the AEPSM (AE Program Senior Members) ( i.e., the "Yeager Award") is considered Step 1 in the Senior members' AE program. Three notes of special interest:
1) Take the on-line Yeager/AEPSM test BEFORE completing Level II and you receive the "Yeager Seal" on your Level II - General Benjamin O. Davis Jr Award Certificate (formerly "Certificate of Proficiency")
2) AND here's the BONUS: the same AEPSM/Yeager test fulfills one of the Level IV requirements to wards the Paul E. Garber Award.
3) Step 2 in the AE Program for senior members after taking the AEPSM on-line test, is to achieve attach Rating as an AEO.
Yes. None of this is new, so I'm not sure where you're going with this...
Quote from: Eclipse on December 17, 2006, 06:23:07 PM
Yes. None of this is new, so I'm not sure where you're going with this...
I'll not try to speak for this person too much, but it may just be one of those revelations people make and have to proclaim.
Yeager is a worthy program when administered correctly, I would encourage everyone to get it. It improves the prestige of the unit.
Pilots should find it a WALK-in-the-PARK and non-Pilots should find it informative.
Quote from: Major Carrales on December 17, 2006, 07:17:20 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on December 17, 2006, 06:23:07 PM
Yes. None of this is new, so I'm not sure where you're going with this...
I'll not try to speak for this person too much, but it may just be one of those revelations people make and have to proclaim.
Yeager is a worthy program when administered correctly, I would encourage everyone to get it. It improves the prestige of the unit.
Pilots should find it a WALK-in-the-PARK and non-Pilots should find it informative.
I believe
Eclipse was trying to say this: "We know this, why are you telling us something we already know?"
As far as "one of those revelations people make and have to proclaim", did you consider that concept when you first started the thread?
Quote from: Major Carrales on December 17, 2006, 07:17:20 PMYeager is a worthy program when administered correctly, I would encourage everyone to get it. It improves the prestige of the unit.
That I agree with, unfortunately, when they put it online /open book, they watered down the award.
For many it can just be 15-20 minutes spent with the search function and another ribbon.
Contrasting many who took it seriously and spent days / weeks, in unit meetings or study groups to actually learn something.
I'm not in that group, btw - haven't taken it yet. We're kicking around doing a structured adult ES program in '07. We'll see.
Quote from: Hawk200 on December 17, 2006, 07:24:24 PM
As far as "one of those revelations people make and have to proclaim", did you consider that concept when you first started the thread?
All I'm saying by that is that sometimes we get those EUREKA moments and want to tell some one...see what they say.
Sometimes a statement of the obvious can start a fresh conversation on the matter.
As for other issues in this thread...
I think a structured AE Adult program is a great idea. Pilots already have this info, thus, I feel that they are in a unique position to help. Sort of as "living reference texts." A pilot also might be qualifed to take the test cold. Aside from the historical issues and events, it should be child's play.
Quote from: Major Carrales on December 17, 2006, 08:14:47 PM
All I'm saying by that is that sometimes we get those EUREKA moments and want to tell some one...see what they say.
I can understand that.
Quote
I think a structured AE Adult program is a great idea. Pilots already have this info, thus, I feel that they are in a unique position to help. Sort of as "living reference texts." A pilot also might be qualifed to take the test cold. Aside from the historical issues and events, it should be child's play.
True. I already have a Yeager, took it many years ago. Good info in there.
Downside is that it can probably be a little difficult. Aside from the likely to asked question of "How does it benefit me?, there is also an issue of having time for it. At unit meetings, I spend half the night doing paperwork. The other half is taken up with assisting with the cadets, and digging up other info for members (all of them, not just seniors). Might be hard to find the time to do a formal program.
There are people that like the bling, so sometimes "Hey, you get a ribbon for it" can be a pretty juicy carrot.
Quote from: acarlson on December 17, 2006, 06:12:36 PM
the AEPSM (AE Program Senior Members) ( i.e., the "Yeager Award") is considered Step 1 in the Senior members' AE program. Three notes of special interest:
1) Take the on-line Yeager/AEPSM test BEFORE completing Level II and you receive the "Yeager Seal" on your Level II - General Benjamin O. Davis Jr Award Certificate (formerly "Certificate of Proficiency")
2) AND here's the BONUS: the same AEPSM/Yeager test fulfills one of the Level IV requirements to wards the Paul E. Garber Award.
3) Step 2 in the AE Program for senior members after taking the AEPSM on-line test, is to achieve attach Rating as an AEO.
Thanks for sharing!
Perhaps in the rush of the holiday season, several of you have lost sight of why we are actually here at CAPTalk. The primary reason of this forum is not to debate uniforms or national-level politics, but rather to exchange and share information useful to other members in their professional CAP capacities.
While this information might be old-hat to some of us, it could easily serve as a motiviation for another member to go online and take the Yeager, or be a great way of wording encouragement to take the test that another AEO could use in his or her unit's newsletter. Please don't chide people for sharing useful and applicable information even if you are already aware of it. It's unprofessional, at best.
