Cadet Commander Duty Positions

[Cadet CMSgt]

In our squadron our Cadet commander currently has 4 duty positions. Is this even allowed? I say if you are the Cadet Commander you should only have that one position and give other cadets a chance to have positions. But again I ask. What are the regs. on number of duty positions?

[Майор Хаткевич]

In our squadron our Cadet commander currently has 4 duty positions. Is this even allowed? I say if you are the Cadet Commander you should only have that one position and give other cadets a chance to have positions. But again I ask. What are the regs. on number of duty positions?

What are the duty positions?

[Cadet CMSgt]

He is:
Cadet Commander
Executive Officer
ES Officer
and
Wing CAC

[Storm Chaser]

In our squadron our Cadet commander currently has 4 duty positions. Is this even allowed? I say if you are the Cadet Commander you should only have that one position and give other cadets a chance to have positions. But again I ask. What are the regs. on number of duty positions?

No, there's no regulation limiting the number of positions a cadet can have. That's going to be up to the squadron commander or deputy commander for cadets. There are many factors that come into play when deciding who's going to do what. Without knowing this cadet or other cadets in your unit, it would be hard to say whether he or she should have these other positions.

He is:
Cadet Commander
Executive Officer
ES Officer
and
Wing CAC

It's redundant for the cadet commander to also be the executive officer. If there's no other suitable person to have that position, it should stay vacant. It's like having the cadet commander also be the cadet deputy commander. The duties overlap.

[Cadet CMSgt]

Agreed. I am the current ES NCO but will be officer really soon. But I was told by DCC that I would be the cadet over ES after he went Commander. But he still pushing me out of the subject. Mostly because he is SET in GTM3 and UDF. But so am I and I'm almost GTM2, GTM1, and GTL. Any ideas on what to do here? I mean yes I know he's an officer and I have to respect that. But He's trying to take command a little to far.

[Storm Chaser]

Regardless of any additional duties a Cadet Commander may have, he or she still oversees these functions and the cadet staff assigned to them. Of course, as a Cadet ES NCO or Officer, you would also be working with the senior member ES Officer. You can still do that regardless of your duty title.

If you still have issues with that, then follow the chain of command and talk to your Deputy Commander for Cadets.

[Cadet CMSgt]

Thank you I will.

[Eaker Guy]

Would you be comfortable sharing the makeup of your squadron(e.g. number of officers, NCOs, airmen)? This would help with regards to your question.

[Eaker Guy]

In our squadron our Cadet commander currently has 4 duty positions. Is this even allowed? I say if you are the Cadet Commander you should only have that one position and give other cadets a chance to have positions. But again I ask. What are the regs. on number of duty positions?

No, there's no regulation limiting the number of positions a cadet can have. That's going to be up to the squadron commander or deputy commander for cadets. There are many factors that come into play when deciding who's going to do what. Without knowing this cadet or other cadets in your unit, it would be hard to say whether he or she should have these other positions.

He is:
Cadet Commander
Executive Officer
ES Officer
and
Wing CAC

It's redundant for the cadet commander to also be the executive officer. If there's no other suitable person to have that position, it should stay vacant. It's like having the cadet commander also be the cadet deputy commander. The duties overlap.

Especially if this C/CC is the C/XO and the ES officer, which would be supervised by the C/XO. In reality there is no C/XO, because it is impossible for a C/ESO to be supervised by himself.

[Storm Chaser]

Would you be comfortable sharing the makeup of your squadron(e.g. number of officers, NCOs, airmen)? This would help with regards to your question.

It really wouldn't. Since all duty assignments are made by the Squadron Commander or Deputy Commander for Cadets, it is them who need to determine who's more qualified to do what. It's also their call whether one cadet holds more than one position or not.

Based on the information provided, there's nothing wrong with the Cadet Commander also being the WCAC Representative and C/ESO. The only position that seems redundant is the Executive Officer.

If the OP has an issue with the way his cadet organization is structured, then he needs to address that with his Commander or Deputy Commander for Cadets.

[lordmonar]

All not filled positions are filled by the next higher on the chain.

So....if their is not XO (the guy who manages the cadet staff) then of course the commander is filling that position by defualt.   And just like NIMS you can double billet people but never "combine" jobs...it makes it easier to fit a person into said job once he become qualified and available.

Other then that....you are correct....The squadron commander/DCC are the people who determine what positions are filled and by who.

So....to the OP it seems like you feel that you are not being given enough leadership opportunity.....okay fair enough....take your concerns to your C/CC and/or the DCC.

[Eaker Guy]

All not filled positions are filled by the next higher on the chain.

So....if their is not XO (the guy who manages the cadet staff) then of course the commander is filling that position by defualt.   And just like NIMS you can double billet people but never "combine" jobs...it makes it easier to fit a person into said job once he become qualified and available.

Other then that....you are correct....The squadron commander/DCC are the people who determine what positions are filled and by who.

