http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/science/earth/22parks.html?hp
There is an interesting article in the NY Times detailing the National Park Service's growing problems with visitors misusing technology and generally getting themselves into situations for which they are ill-prepared. This includes a group of hikers in the backcountry around the Grand Canyon who activated their SPOT emergency messaging/locator device not just once but three times--the first time because they were low on water and the second because their water "tasted salty." In all three instances, the park service dispatched helicopters to their aid as there was no way to determine the nature of their "emergency."
"Because of having that electronic device, people have an expectation that they can do something stupid and be rescued," said Jackie Skaggs, spokeswoman for Grand Teton National Park in Wyoming.
It is well worth reading the entire article as I think this problem will become more prevalent in our business over time.
in the Fire/EMS/Police field... we call idiots like those, "job security".
Quote from: whatevah on August 22, 2010, 01:08:56 PM
in the Fire/EMS/Police field... we call idiots like those, "job security".
True, but they are very expensive, too. The Park Service estimated each helicopter trip cost upwards of $3,400.
Quote from: FlyTiger77 on August 22, 2010, 01:44:43 PM
Quote from: whatevah on August 22, 2010, 01:08:56 PM
in the Fire/EMS/Police field... we call idiots like those, "job security".
True, but they are very expensive, too. The Park Service estimated each helicopter trip cost upwards of $3,400.
So? ;D Charge them for the entire trip and labor costs. >:D
Really, can't they be charged? I mean, idiocy isn't a crime, but wasting gov. money for improperly using emergency equipment can surely net you a fine. Or even just the emergency part, like calling 911 as a joke or for when kitty has a tummyache.
well the article mentioned at the 3rd activation they made the people leave the park (refused evacuation the first 2 times) and gave the guy in charge of the group a "citation", but didn't mention a specific fine or anything.
There are people everywhere who abuse the system, no matter what the system is. Welcome to America. :( There are tons of "frequent flyers" who call 911 to get a ride to the hospital in the next town just so they don't have to pay for the bus fare or cab fee. And to avoid lawsuits, we have to pick them up. And to avoid a "kidnapping" charge, we have to take them to the hospital they request, if it's "in reason". Usually they'll make up some illness "headache or stomach pains" and walk out of the ER after we drop them off, but I've overheard radio calls from the medic crews saying "Patient has no complaints whatsoever, he just wants to be taken to the hospital". And because the patient has no insurance or job, Medicare/Medicaid pays for it. Aka, we pay for it, with our taxes. Meanwhile, somebody with a legitimate life-threatening emergency has to wait for another ambulance to come get them.
That's the real problem with this. What if there was a problem and the helicopter crashed trying to "rescue" those idiots in the article? Multiple people dead because somebody thought their water tasted "salty"?
QuoteSo perhaps it is no surprise that when the hikers pressed the button again the following morning, park personnel gave them no choice but to return home. The leader was issued a citation for creating hazardous conditions in the parks.
I can just read it now .. "they were @$$#013s for kicking us out.."
I know that in MI, there was a small section of the population who insisted upon ice fishing until the very last minute year over year. They would go out as the ice was melting, and would find themselves inevitably floating on the equivalent of an ice cube when the piece they were camped out on broke away and floated out into the lake. It made the news every year and was rather amusing to those of us not in the particular situation. The USCG would get called and they would send a helo out to rescue them. Over time, they discovered that they were picking up some of the same people more than once. Eventually they initiated a first rescue is free, second and subsequent rescues will cost you mentality. Not sure of how effective it was as I left the state shortly after.
If only the helicopter could look like this on strike three.
(http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/helicopter-m/ah64/ah64d_01.jpg)
Some of this was covered earlier in this thread:
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=9669.msg174963#msg174963
Firefox ate the reply I was going to make, but the salient points are:
Up here in the Northeast, my state is looking at charging people for being stupid.
Going out into the mountains well prepared and having something happen is one thing. Heading out with nothing but a bottle of water and a cell phone is another.
Several years back, Curt Lafond (NHQ/CP) hosted a dinner @ his sq where the guest speaker from the Eastern Mountain Sports SAR team recounted the story of an "experienced" hiker/climber who attempted to summit Mt Washington w/o sufficient gear. He got above the treeline, ran into snow and wind, then got on his cell phone for help. When told by the 911 dispatcher to "turn around," he refused to descend the way he came because his prosthetic knee replacements hurt too much "going down hill." He continued up the mountain, hoping to make it to "safety" at the summit. He wandered off the trails, and eventually hit the auto road where he curled up into his cheap lightweight bivy sack to await rescue. The SAR team, meanwhile, was slogging their way up the auto road with Snow-Cats, and nearly ran the guy over. He later felt that he had done nothing wrong, since he had his cell phone with him.
This debate has raged off and on for a couple years, since its the Dept of Fish & Game that are the primary SAR agency, and when they get 8-10 of these, including blade time, the cost busts the budgets pretty severely.
My question is...have people here had similar SAR missions with CAP?
We had a similar sort of cluelessness once when a guy had bought an ultralight and knew nothing about it. It has an EPIRB (yes, EPIRB) fastened to it with wire ties, which he knew nothing about and accidentally activated. He said that he had been leaving messages for the previous owner about the "red blinking light," to no avail. That is, until we showed up with a UDF team. (Walking around a neighborhood, on Halloween in BDUs...They thought we were trick or treating when we arrived at his door) In this case he wasn't relying on the technology - he just had no idea what the technology was.
I know that I'd be bent if I got a mission because the hikers thought the water tasted salty.
Ahhh yes. Just like having two engines on an airplane wont keep you from making a bad decision.
Quote from: Flying Pig on August 22, 2010, 11:15:33 PM
Ahhh yes. Just like having two engines on an airplane wont keep you from making a bad decision.
Or deice boots!