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Color Guard Components

Started by The Admiral, April 08, 2005, 04:49:47 PM

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The Admiral

I am not sure if this would go here, but I have a problem acquiring Color Guard components of the color guard uniform.  We have the basic stuff, but it doesn't cut it for RCC, or even NCC.  I have a projected minimum cost of $733.40 and a maximum of $2500.00 <-----(for M1 garands, shoes, dry cleaning, etc.)

Any suggestions?  I need money or items.  How can I get this incredible amount of money?

Projected Thunderbird CG Expenses (Excel)

Thanks!

-C/TSgt Steven Thorderson
UTWG Color Guard Commander
Cross into the Blue!

MIKE

It's just my openion... but after looking at your spread-sheet, I think you are going overboard with the stuff you would like to have as opposed to what is required per the NCC ROE... particularly if this is the first time your squadron is participating in NCCGC.

NCC ROE 5.3

As an example, I don't think you need Mrk 1 rifles or M1s from paradestore.com to be competetive... Likewise, you shouldn't need 5 complete Service Uniforms specifically for competition as Cadets are already required to have the minimum basic Service Uniform IAW CAPM 39-1.

If you want to go all out as your spread-sheet suggests, I would not find it unreasonable for the cost of the individual equipment, uniforms, maintenance and other costs be borne by each participant and not by the squadron... Unless fundraisers etc can secure enough funds.
Mike Johnston

md132


I agree.  One thing is that you should not need more than 2 parade rifles because there should only be 2 guards.  The minimum flags that you should have is the US flag and CAP flag.  You could also get State flag if you chose but also get a squadron flag if you don't already have one.  Also the guards should be the only ones wearing the pistol belts.  Flag bearers will not wear pistol belts.  Just the flag carriers.  With uniforms. the minimum basic uniform should be good.  Service Jacket would be recommended but not required.  Why would you need 10 pairs of gloves?  You should only have a min of 4 pairs and a max of 6.  I recommend the Cadet programs officer keep all the color guard equipment.  If you have flags at your squadron they should already have flag poles so that should also cut the cost.  I would also recommend looking around to find the cheapest items.  CAPM 39-1 only suggests having two seperate uniforms but it is not required because of the cost.

For individual items, (Expample: insignias, dry cleaning, etc) should be the responsibility of the individual.  If there is a squadron fund your squadron commander may authorize the rest of the equipment. 

JaL5597

I think your heart is in the right place but your way too overboard.  I think you need to sit down with ROE 5.4 and look very closely at what it specifies.  I think you will be very suprised.  The rules go with minimalistic, not gaudy and flashy.

If you are going to the RCC then you should be provided with the wing flag.

I may be mistaken but I do believe gloves are not allowed under ROE 5.4.  I remember thinking that they were not on the allowed list.

My big comment on there is the $380 for hoodies?  When I went to the RCC on drill team we bought a bunch of tee-shirts and had a parent print logos on them.  It wasn't as flashy as hoodies but we still looked good.

Having been a judge at the wing level and an observer at the RCC level I can tell you that knowing your stuff is a whole lot more important than the look at me aspects. 

Greg

Quote from: The Admiral on April 08, 2005, 04:49:47 PM
I am not sure if this would go here, but I have a problem acquiring Color Guard components of the color guard uniform.  We have the basic stuff, but it doesn't cut it for RCC, or even NCC.  I have a projected minimum cost of $733.40 and a maximum of $2500.00 <-----(for M1 garands, shoes, dry cleaning, etc.)

Any suggestions?  I need money or items.  How can I get this incredible amount of money?

Projected Thunderbird CG Expenses (Excel)

Thanks!

-C/TSgt Steven Thorderson
UTWG Color Guard Commander

Throughout my years as a CG Commander (both at the wing and region level), I've had to deal with this a lot.

