2006, 08:47:38 PMBy the way, the upcoming IC badge should help you out with this one, and there's proposals to cover AOBD & GBD, to integrate PSC in the personnel badge & specialty track, same w/ PIO/PA, Comm, etc I don't know what's going to stick, but the IC badge looks like it's pretty set.

I disagree, and this is part of our problem.

Just because you are >a< GBD, IC, etc., doesn't mean you are >THE< GBD, IC, etc., that day.

However some members don't understand this, and waltz into ICPs with advanced grade, or some base staff qualification and think they can take over.

There's only one IC, and the blinig on his uniform may not correspond to the position.

"That Others May Zoom"

RiverAux

QuoteI'd prefer NOT to have Vests or clip on IDs or armbands, all that just looks stupid, and frankly anyone who doesn't know what position you're in doesn't need to be disturbing you.

Most of the ICS/NIMS training I have gone through recommends that people wear position identification as much as practical.  This is probably more critical when the CAP mission staff is co-located with other incident operations which probably isn't often.  Of course that will be when the fact that CAP operates with its own mini-ICS command structure could cause difficulties. 

DNall

Quote from: Eclipse on November 29, 2006, 10:27:08 PM
Quote from: DNall on November 29, 2006, 08:47:38 PMBy the way, the upcoming IC badge should help you out with this one, and there's proposals to cover AOBD & GBD, to integrate PSC in the personnel badge & specialty track, same w/ PIO/PA, Comm, etc I don't know what's going to stick, but the IC badge looks like it's pretty set.

I disagree, and this is part of our problem.

Just because you are >a< GBD, IC, etc., doesn't mean you are >THE< GBD, IC, etc., that day.

However some members don't understand this, and waltz into ICPs with advanced grade, or some base staff qualification and think they can take over.

There's only one IC, and the blinig on his uniform may not correspond to the position.
I believe you were in Ms for Katrina? The after action report I read talked about a situation I've seen a hundred times (well 50 anyway), in which there is an IC & a bunch of people showing up at base but there's no logistics or PSC or GBD or much else. People tend to show up for the sexy jobs or to be in charge & don't much like the in-between. ALL but one of the times I've flown actual missions as an observer were when I deployed at a GTL/GTM & the wings seen on my uniform got me moved to an aircrew.

If you look at the AF, they have badges for each career field, and those fields all contain both the domestic & the operational aspects of the field. Now think if we applied that to CAP. If you had an embroidered version of a senior admin or personnel badge & that meant you were also qual'd as a PSC. I could then snag that GTM & put them in a hole I desperately need filled. Now, I know technology is supposed to solve this for us, but it hasn't really yet & even when it does I'd like to have a backup in that fast paced situation.

Where you'll find armbands/vests/etc is when a bunch of people in the same field (same badge) are working an ops center in varrious command positions. The other situation is a joint ops command center where there are a hundred agencies & you need to be able to tell in some standardized what who worls for whom & what their job is. Right now, CAP is not IC'ing for multi-agency ops. We're not even remotely NIMS qual'd to serve in junior positions on those staffs. I understand we're going to be working toward changing that, and there is an appropriate time & place for the garb you're talking about here, but it's not really necessary on a REDCAP. I'm not saying it's evil, just not neccessary for aything we'll be running.

If I were you, I'd have my staff board in the briefing room, use a digital cam to snap a pic of each critical staff member, print 3x5 on reg paper & tape it up next to their name. Send people from sign in to that room, where they will do an equipment check while waiting for the appropriate director to come in & brief them on the situation, including staff, & tell them when they might expect tasking orders.

RiverAux

If the IC is picking his mission staff based on who shows up at the base that day, he needs to be fired.  That should have been worked out the night before.  He also shouldn't need to be hunting around that morning trying to find someone to fill a job based on a badge they're wearing on their BDUs (and since many won't be wearing the badge they're qualified for anyway, that wouldn't be a good search strategy). 

arajca

Quote from: RiverAux on November 30, 2006, 03:20:05 AM
If the IC is picking his mission staff based on who shows up at the base that day, he needs to be fired.  That should have been worked out the night before. 
You're assuming the IC knows who is going to be showing up the night before. If a mission gets called, the IC will be filling positions based on who shows up and their qualifications. As the incident passes into the second operational period, staff should be assigned ahead of time, again, if you know who is going to show up.

QuoteHe also shouldn't need to be hunting around that morning trying to find someone to fill a job based on a badge they're wearing on their BDUs (and since many won't be wearing the badge they're qualified for anyway, that wouldn't be a good search strategy). 
No arguement here.

At incident bases and camps, the staff usually wears something to identify what their function is. Vests, clip on badges, arm bands, hats, whatever. The badge, vest, whatever, also helps provide easy access control. The folks with the metal on their chests and hogleg on their hips really like being able to determine at a glance if the clown hanging around the outside the comm room is supposed to be there or not.

RiverAux

QuoteRe: Identifying Mission Staff positions
« Reply #18 on: Yesterday at 10:20:54 PM »   

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Quote from: RiverAux on Yesterday at 09:20:05 PM
If the IC is picking his mission staff based on who shows up at the base that day, he needs to be fired.  That should have been worked out the night before. 
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You're assuming the IC knows who is going to be showing up the night before. If a mission gets called, the IC will be filling positions based on who shows up and their qualifications. As the incident passes into the second operational period, staff should be assigned ahead of time, again, if you know who is going to show up.

It is the ICs job to round up mission staff as soon as he is alerted.  He should be calling folks right after getting off with AFRCC.  If has been sitting on his butt watching tv instead of doing this, in expectations that he will have enough randomly qualified people show up the next day, he needs to be fired.   The IC should already know who is qualified for various staff positions and they should be in his speed dial.  The same goes for the pilot and his aircrew and the GT Leader and his team.

All the essentiall staffing should be known before anyone shows up at base.  Sure, invite un-assigned people to show up just in case there is a need for them, but they're the only ones who shouldn't know what they're doing when the mission opens.