Cadet Advisory Council

[USAFgirl]

Hi Everyone!
My name is Cadet Wardrop and I am interested about the Cadet Advisory Council. I went to Summer Encampment 2010 and I learned a little bit about it. I really want to be the representative for my squadron. We already have one but he is going to teach me and I might become the new squadron representative! YAY!
If anybody can tell me ANYTHING about the CAC....PLEASE TELL ME!
                                                                              Thanks Alot!

[jimmydeanno]

This should be your primary resource into *what* the CAC is. 

CAPP 52-19: Cadet Advisory Council Handbook: http://capmembers.com/media/cms/P052_019_1584425C1735C.pdf

Do you have any specific questions?

[USAFgirl]

thankyou!

[DBlair]

It is great to hear of your interest in becoming the CAC Representative for your Squadron.

Essentially, a Cadet from each unit is assigned as the Primary Rep, and an Alternate should ideally be also appointed in case the Primary Rep can't attend.

Each term is for 1 year (2 term max) and so if you are interested in learning more about it, and if your unit doesn't yet have an Alternate Rep, then perhaps you should ask about this as it would certainly help prepare you to serve as the Primary Rep if/when you are appointed.

Other than this, read the materials at the link posted above and if you have any questions, feel free to ask either here or back at your unit.

[addo1]

Cadet Wardrop,

I am glad to see your interest in the Cadet Advisory Council. As a member of the National CAC, I can tell you firsthand that there is a great potential for the council, but we need motivated individuals like yourself. Starting CAC training at your squadron is a great start. I am not sure what you would exactly like to know, but feel free to send me any questions or comments that you might have. Best of luck to you! Have a great evening.

[Eclipse]

As a member of the National CAC, I can tell you firsthand that there is a great potential for the council...

Such as?

[addo1]

As a member of the National CAC, I can tell you firsthand that there is a great potential for the council...

Such as?

Potential, in this case, is found in people and assets. The Cadet Advisory Council was designed for a specific purpose which is sometimes met and sometimes not. When standardization between the levels is achieved, communication between councils, their commander, and the higher echelon will begin to happen and changes can take place. Obviously, the CAC is only an advisory council, but when proper communication is obtained, changes can be advised upon for the betterment of the cadet population. The strength of communication varies between which council we are speaking of, but I can say that I have seen a large change in the past several months as a whole. All of the problems cannot be fixed overnight, but with some motivation and dedication to the purpose, they can be fixed.

There are many initiatives at hand, but in order for the Cadet Advisory Council to accomplish anything, it must be supported and understood by both the cadets and senior members of the Civil Air Patrol. The 2010-2011 term has a lot ahead of it, but with people working together with a shared vision and an ultimate goal, success will be achieved.

[Eclipse]

Sorry cadet, that's a whole lot of management speak.  I applaud your effort and initiative, but paragraphs like the above are exactly
what we are tired of hearing from the CAC.

NHQ has been unable to articulate the mission and purpose of the CAC for a long time, and doesn't seem to be working to change that.
I have yet to receive an answer from anyone, at any level, who can provide objective purpose for the existence of the council beyond
rhetoric from the manual.

If the participatory experience in a parliamentary environment for the council members themselves is the goal (i.e. student government), that is one thing, but if you really expect to build the groundswell of support necessary to get anything done beyond a few banquets and a couple of meetings, you're going to need to do more than draw an insignia and make videos.

[Ned]

Sorry cadet, that's a whole lot of management speak.  I applaud your effort and initiative, but paragraphs like the above are exactly
what we are tired of hearing from the CAC.

Sorry Bob, but that's a whole lot of non-support from a commander who is charged with having and supporting an active CAC.  As always. I applaud your dedication and support of the program in general, but these kinds of sentiments directed at a cadet not in your chain of command when your own CAC chair needs your guidance and support are exactly what we don't need.

NHQ has been unable to articulate the mission and purpose of the CAC for a long time, and doesn't seem to be working to change that.
I have yet to receive an answer from anyone, at any level, who can provide objective purpose for the existence of the council beyond
rhetoric from the manual.

Perhaps you are overlooking the very real possibility that the "rhetoric from the manual" actually happens to describe the objective purpose / mission of the CAC.

As a review, CAPP 52-19 tells us that the CAC (1) develops leadership skills of the participants by participating at a higher organizational level than the squadron, (2) assists commanders like yourself in monitoring and implementing the cadet program, and (3) improves the cadet program by making recommendations for improving and running the CP.