First of all, ask your wing if they'd be willing to buy some equipement.  Just remember, if wing buys Color Guard equipement, it becomes the property of the wing color guard.  Fine for you now, but if they get you rifles or something, you'll have to give them to the new wing CG next year.

Second, unless your squadron is really rich or something, don't buy what you don't need.  If you're going to buy CG-specific PT uniforms or something and you don't have the funds, ask if the members of your CG would be willing to buy it themselves.  The same goes for uniform items- why would your squadron buy you new uniforms?  Uniforms and the stuff that goes on them should be bought by the cadet.  Unless of course, your squadron's got so much funds that they're looking to throw money at people (and if this is the case, could you put in a good word for me?  ;D)

For example:


  • Why do you need six pistol belts, while there are only five people on the team?
  • Why do you need three rifles, when you'll only use two?
  • Adding upon the last point, why do you need three rifle cases?
  • Why on earth do you need ten non-slip gloves?  There are five people on the team.
  • What's up with three "rifles" and then three "M1 Garands"?  That's SIX rifles when you only need TWO!
  • Uniform, Extraneous Cost, and Hoodies should be purchased privately.  That said, why do you need ten hoodies?
  • An outdoor flag should be provided at the competition for outdoor practical.  Now, you absolutely need one of your own to practice with, but if worst comes to worst, you can just see if one of the members of the CG has a flag you can use for practices.
Just think about it and use common sense- you want to spend $380 on hoodies and $1,085.25 on rifles!!!???!?


Third, try to find the best cost/quality ratio possible.  I know for a fact you can get a perfectly fine outdoor flag to practice with for much less than $80.  Why do you need $300 M-1 Garands?  The Glendale DrillAmericas are absolutely outstanding rifles for competition, and even the other rifles that Glendale sells (that you actually already have in your budget) are what we used at nationals.  

If you:
  • Buy only two rifles and buy the cheaper ones
  • Buy only five pistol belts
  • Buy only two cases, or buy a two-rifle case
  • Buy only five pairs of gloves
  • Buy a flag from Wal-Mart
  • Have the CG members buy their own uniforms
Your total will come down significantly.  I don't feel like doing the math now, but it's probably less than half of your original total, and you still have everything you need for competition.  


...and last: FUNDRAISE!



EDIT: D'oh, two replies in the time it took me to type this!
C/Maj Greg(ory) Boyajian, CAP
Air Victory Museum Composite Squadron

JaL5597

Quote from: Greg on April 08, 2005, 07:26:11 PM...and last: FUNDRAISE!

So true.  It would so suck to have blown your budget on fancy stuff, and not be able to afford to actually attend the NCC.

MIKE

Quote from: md132 on April 08, 2005, 07:04:23 PM
With uniforms. the minimum basic uniform should be good.  Service Jacket would be recommended but not required.  Why would you need 10 pairs of gloves?  You should only have a min of 4 pairs and a max of 6.  I recommend the Cadet programs officer keep all the color guard equipment.  If you have flags at your squadron they should already have flag poles so that should also cut the cost.  I would also recommend looking around to find the cheapest items.  CAPM 39-1 only suggests having two seperate uniforms but it is not required because of the cost.

For NCC and NCCGC wearing anything but the specified uniforms included in the ROE will cost you points or get you disqualified... As such, I'd advise against Service Dress for NCCGC... Wing and Region competitions can set their own requirements for their respective competitions however IIRC.

Also the NCCGC requires a team of five (5) with two flag-bearers, two guards and an alternate. All of whom will require gloves, pistol belts and cords at some point in the competition.  See the link to the NCC ROE in my post above for details.
Mike Johnston

MIKE

Quote from: JaL5597 on April 08, 2005, 07:19:15 PM
I may be mistaken but I do believe gloves are not allowed under ROE 5.4.  I remember thinking that they were not on the allowed list.

ROE 5.3 is the latest published one that I have seen... On the NCC page.  White gloves are included in 2-2. d. (1) of the ROE.
Mike Johnston