Quote from: Pylon on December 17, 2006, 11:38:39 PM
Quote from: acarlson on December 17, 2006, 06:12:36 PM
the AEPSM (AE Program Senior Members) ( i.e., the "Yeager Award") is considered Step 1 in the Senior members' AE program. Three notes of special interest:
1) Take the on-line Yeager/AEPSM test BEFORE completing Level II and you receive the "Yeager Seal" on your Level II - General Benjamin O. Davis Jr Award Certificate (formerly "Certificate of Proficiency")
2) AND here's the BONUS: the same AEPSM/Yeager test fulfills one of the Level IV requirements to wards the Paul E. Garber Award.
3) Step 2 in the AE Program for senior members after taking the AEPSM on-line test, is to achieve attach Rating as an AEO.
Thanks for sharing!
Perhaps in the rush of the holiday season, several of you have lost sight of why we are actually here at CAPTalk. The primary reason of this forum is not to debate uniforms or national-level politics, but rather to exchange and share information useful to other members in their professional CAP capacities.
While this information might be old-hat to some of us, it could easily serve as a motiviation for another member to go online and take the Yeager, or be a great way of wording encouragement to take the test that another AEO could use in his or her unit's newsletter. Please don't chide people for sharing useful and applicable information even if you are already aware of it. It's unprofessional, at best.
That's spot on...I second that.
Yeah guys... Way to make a new user feel welcome. :(
Quote from: MIKE on December 18, 2006, 12:16:50 AM
Yeah guys... Way to make a new user feel welcome. :(
Maybe some of the posters on CAPTalk weren't hugged enough as kids....who knows what makes some folks so combative.
As for the AEPSM info...way for the new gal to bring that info to the forefront! I know plenty of CAP seniors that require to be retold many things, time after time after time...
And welcome to CAPTalk, Annette! :)
Not only is the Yeager award something every member should try to attain, it really isn't that hard. Since it's online and open book all the answers are right there in front of you. Even without the book, I probably could have answered at least half of the questions even before I looked at the book, just from my general education. And I'm not some kid fresh out of school. It's been over twenty years now since I finished college.
Quote from: msmjr2003 on December 18, 2006, 02:14:41 AM
As for the AEPSM info...way for the new gal to bring that info to the forefront! I know plenty of CAP seniors that require to be retold many things, time after time after time...
I've had problems trying to motivate Seniors to actually take the Yeager. My Group has set a goal for 100 percent Yeager completion for all new Seniors within 18 months of joining, but we are going to miss that goal by at least 70 percent. I've gone as far as to send Seniors (or officers) the links to the book and the link to the site for the test.
The funny thing...a few months ago I had one Senior ask, "What's the Yeager test?" That officer has been in for 3 years...
Quote from: msmjr2003 on December 18, 2006, 02:14:41 AMMaybe some of the posters on CAPTalk weren't hugged enough as kids....who knows what makes some folks so combative.
I know I wasn't.
Sadly, there is not yet an online test or achievement for a Master Rating in "Surly."
Time to start writing that NEC proposal! It can't possibly be more foolish than some I've read.... ;)
Oh, and welcome to the board, Lt Carlson!
The online test is exactly the same test as the paper test. Both are open-book, so I see little difference in the end result, or the means toward the end.
YMMV.
Quote from: acarlson on December 17, 2006, 06:12:36 PM
the AEPSM (AE Program Senior Members) ( i.e., the "Yeager Award") is considered Step 1 in the Senior members' AE program. Three notes of special interest:
1) Take the on-line Yeager/AEPSM test BEFORE completing Level II and you receive the "Yeager Seal" on your Level II - General Benjamin O. Davis Jr Award Certificate (formerly "Certificate of Proficiency")
2) AND here's the BONUS: the same AEPSM/Yeager test fulfills one of the Level IV requirements to wards the Paul E. Garber Award.
3) Step 2 in the AE Program for senior members after taking the AEPSM on-line test, is to achieve attach Rating as an AEO.
My, I can see by your signature you wear many hats these days. I wore all those at once save the "Personnel" one last year. Then, they consolidated them all into one...SQUADRON COMMANDER.
As more people join your efforts, shed them one by one to people passionate about CAP...the results will reap much harvest.
Keep 'en Flying,
Major Carrales
Quote from: DeputyDog on December 18, 2006, 03:31:26 AM
I've had problems trying to motivate Seniors to actually take the Yeager. My Group has set a goal for 100 percent Yeager completion for all new Seniors within 18 months of joining, but we are going to miss that goal by at least 70 percent. I've gone as far as to send Seniors (or officers) the links to the book and the link to the site for the test.
The funny thing...a few months ago I had one Senior ask, "What's the Yeager test?" That officer has been in for 3 years...
Until this year my squadron had only a few Yeager award recipients. I was appointed to the "internal" AEO and we awarded not only 5 Yeagers at our December awards ceremony but also a Crossfield as well. Now did I do anything different than the former AEO? No, except I took the test and let everybody no what I had accomplished. I then challenged any Senior Officer to take a few hours out of their busy schedule and take the open book test. Low and behold here we are 4 months after I took the test with 5 new Yeagers in the unit.