If the participatory experience in a parliamentary environment for the council members themselves is the goal (i.e. student government), that is one thing, but if you really expect to build the groundswell of support necessary to get anything done beyond a few banquets and a couple of meetings, you're going to need to do more than draw an insignia and make videos.

Not to take a cheap shot, but you'd have to admit that our senior leaders on the NB seem to spend even more time than the CAC debating things like uniforms and insignia.

But I suspect you'd agree with me that both bodies have more productive things to do with their time.  If the CAC is not adequately tasked and guided, they can sometimes work on non-productive topics.  Just like the NB.  It is every commander's job to provide support and guidance for their CAC.  CAC is not an optional component of CP.

So, how mich time have you spent with your group CAC chair lately?  What quidance have you given to the CAC?  What feedback have you given them on their input and advice?

Because I know you would also agree with me that command emphasis tends to make things happen and command indifference tends to diminish efforts and accomplishments.

[Eclipse]

Yes, it is the commanders who set the tone and herd the cats, I agree - but in a volunteer organization, people do things for a reason, or with specific goals in mind, especially cadets.  In this situation, in most cases, especially at the unit level, it is for the cord and the ribbon, with no reason or motivation beyond that.  And frankly, if participation itself is the goal, I'm fine with that, but setting up cadets to believe they have a voice where none exists is worse than them not having a voice at all.

Pointing out the acknowledged "challenges" of other parts of the organization doesn't address the specific issue, nor will it fix it.  It is also clearly part of the whole.

I have been trying for two years to get some momentum behind it locally, with a strong cadet chair (2 diamonds with a third on order.  If he's not the best cadet in the wing, he's certainly on the list) and an experienced senior advisor - we take the time and effort to cull the the 2a's, setup the meetings, and then the crickets start chirping.  The cadets are no call / no show, despite having made personal commitments to participate and being excited about the cord they are wearing, and then the circle of life begins again.

I don't personally have any issues that cadets can impact that I need a council's advice on - that's not to say we are perfect, or I know all - it means I /we have the same issues that 90+% of the units have - too few people, too few resources, and no top-down mandates beyond the marketing collateral.   As a whole my units meet the mandates, we have an encampment in my AOR, two successful wing-level activities, fly the wings off the planes for O-Rides and ES, and are doing fairly well in comparison to the rest of the wing.

I can't reach to the wing for my piece of the puzzle, because there is no plan, wing can't reach to region for the same reason, and region isn't getting anything from NHQ, so everyone is doing it on autopilot, which means mostly flying in circles to check the CI boxes.  Is it possible there is a roadmap of epic proportions that NHQ is executing but I am unaware of because it's not being passed down the chain? Yes, but that should be communicated in the magazine, the website, and word of mouth. 

You tell me to "take that hill", and I can work with that.  Tell me to "take that hill by surrounding it with bulldozers and digging it out from the bottom..." I can work with that too.  Even a generalization like "we have too many hills..." has some action around it, but simply mandating the existence of an advisory body with no guidance or input on what is appropriate for them to advise "on" gets us where we are today.

Is the rest of the country hitting high and hard on the CAC and my wing is unique?  Not based on discussions here and elsewhere or from what we see in national collateral.

Give me some SMART objectives, show me a set of real goals that have concrete issues that really need discussion and advice, then provide some assurance that every once in a while the effort will be appreciated and acted upon beyond arguing over whether I have enough signatures on the check request for the pizza party.

And by the inverse, in the words of a local commander, when I ask for the time, don't build me a clock.

As a mid-point leader (at best) in this organization, insinuating this is somehow my failing in a sea of otherwise successful commanders isn't fair either.  If you were able to point to a string of accomplishments and activity that left cadets with a good feeling about how they were spending their time (like you see with NESA, NBB, encampments, NCSA's, etc.), then I would be willing to accept that this is a local issue and a personal failing, but all we have seen at the national level in the last say 5 years is cadets who are either trying to settle personal scores, fix petty pet peeves, insert themselves into the senior programs, and banquet photos.  The lack of senior guidance at all levels is also clear.  The CAC can't stay in its lane because the lane isn't even marked.

Whenever I have the opportunity (as I did here), I ask cadets what they expect to accomplish in the CAC.  I ask senior leaders who are involved now, and used to be.  I have asked here and on CS.  Other than a few random, dated, examples of specific situations, I have yet to have anyone articulate anything that I can build on to inspire effort, and no one is pushing on me beyond making sure I provide a name.

