Should customs/courtesies and uniform wear be enforced?

[Eclipse]

I beg to differ. It depends on what unit you are in. My unit is a Senior Squadron and flying unit. We are all pilots (many of us former active duty) or aircrew members and we meet in flight suits. Is that inappropriate?

Not if you flew to the meeting.  Otherwise, yes.

[Rob Sherlin]

 Look! A lot of you seem to take on this "better than thou" attitude because you have served in regular service, or are still doing so, are pilots and so fourth. All though I respect your dedication and service to our country, or what you have accomplished, CAP is what CAP is! If you're not satisfied with the uniform rules and courtesies, and feel that you shouldn't have to obey them because of your "regular" service....I feel you're wrong!

[RiverAux]

I beg to differ. It depends on what unit you are in. My unit is a Senior Squadron and flying unit. We are all pilots (many of us former active duty) or aircrew members and we meet in flight suits. Is that inappropriate?

Not if you flew to the meeting.  Otherwise, yes.

The squadron commander is allowed to designate the flight suit for meeting wear if they want. 

[Rob Sherlin]

 Why would a squadron commander approve the wearing of flight suits when no one is going to be flying?

  I'm having a BBQ next weekend.......Everyone bring their welding gear!

[RiverAux]

Because he/she is the Squadron King/Queen in so far as determining the appropriate uniform of the day for squadron events.  Perhaps they have determined that it helps build esprit d corps in the flying unit and saves people money from having to buy other CAP uniforms that the ymay not need. 

[Capflyer]

I beg to differ. It depends on what unit you are in. My unit is a Senior Squadron and flying unit. We are all pilots (many of us former active duty) or aircrew members and we meet in flight suits. Is that inappropriate?

Not if you flew to the meeting.  Otherwise, yes.

Some of us might have flown to the meeting, but that's not the point. In our case, we are all aircrews, we don't have any cadets, and flying is what we do in CAP. We are also responsible for Rapid Response in our side of the state and thus, some of us are "on-call".

I don't see anything inappropriate with this since flight suit is our "standard" uniform.
Some people in our organization does not have any problems with members showing up in BDU's, gold shirts, AF-style blues, gray slacks and white shirts and blue slacks and white shirts to the same meeting as long as they don't show up in flight suits!! I would say a meeting with everyone in flight suits looks the heck of a lot better than the other "mess" we see all the time.

Sounds to me like "it's okay to be proud of what you do in CAP as long as you're not a pilot"...

[Rob Sherlin]

 You gotta' be kidding right?  If your squadron doesnt do that much flying, I don't see anyone being forced to go out and buy a $200 (+) Nomex flightsuit, when other uniforms are more set for the meeting and cheaper. That's why I think there's a bit of "egotism" in play........All I'm saying is...Don't wear a flight suit if you're not expecting to be flying!...If you earned your wings, buy the appropriate badge or patch, and wear them on the appropriate uniform. And if your Commander request you to show up in a flight suit, but you don't even meet near an airfield, and there's been no talk aboult flying at all, maybe you should ask why you're in that uniform!!

  That goes with all uniforms, customs and courtesies (as what the post is about)

[Capflyer]

You gotta' be kidding right?  If your squadron doesnt do that much flying, I don't see anyone being forced to go out and buy a $200 (+) Nomex flightsuit, when other uniforms are more set for the meeting and cheaper. That's why I think there's a bit of "egotism" in play........All I'm saying is...Don't wear a flight suit if you're not expecting to be flying!...If you earned your wings, buy the appropriate badge or patch, and wear them on the appropriate uniform. And if your Commander request you to show up in a flight suit, but you don't even meet near an airfield, and there's been no talk aboult flying at all, maybe you should ask why you're in that uniform!!

No I'm not kidding!  We meet at an ANG base in the flight ops building. We fly all the time, like I said, that's what we do. There is no "egotism" in play. Who would we impress? We are all aircrews. We are a flying squadron and our meetings are all about our flight operations.

