Should customs/courtesies and uniform wear be enforced?

[Eclipse]

This thread is about customs and courtesies and this discussion about whether or not it's okay to wear a flight suit to meetings in a flight ops unit. I maintain that it is if the unit IS a flying unit like ours and flight ops is what we do. We don't consider it "beneath" us to get other ratings (and we do have them), but we take our job seriously and want to do it well. That's why our focus is on flight ops and flight suit is our "standard" uniform.

If flight ops is all you "do", then maybe that's the issue, since you're supposed to be doing more (as a unit) than just flight ops.  You keep making the assertion that you're a "flying unit", which is interesting because that's not a distinction CAP makes.

There are Senior, Cadet, and Composite Squadrons, all with significantly more extensive missions than just flying.

Assuming you're maintaining your flight ticket in any case, being a Mission Pilot doesn't have to cost you anything more once you're qual'ed if you're active and fly at funded activities.

[Rob Sherlin]

 Once again, I agree with Eclipse!........ Let me ask this.......If you were to wear a (non flight) uniform to a meeting where you don't fly every single time, how much trouble would it take to bring your flight suit and change....if you needed to? Or, vise versa.

  Regular military doesn't sit around in their flight suits during normal orientations and lessons...do they?

[Capflyer]

This thread is about customs and courtesies and this discussion about whether or not it's okay to wear a flight suit to meetings in a flight ops unit. I maintain that it is if the unit IS a flying unit like ours and flight ops is what we do. We don't consider it "beneath" us to get other ratings (and we do have them), but we take our job seriously and want to do it well. That's why our focus is on flight ops and flight suit is our "standard" uniform.

If flight ops is all you "do", then maybe that's the issue, since you're supposed to be doing more (as a unit) than just flight ops.  You keep making the assertion that you're a "flying unit", which is interesting because that's not a distinction CAP makes.

There are Senior, Cadet, and Composite Squadrons, all with significantly more extensive missions than just flying.

Assuming you're maintaining your flight ticket in any case, being a Mission Pilot doesn't have to cost you anything more once you're qual'ed if you're active and fly at funded activities.

No that's not an issue. No more than many units are focused on Comm and others on AE, Model Rocketry, Drill Teams, etc. Yes we are a flying unit but we do fulfill our other missions in CAP meaning we support the local cadet units, speak at schools (who usually asks us to wear flight suits) and other events about flying and airplanes, etc, That's Aerospace Education. All the o-flights we do are part of the Cadet Program so we do work for all the three main missions of CAP. Our main focus however is ES and air operations.

Again, my point was about wearing a flight suit to regular meetings and I responded that it depends on what kind of unit you belong to and what they do. Some units wear BDU's most of the time and no one seems to have a problem with that. We do of course proudly wear or blues on other occasions....

[Capflyer]

Once again, I agree with Eclipse!........ Let me ask this.......If you were to wear a (non flight) uniform to a meeting where you don't fly every single time, how much trouble would it take to bring your flight suit and change....if you needed to? Or, vise versa.

  Regular military doesn't sit around in their flight suits during normal orientations and lessons...do they?

No it won't take long to change but again, why should we for our own regular squadron meetings when air ops is what we do?

As for your comment about regular military, I probably shouldn't say it since yoy might think I'm "stuck up" again, but I am former AF regular and yes, we wore our flight suits during our normal duties at our squadron. We did however wear blues for other duties, just like I've stated that we do here in our CAP unit.

[Rob Sherlin]

 Well, this is all FUBAR! I think BDU's should be for the field and other outdoor activities (why do they make them Camo anyway), Blues should be for classrooms, flightsuits for FLYING,and so on, common sense should say the rest. I know there's the whole cost factor.....but that's the way it is....otherwise it's never going to be enforced and the problem will still prevail.

[Rob Sherlin]

Capflyer.......If that's what you do and you fly all the time, then I'm not talking about you!....Take it easy!
I know a lot of pilots, but they don't want to be in that sack most of the time. Then again, I've seen a lot of others who over do it on stating their a pilot (especially around females). You may not be one of these types, but they're out there (look at the original post about flightsuits after the poll).

[Eclipse]

We can't compare the USAF or AFRES to CAP for this discussion - they issue uniforms to their people, provide an allowance for what's not issued, and have a specific UOD that is dictated to them by their superiors or their MOS.

However right now most worldwide are wearing blues on Mondays specifically at the direction of the CSAF to raise the professional appearance of the organization.

Like it or not, flyers, even if they aren't active or flying wear bags as their normal uniform, most other technical people wear BDU's or ABU's, and only the pure office wonks wear service dress everyday.

We're not the USAF or AFRES, so its irrelevant to this discussion what they do, we have our own rules and culture.

[DG]

I was refering to the original poll, and another post stating people showing up in "regular" AF, Navy, or whatever flight suits, when it only takes a few minutes to change if you plan on being at a meeting, when there is no flying activities going on.......That's either just being lazy, showing off that you're a pilot, or just not caring about being in a uniform that fits the purpose of the meeting. Either way, if you plan on being at a meeting in uniform, you have time to change!!!....It's only a zipper or two!

Rob Sherlin,

Your views are not shared by the Air Force.  They wear flight suits all the time, when no flight ops are planned for that day.