So....to the OP it seems like you feel that you are not being given enough leadership opportunity.....okay fair enough....take your concerns to your C/CC and/or the DCC.

+1. Especially on the leadership opportunity part.

To the OP, make sure you have all the facts before you contact the C/CC and CDC. There may be other factors. Maybe even a simple misunderstanding between the C/CC and the CDC.

[Eaker Guy]

Would you be comfortable sharing the makeup of your squadron(e.g. number of officers, NCOs, airmen)? This would help with regards to your question.

It really wouldn't. Since all duty assignments are made by the Squadron Commander or Deputy Commander for Cadets, it is them who need to determine who's more qualified to do what. It's also their call whether one cadet holds more than one position or not.

Based on the information provided, there's nothing wrong with the Cadet Commander also being the WCAC Representative and C/ESO. The only position that seems redundant is the Executive Officer.

If the OP has an issue with the way his cadet organization is structured, then he needs to address that with his Commander or Deputy Commander for Cadets.

I agree that there is nothing wrong with the C/CC being the WCAC rep and the C/ESO. I see your point about the CC and CDC having authority over duty assignments. I was just trying to get a feel for the situation. One thing I've learned on CAP Talk is never post assuming things. For all I know the C/CC and this soon to be C/2d Lt are the only two officers in the squadron. Maybe the detail with the airmen went to far, but I was just trying.

[Cadet CMSgt]

Would you be comfortable sharing the makeup of your squadron(e.g. number of officers, NCOs, airmen)? This would help with regards to your question.

You have
Cap. As CC AND EXO
2nd. Lt is first sergeant and DC
Smsgt.'s as flight commander
Me a chief and a msgt. As flight sergeants.
Then the flights.
We have 4 officers
1 chief(me)
3 SMSgts.
2 Msgt.
1 tech
2 maybe 3 staff
3 senior airmen
5 A1C's
6 airman
And
Maybe 9 AB's

[Storm Chaser]

2nd. Lt is first sergeant and DC

Your unit's First Sergeant is a C/2d Lt? There's something very wrong with that picture. A C/MSgt, C/SMSgt or C/CMSgt should be assigned to that position. If no suitable C/NCOs are available for the First Sergeant position, then the position should be left vacant.

If you haven't already, I recommend you become familiar with CAPP 52-15, Cadet Staff Handbook, as it provides guidelines on how to structure the cadet staff.

[LSThiker]

2nd. Lt is first sergeant and DC

Your unit's First Sergeant is a C/2d Lt? There's something very wrong with that picture.

They also have a C/SMSgt as flight commander but a C/CMSgt as a flight sergeant.  Unless that C/SMSgt is a flight commander for the C/MSgt.  But then, I would ask why have a C/SMSgt as a flight commander and C/2d Lt as a 1SG?

[Storm Chaser]

2nd. Lt is first sergeant and DC

Your unit's First Sergeant is a C/2d Lt? There's something very wrong with that picture.

They also have a C/SMSgt as flight commander but a C/CMSgt as a flight sergeant.  Unless that C/SMSgt is a flight commander for the C/MSgt.  But then, I would ask why have a C/SMSgt as a flight commander and C/2d Lt as a 1SG?

That one I can understand. If you have two cadets with the same grade assigned to the Flight Sergeant and Flight Commander positions and the next month the Flight Sergeant gets promoted, then you end up with that situation. Should you switch positions when that happens? Not necessarily. Especially because cadets can promote so quickly and it may not be practical to change the staff every couple of months.

[Spam]

Chief Gregg:

1/ Your situation is not unique. This will be the second time this week I've recommended that senior member officer staff should attend and participate in the (SM only) Training Leaders of Cadets (TLC) class, which has an exercise for officers to use the CAP publications to step through this exact analysis (manning and staffing of the cadet staff).  If at all possible to do so tactfully, perhaps you could mention to your CDC (Deputy Commander for Cadets) that you'd heard of this TLC course on line, which contains resource material in how to do this. See:
http://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/library/tlc_course/index.cfm
http://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/library/tlc_course/tlc-instructors/

I say again, tactfully, politely, and in a manner which does not imply criticism. (I'm not real good at that myself, honestly)...


2/ Your concerns regarding duty assignments are valid, yet as other posters have pointed out, the Squadron Commander (CC), not Cadet Commander (C/CC) or Deputy Commander for Cadets (CDC) is the single person responsible for duty assignments, often acting on recommendations tendered to him/her from the CDC, based on suggestions/analyses from the current cadet commander/staff.  A good CO will seek staff inputs (should you politely state your case) but once a decision is made your job is to execute - not to pursue disagreement past his/her decision point.