Last time I looked in the regs, the flight suit was an approved uniform. Maybe we shouldn't wear our wing badges our blues either? That could be "egotism" too?

[Eclipse]

Some of us might have flown to the meeting, but that's not the point. In our case, we are all aircrews, we don't have any cadets, and flying is what we do in CAP. We are also responsible for Rapid Response in our side of the state and thus, some of us are "on-call".

You are all members of the Civil Air Patrol, and since CAP does not have an MOS system, most of you likely wear any number of hats besides "aircrew".  I don't see the connection to not having cadets. As to the being on call...please.

I don't see anything inappropriate with this since flight suit is our "standard" uniform.

It may be what you all wear, but it is not considered the "standard" uniform for Senior Members, that would be either the blue or white service dress.[/quote]

With that said, the unit CC is certainly within his right to set the flight suit as the UOD for regular meetings, as long as the members understand that they may need something else for activities outside your unit.

[RiverAux]

It may be what you all wear, but it is not considered the "standard" uniform for Senior Members, that would be either the blue or white service dress.

Find me a unit that meets in that EVERY single meeting.  No, in most squadron no uniform of the day is declared and you end up with the horrible mishmash of uniforms that each member decided to wear that day.  Nothing at all wrong with flight suits for a regular meeting. 

[Rob Sherlin]

 So, I can wear just any uniform to a meeting, including a flight suit even though I'm not a pilot or part of a flight crew? I'm sure this would bring up question. And if the rest of you go to meetings where you can wear a flight suit, but don't fly.....I think there's something seriously wrong there!

  Flight Suits are ok if you fly regularly (when you wear them) in that squadron, otherwise, show that you're one of the rest of us and "not stuck up and above because you have wings", and wear a regular uniform like everyone else ( you still get to wear your wings), or are you just lazy and want to just throw on a sack!

[jb512]

Where is all of this flight suit envy coming from?  A flight suit is the primary uniform for flight crew just as the BDU is for ground team, comm, etc.  It looks like the issue with the flight suits is coming from those who don't/can't wear them rather than those who do.

I never understood this thought process before, and even less now that I wear one regularly.  In the AF we wear flight suits everyday and don't have people in ABUs telling us that we shouldn't wear them if we're not on the plane that day.

[Always Ready]

*insert what you said here*

What's the difference with all these people doing everything in polos? I've seen these people wearing it to everything from ground team (in the field) work, flying, airshows, and even award ceremonies. Is that practical? No but they do it anyway. We get after the flyboys and gals for doing the same thing but not the polo people. <sarcasm> Sounds like discrimination to me...call the EEO! </sarcasm>

My thinking is that you should wear the uniform appropriate to what you are doing. Most of us should wear Blues/Corporate Equivalent to the meetings since we aren't flying and are not doing any field work...and no paperwork doesn't count as field work We should wear field uniforms in the field and flight suits while flying. At all times, we should enforce customs and courtesies. It is easy to remember, simple to enforce, and it goes with the spirit of the regulations.

[Short Field]

We are all aircrews. We are a flying squadron and our meetings are all about our flight operations.

We had one of those as well.  All they did was fly -  no work at all toward earning any type of ES qualifications other than MS/MO/MP.   It was considered beneath them.   The Wg/CC finally direct them to stop wearing flight suits to their meetings.   

[Capflyer]

So, I can wear just any uniform to a meeting, including a flight suit even though I'm not a pilot or part of a flight crew? I'm sure this would bring up question. And if the rest of you go to meetings where you can wear a flight suit, but don't fly.....I think there's something seriously wrong there!

  Flight Suits are ok if you fly regularly (when you wear them) in that squadron, otherwise, show that you're one of the rest of us and "not stuck up and above because you have wings", and wear a regular uniform like everyone else ( you still get to wear your wings), or are you just lazy and want to just throw on a sack!