So after you straighten out CAP, maybe you can convince the USAF to get it right.

[Rob Sherlin]

 Where did you here this? Maybe your sources are wrong. Think about hanging out all the time in a Nomex flightsuit...........Just think about it and ask why?

  I know someone from the AF Thunderbirds who would say different. As soon as they can change, they go to coveralls or blues.

[Eclipse]

Rob,

On this its right.  The flight suit is the duty uniform for a lot of jobs.

[es_g0d]

I am utterly floored at the anti-flying sentiment expressed by the misconception that the flightsuit is not a uniform.  I assure you that it IS a uniform; I haven't worn BDUs on active duty since 1997, but I wear a utility uniform almost all the time.

Its a uniform that's appropriate where its appropriate ... regular meetings CAN be an appropriate situation.  A wing conference would likely not be an appropriate situation.

If you're a unit commander or designee with the power to make a policy of "no flightsuits at unit meetings," then by all means have at it.  It would be much wiser to say, "next week is the squadron quarterly awards, please wear blues or an equivalent corporate uniform."  Consider conferring with your cadets, if you're lucky enough to have them, when making such a request.

I find that the "aerospace education meeting" to be a particularly motivational time to wear flightsuits--especially for said cadets.

I definitely consider being anti-flightsuit (when its appropriate) to be anti-aircrew, anti-pilot, and ANTI-CAP.  If you harbor such feelings, I'll ask you to take your time and talents elsewhere.

[Rob Sherlin]

 For CAP? Doesn't the regulations prohibit wearing a CAP uniform (flightsuit) for any other business, and visa versa?

[Rob Sherlin]

 You are reading me wrong! I'm not saying the flightsuit should NOT be worn. I'm saying it should only be worn if you're part of a flight crew (pilot or other) who is scheduled to fly...And it should be a CAP flight suit! You guys are taking this too personal! I have nothing against pilots or flightsuits, look at my posts, I'm trying to get my wings myself!!!
  But, you don't have to wear a flightsuit all the time unless you fly all the time........There's no hidden message, or insult, or anything there!....That's what the regs suggest, that's how it should be. Why would you want to hang out in a flightsuit anyway if you know you're not going to be flying?

[Eclipse]

I definitely consider being anti-flightsuit (when its appropriate) to be anti-aircrew, anti-pilot, and ANTI-CAP.  If you harbor such feelings, I'll ask you to take your time and talents elsewhere.

Easy...

Equating not wearing flight suits at non-flight activities with being anti-aircrew is simply making an argument where one does not exist.

The fact of the matter is that they don't call them "bags" for nothing.  Even the most well maintained flight suits generally look pretty sloppy and unkempt.  This isn't anti-flight, this is setting a proper, professional tone and appearance.

[jb512]

Regular military doesn't sit around in their flight suits during normal orientations and lessons...do they?

Yes, we do.

Where did you here this? Maybe your sources are wrong. Think about hanging out all the time in a Nomex flightsuit...........Just think about it and ask why?

  I know someone from the AF Thunderbirds who would say different. As soon as they can change, they go to coveralls or blues.

I'm no Thunderbird pilot, but regular AF aircrew do wear the flight suit as a standard, everyday uniform.  Maybe you should have a chat with your friend and get that clarified. Again, it's a uniform just like the ABU, BDU, blues, etc., and I don't understand the discrimination against aircrew members wearing flightsuits.

As for the post above complaining about pilots who work only on aircrew ratings and nothing else, what's the problem with that? There are plenty of people in CAP who have an interest in one area and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

[Rob Sherlin]

HaHaHa......Eclipse!.......my coffee is all over my desk now!......So true!

[jb512]

Why would you want to hang out in a flightsuit anyway if you know you're not going to be flying?

Because it's a duty uniform for flightcrew members and it's pretty darned comfortable to boot.

[jb512]

I definitely consider being anti-flightsuit (when its appropriate) to be anti-aircrew, anti-pilot, and ANTI-CAP.  If you harbor such feelings, I'll ask you to take your time and talents elsewhere.

The fact of the matter is that they don't call them "bags" for nothing.  Even the most well maintained flight suits generally look pretty sloppy and unkempt.

No.

They don't.

[Gunner C]

Well, this is all FUBAR! I think BDU's should be for the field and other outdoor activities (why do they make them Camo anyway), Blues should be for classrooms, flightsuits for FLYING,and so on, common sense should say the rest. I know there's the whole cost factor.....but that's the way it is....otherwise it's never going to be enforced and the problem will still prevail.

If you go to an AFB you'll see lots of folks who crew aircraft wearing bags who aren't going to fly that day, or that week.  Period.  The commander of a flying unit such as a wing commander will almost always be seen in a bag, but he doesn't fly much.  It's part of the tradition, the culture, and the way they dress.

WIWA CC, as I've said before, the flyers wore bags, the cadet program folks wore BDUs, and one meeting a month we wore blues.  I was the commander, I set the uniform, and no one complained, except the couple of members who refused to wear a uniform at all.  It worked, our programs were really large, both ES and cadet.  How was I wrong?

[Rob Sherlin]

  Pilot or not, you should wear the CAP uniform (flightsuit)! This is not an anti- pilot thread....READ THE POSTS!!!!....If you still can't understand what's going on...how the heck did you ever become a pilot?