To get it done try to use peer pressure for the "younger" (read under 40yo and less than 1 year service) Sr Officers, and bribery for the "older" (everyone else with plenty of senority, both age and service) members. It worked for me.
Quote from: msmjr2003 on December 18, 2006, 02:14:41 AM
And welcome to CAPTalk, Annette! :)
Quote from: RocketPropelled on December 18, 2006, 05:05:54 AM
Oh, and welcome to the board, Lt Carlson!
Definitely! Welcome, and thanks for contributing right out of the gate! :)
I'll add my ditto to the welcome to the board, Annette ...
...and see how many of you earned the Yeager Award even before it was called the Yeager Award??? My certificate (from 1984!) just says Aerospace Education Program for Senior Members. It didn't become the Yeager until after that!
Jack
I'll be the first to fess up........the thought of taking the time (regardless of being an open-book exam) left me cold during the bureaucratic days of ordering the paper version of the AEPSM.
Even though I always was told it wasn't that involved....in my mind, it was.
In '04, I became a "guinea pig" in WAWG for the online version. With the AE book in one window, and the test in another window, it was a simple 20 minutes (and yup, you'll know a GOOD deal of it without the text, if you were awake during High School and maybe college.)
It's such an easy procedure that now, this AEPSM deal could almost become as automatic as the Membership Ribbon.
(Sadly though, even a few of my own staff members have grafted the same "apathetic" response I had to the paper test onto the new online test... That boggles my mind!) :(
Quote from: Major Carrales on December 17, 2006, 08:14:47 PM
I think a structured AE Adult program is a great idea. Pilots already have this info, thus, I feel that they are in a unique position to help. Sort of as "living reference texts." A pilot also might be qualifed to take the test cold. Aside from the historical issues and events, it should be child's play.
I didn't really feel I had a lot to add to this thread before, but I did want to say one quick thing. A lot of pilots get saddled w/ AEO just cause they're pilots. Now granted they're going to have SOME things down that guy off the street doesn't, but most piltos aren't going to do well with the space & rocketry stuff.
I do favor a structured program, but let me say that I think the point of AE in CAP is 1) to inspire a dream in youth that leads them to serve the AF either directly, or in a contributory role in aerospace & airpower fields, or just as a supportive citizen. It's not particularly designed to make people smarter. And, 2) to educate adults & the general public about the benifitys of aerospace & air/space power so as to gnerate support for those items in the budget.
Now with that in mind, pull the self test version of Yeager off the net cause that makes a joke of it (with the test & search window open & the same questions from the instructor's guide). Break it down into 2-3 sections. Also, think about those objectives I mentioned & work the program in that direction.
Oh, and by the way, why is there a crossfield ribbon & an AE badge? Move the ribbon to an advanced version of this re-designed AESPM. Such a program is long overdue.
Quote from: DeputyDog on December 18, 2006, 03:31:26 AM
I've had problems trying to motivate Seniors to actually take the Yeager. My Group has set a goal for 100 percent Yeager completion for all new Seniors within 18 months of joining, but we are going to miss that goal by at least 70 percent. I've gone as far as to send Seniors (or officers) the links to the book and the link to the site for the test.
The funny thing...a few months ago I had one Senior ask, "What's the Yeager test?" That officer has been in for 3 years...
Some ideas:
1. Get the support of your Sqdn. Cmdr. This is critical. The Yeager is not just an individual exercise. The squadron's completion rate of the Yeager is a factor in it's overall performance. When the cmdr. buys into this, it can be a "requirement" for the sqdn.
2. You should have a list of squadron members. When you distributed the e-mail, phrase in such a way as to imply it as a "requirement". Make it very obvious as to who's completed the test and who hasn't. While it may not technically be required, phrasing it in such a way helps foster motivation much more so than the notion of an "optional" activity. It's great that you included the URL's to the exam and textbook when you distributed your e-mail.
3. Make certain to recognize those that successfully complete the Yeager by presenting their certificates in front of the squadron.
4. Assign completion dates for people if needed - a few people every couple weeks. We used a sign-up sheet, that way people could choose their timeframe if they wanted. This is easy for you to manage and puts focus on individuals. Ask for updates. If they are having trouble, what specifically is the issue? Is there any assistance you can offer?
5. Do you dedicate a portion of your regular meetings each month to AE? If not, consider doing so. Discuss/re-enforce the Yeager as much as possible, although it does not need to be (nor should it really be) the mainstay of the AE program for Officers.
I can tell you this about the Yeager - even as a pilot, there is a lot interesting stuff in that text. The history is very good. Many pilots, myself included, tend to not know as much about rockets or space - so there is that element. We have a very experienced pilot in our squardron - he's flown all types of aircraft and probably has more combat hours than most people have hours - and even he found the text to be interesting and insightful.
The unfortunate thing, and it was hit on earlier, is that the Yeager has become just a checklist item rather than the learning tool it is.