Like Frazier Crane, I'm listening.

[Майор Хаткевич]

ILWG CAC for the time I was active as a cadet (5 years):

You get a cord.
After a year you get a ribbon.

Requirements: Get in on a conference call once a month, or drive to the middle of nowhere downstate for a face to face.

Point of discussion: committees to find out various findings.

Example: Cadet Retention issues.
Time Frame: 9 Months.
Findings: We need more activities.


CAC Chair vote conference call:
Candidate A "won" a non quorum vote.
Candidate B gets his AFAD/CAP Captain Father to get on the conference call.
Whole conference call becomes an accusation match between two usually outstanding cadets (future Spaatz cadets!) over a position which in the past few years, and from the word of older cadets, has not done anything but earn white ribbons for people.

[Eclipse]

I'm also open to the criticism that these discussions almost always pop up in response to an enthusiastic cadet who just wants to get in the game.

I am as bad as anyone for that.

[DBlair]

Having been on CAC WIWAC and now in my current role interacting with both CAC and the various units, I've noticed some issues that seem to keep coming up...

CAC members all too often (incorrectly) see themselves (whether admitted or not) as a legislative body that actually makes binding decisions, or that has actual power other than delegated tasking to help plan a certain activity, etc. As such, some CAC Reps go back to their units telling the commanders what CAC decided the unit will do, etc.

As a result of this, Commanders don't appreciate having their CAC reps trying to tell them how to run their unit, and it seems they develop a sour taste of CAC as a result of these overzealous CAC Reps. I've had units complain that their CAC Rep told them what (events, activities, unit operations, etc) CAC decided they will do and start acting like they are in some command role merely due to their CAC appointment.

Another issue I've found is that CAC is great at coming up with all sorts of impressive ideas of things they want to do, but then they never/rarely follow through- something again causing units/members to be frustrated with them, and seeing CAC as ineffective.

Personally, I think CAC can be a great tool, a wonderful opportunity, and a good resource if effectively directed with the right SM guidance and the right leadership.

[Hawk200]

Another issue I've found is that CAC is great at coming up with all sorts of impressive ideas of things they want to do, but then they never/rarely follow through- something again causing units/members to be frustrated with them, and seeing CAC as ineffective.

I've also seen CAC members that tried to demand things that were well outside of their abilities to do so.

I was passing through a CAC meeting at a wing conference (only way to get to the restrooms) when one of the cadets told a senior that they wanted Blackhawk rides. I stopped and told them that I had looked into such rides, but the maintenance supervisor for the Blackhawks in our state wasn't going to do it. The cadet tried to tell me that if they told the state director they wanted it they would get it. I replied that those rides were up to the maintenance supervisor of those aircraft, and not him. He was obviously irritated by my news.

A few months later, the maintenance supervisor wanted to talk to me. He asked me if I had told anyone that CAP cadets would be getting rides. I replied that I hadn't, and told him of what occurred at the meeting. Apparently, someone sent the request to the state director anyway about a month after I had told those at the CAC meeting that it wouldn't happen. It seems that the cadet leading that meeting had decided that he wasn't going to accept what I told him. The maintenance supervisor informed me that CAP members might never get such rides because of the "request" made after they were informed that it wouldn't happen.

I've seen some actions and attitudes from CAC members that go against a lot of longstanding courteousies. If you're told "No", you need to accept it. Wait til later to try again.

I don't have issues with a council that is trying to better its people. But sometimes, the niceties you want aren't going to happen just because you want them.

[DBlair]

Agreed. I think what Hawk and I described (regarding CAC thinking it has more power than it does) is probably the root of negative feelings towards CAC.

[addo1]

I would like to address some of these concerns when I have more time. For now, though, I want to get back to the root of this post. Cadet Wardrop is interested in getting involved with the Cadet Advisory Council and has asked for information. She has been given, err, more opinionated comments from what people have experienced in the past.

Cadet Wardrop, I would say this to you - do not let any of these comments get to you. Rather, you might use this as a motivation to do the best you can. The root of success for most anything in life is people. You, your fellow CAC members, and your supporters hold the key to a successful term - it is up to y'all to find where that key fits in. Reading this information and learning the trial/error from past CAC representatives will help you greatly. Again, I hope that you are able to get quite a bit out of the program and find that your council will accomplish its goals.

Also, just out of curiosity, was this at the FLWG encampment that you were taught about CAC?