3/  Having said that - what can you contribute/suggest constructively?  One factor which you or they might not be aware is that there is room within eServices to have multiple cadets in a given staff position, which enables training cadets to learn to work as a team. For example, the Duty Assignment module ("Personnel/Duty Assignment/Assign Cadet Duties") allows both Cadet ES Officers and Cadet ES NCOs - which would seem to fit your specific bill. In my unit I routinely have at least two cadets assigned to this functional department (I have between 8 - 10 cadet officers at any given time, and a bunch of C/NCOs, most of whom are SET qualified GTM3/2/1, so I try to find jobs for them to work together on).  May I suggest that there is room for a senior/junior mentoring relationship between two or more of you, which enables the junior to understudy the senior and to provide continuity for the unit once he promotes and moves on... so, try that on for size, and see if you'd suggest having BOTH of you team up as C/ESO and C/ESNCO.


4/  By bringing the eServices position assignment options to their notice, you may be subtly steering your officers to what are essentially position guides for cadet duty assignment, which are now hard coded into the eServices DP modules. (For example, I just input a junior cadets name as a test, and selected Command Section/First Sergeant, and the system pulls up a red text message, "*Duty recommends a of rank of C/MSgt or higher" as guidance to me as the unit CC).

Coupled with a respectful suggestion that there may be resources on the TLC site and in the regulations that we could all use (cadets and officers both), you might position yourself as a senior C/NCO who actually reads the regs, and makes concrete suggestions to improve teamwork, rather than a cadet who could come across as complaining about favoritism or nepotism.  Take the high road!


Best wishes,

Spam

[Cadet CMSgt]

2nd. Lt is first sergeant and DC

Your unit's First Sergeant is a C/2d Lt? There's something very wrong with that picture.

They also have a C/SMSgt as flight commander but a C/CMSgt as a flight sergeant.  Unless that C/SMSgt is a flight commander for the C/MSgt.  But then, I would ask why have a C/SMSgt as a flight commander and C/2d Lt as a 1SG?

That one I can understand. If you have two cadets with the same grade assigned to the Flight Sergeant and Flight Commander positions and the next month the Flight Sergeant gets promoted, then you end up with that situation. Should you switch positions when that happens? Not necessarily. Especially because cadets can promote so quickly and it may not be practical to change the staff every couple of months.

I am the CMSgt i have a smsgt as my flight commander and im promoting to cmsgt 2nd phase next month. Thw cadet commander is always saying position over rank? Theres no such thing. The positions come with rank. I am in the position a staff and tech sgt should be in.

[Cadet CMSgt]

Chief Gregg:

1/ Your situation is not unique. This will be the second time this week I've recommended that senior member officer staff should attend and participate in the (SM only) Training Leaders of Cadets (TLC) class, which has an exercise for officers to use the CAP publications to step through this exact analysis (manning and staffing of the cadet staff).  If at all possible to do so tactfully, perhaps you could mention to your CDC (Deputy Commander for Cadets) that you'd heard of this TLC course on line, which contains resource material in how to do this. See:
http://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/library/tlc_course/index.cfm
http://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/library/tlc_course/tlc-instructors/

I say again, tactfully, politely, and in a manner which does not imply criticism. (I'm not real good at that myself, honestly)...


2/ Your concerns regarding duty assignments are valid, yet as other posters have pointed out, the Squadron Commander (CC), not Cadet Commander (C/CC) or Deputy Commander for Cadets (CDC) is the single person responsible for duty assignments, often acting on recommendations tendered to him/her from the CDC, based on suggestions/analyses from the current cadet commander/staff.  A good CO will seek staff inputs (should you politely state your case) but once a decision is made your job is to execute - not to pursue disagreement past his/her decision point.


3/  Having said that - what can you contribute/suggest constructively?  One factor which you or they might not be aware is that there is room within eServices to have multiple cadets in a given staff position, which enables training cadets to learn to work as a team. For example, the Duty Assignment module ("Personnel/Duty Assignment/Assign Cadet Duties") allows both Cadet ES Officers and Cadet ES NCOs - which would seem to fit your specific bill. In my unit I routinely have at least two cadets assigned to this functional department (I have between 8 - 10 cadet officers at any given time, and a bunch of C/NCOs, most of whom are SET qualified GTM3/2/1, so I try to find jobs for them to work together on).  May I suggest that there is room for a senior/junior mentoring relationship between two or more of you, which enables the junior to understudy the senior and to provide continuity for the unit once he promotes and moves on... so, try that on for size, and see if you'd suggest having BOTH of you team up as C/ESO and C/ESNCO.


4/  By bringing the eServices position assignment options to their notice, you may be subtly steering your officers to what are essentially position guides for cadet duty assignment, which are now hard coded into the eServices DP modules. (For example, I just input a junior cadets name as a test, and selected Command Section/First Sergeant, and the system pulls up a red text message, "*Duty recommends a of rank of C/MSgt or higher" as guidance to me as the unit CC).

Coupled with a respectful suggestion that there may be resources on the TLC site and in the regulations that we could all use (cadets and officers both), you might position yourself as a senior C/NCO who actually reads the regs, and makes concrete suggestions to improve teamwork, rather than a cadet who could come across as complaining about favoritism or nepotism.  Take the high road!


Best wishes,

Spam

Thank you Spam this should be of much needed help.