You need to read my posts before you reply. I have never said that it's okay to wear a flight suit to meetings if you're not a pilot or an aircrew member. I don't wear a ground team badge because I'm not qualified for that. My initial response to you was about your generalization in stating that it was not okay to wear a flight suit to meetings. My response was that it depends on what kind of unit you belong to.
In our case, we are a flying unit, flying is what we do and therefore we wear flight suits to our meetings. All our members are aircrews, not all pilots, but at least aircrews. That means we are not "showing off" or pretending to be better than anyone else but just working in our specialty which happens to be flight operations.

As for being "one of the rest of us" as you stated, I have never stated that we are not, nor do we act that way. That statement came from you so that must be your issue.
Just as it's okay for ground team members, communications specialists and others to wear their "standard" uniform, it must be okay for aircrews to wear theirs.

I my mind, all jobs/functions in CAP are important and I don't "look down" on anyone for what specialty they have. But that's a two-way street, aircrews must be allowed to perform their specialty without being accused of "being stuck up because we have wings". That's just an outrageous statement and shows more of a problem on your side than on mine.

[Short Field]

^^^ I belong to one of those.  It is even cheaper than flying my own airplane.  CAP is only cheaper than the flying club if you can get a funded mission.     

[Capflyer]

We are all aircrews. We are a flying squadron and our meetings are all about our flight operations.

We had one of those as well.  All they did was fly -  no work at all toward earning any type of ES qualifications other than MS/MO/MP.   It was considered beneath them.   The Wg/CC finally direct them to stop wearing flight suits to their meetings.   

You have got to be kidding?  First, almost all of our aircrew members and pilots have other ES ratings spanning from UDF, AOBD's to IC's. But, your post makes me wonder if you realize what it really takes to get and maintain a MP rating?? If not, look it up and then add the money it takes just to stay current.

I don't see anything wrong with members "only" having MS/MO/MP ratings just as I don't see any problem with members having "only" GTM/GTL ratings. Think about it, who's out there doing the "search" in search and rescue?
We need our most experienced folks out there and not "pull them in to Mission Base as soon as they have learned their job. But that's a whole other discussion that belongs in the ES thread.

This thread is about customs and courtesies and this discussion about wether or not it's okay to wear a flight suit to meetings in a flight ops unit. I maintain that it is if the unit IS a flying unit like ours and flight ops is what we do. We don't consider it "beneath" us to get other ratings (and we do have them), but we take our job seriously and want to do it well. That's why our focus is on flight ops and flight suit is our "standard" uniform.

However, when the situation warrants a different uniform (wing conferences, courses, etc.), we proudly put on our blues or Class A's and represent our unit. With wings on our chest of course....

CORRECTION, I see that you are an MP so you must know what that means...:-).

[Short Field]

But, your post makes me wonder if you realize what it really takes to get and maintain a MP rating?? If not, look it up and then add the money it takes just to stay current.

Wonder no more.  I own a C-182.  Flying it is the cheap part.   

We need our most experienced folks out there and not "pull them in to Mission Base as soon as they have learned their job.

Just leave the least experienced folks to plan the missions??

[Capflyer]

We need our most experienced folks out there and not "pull them in to Mission Base as soon as they have learned their job.

Just leave the least experienced folks to plan the missions??

Come on, you know better than that and what I mean..... , ...but that's a discussion for another forum.

[Rob Sherlin]

I've read your posts...maybe you missunderstood mine. In the first place, I wasn't talking about you squadrons who fly all the time, so it would make sense for you to wear CAP flight suits. I was refering to the original poll, and another post stating people showing up in "regular" AF, Navy, or whatever flight suits, when it only takes a few minutes to change if you plan on being at a meeting, when there is no flying activities going on.......That's either just being lazy, showing off that you're a pilot, or just not caring about being in a uniform that fits the purpose of the meeting. Either way, if you plan on being at a meeting in uniform, you have time to change!!!....It's only a zipper or two!