In defense of wannabes

[AlphaSigOU]

Well said, Jackie!

[Dragoon]

In other words, are you focused on the feeling that comes from the work, or the feeling that comes from the costume?

Does it matter?  If someone is getting the job done without being a jerk (which can be a result of many things), then what do we care what their motivation is?  Its the results that counts in my book.  If a guy's sole reason to be in CAP is to get to wear an AF-style uniform while flying a plane, thats just fine by me so long as he answers the phone when I'm looking for a crew. 

This was one of the main points I was trying to make. 

I think a lot of the posts in this thread outline the problems.

Sooner or later, a person's inner motivations are going to affect their behavior.  People simply can't divorce their inner and outer selves.   Yup, I do care about why you're here.  Because years of CAP command jobs have taught me that at some point I'm gonna end up dealing with the "inner senior member."

If you're here to serve, you're likely to help out even when it's not an exciting or fun tasking.  If you're devoted to the mission and the team, I can count on you.  If you're only  devoted to looking cool, garnering salutes, or impressing cadets with your war stories.........all bets are off.

[LittleIronPilot]

In other words, are you focused on the feeling that comes from the work, or the feeling that comes from the costume?

Does it matter?  If someone is getting the job done without being a jerk (which can be a result of many things), then what do we care what their motivation is?  Its the results that counts in my book.  If a guy's sole reason to be in CAP is to get to wear an AF-style uniform while flying a plane, thats just fine by me so long as he answers the phone when I'm looking for a crew. 

This was one of the main points I was trying to make. 

Most excellent point sir.

[Monty]

I think a lot of the posts in this thread outline the problems.

Sooner or later, a person's inner motivations are going to affect their behavior.  People simply can't divorce their inner and outer selves.   Yup, I do care about why you're here.  Because years of CAP command jobs have taught me that at some point I'm gonna end up dealing with the "inner senior member."

If you're here to serve, you're likely to help out even when it's not an exciting or fun tasking.  If you're devoted to the mission and the team, I can count on you.  If you're only  devoted to looking cool, garnering salutes, or impressing cadets with your war stories.........all bets are off.

Advance this guy to the head of the class; he gets it.  Thumbs up.

[flyguy06]

Depends - is it because you wanna fly, or because you hope your friends will be impressed with your wings and your flightsuit?

Would you quit CAP if USAF put us in a non-USAF uniform?

Are you in CAP to serve, or to feel like a warrior?

In other words, are you focused on the feeling that comes from the work, or the feeling that comes from the costume?

Good questions. First of all, I am a warrior. I joined CAP to make a difference. To motivate young people to pursue careers in aviation and the military. To show youth that if you perservere you can achieve your goals, and yes,  I like the flightsuits. Sue me 

[ZigZag911]

The 'bling', C &C , and so forth, are CAP's 'fringe benefits'....nice to have, but the truly dedicated member can live without them.

If you're here for the superficial stuff, you're missing the heart of the program -- and probably won't last too long!

[Stonewall]

The 'bling', C &C , and so forth, are CAP's 'fringe benefits'....nice to have, but the truly dedicated member can live without them.

If you're here for the superficial stuff, you're missing the heart of the program -- and probably won't last too long!

If we didn't have the "bling" (uniforms & accouterments), D&C and so forth, it wouldn't be a military program.  In essence, it wouldn't be CAP.  Personally, I joined CAP.

Seriously, I think the folks who aren't interested or down right against the military aspect of CAP, i.e. the uniforms, chain of command, rank, customs and courtesies, D&C, etc., are either the gung-ho SAR types that are in it solely for the Search & Rescue part of CAP or the die-hard aviators.  I often hear (or read) "who cares about all that military stuff when I'm 2,000 ft AGL", or the guy with the attitude that says "I'm here to save lives, all that military stuff is for the birds".

I would honestly never consider CAP an option to dedicate my time, money and efforts if I wasn't interested in all the things that some call "fringe benefits".  I could join USCG Aux, a number of different SAR organizations or a local flying club if I wanted nothing to do with the Cadet Program, where a majority of all the fringe benefits are. 

[flyguy06]

We always say in my Squadron that awards and medals are the "pay" we recieve in CAP. Members do a lot with no pay,so commanders need to make it a priority to recognize members, give them awards in front of the group. that is our paycheck

[LittleIronPilot]

One thing that I must I admit to being confused on is the "duality" that some are advocating.

So let me get this straight...we are supposed to be teaching leadership, discipline, etc. to our cadets through this program and its structure. Then telling them that "none of that crap matters" once they become a senior as it is a bunch of pooey.

First, there are a LOT of adults that could use leadership training. It is funny how college and life may make you proficient in a career field but it often teachings NOTHING of actual leadership.

Being physically fit is IMPORTANT to a cadet, but matters naught to a Senior.

I mean what the heck are we teaching cadets? Do as I say, not as I do?

I am with Stonewall...without CAP being what it is today, I would not be a part of CAP. Instead I would find other areas to, perhaps the my SDF, or even going back to being a reserve Police Officer instead.

[flyguy06]

One thing that I must I admit to being confused on is the "duality" that some are advocating.

So let me get this straight...we are supposed to be teaching leadership, discipline, etc. to our cadets through this program and its structure. Then telling them that "none of that crap matters" once they become a senior as it is a bunch of pooey.

First, there are a LOT of adults that could use leadership training. It is funny how college and life may make you proficient in a career field but it often teachings NOTHING of actual leadership.

Being physically fit is IMPORTANT to a cadet, but matters naught to a Senior.

I mean what the heck are we teaching cadets? Do as I say, not as I do?

I am with Stonewall...without CAP being what it is today, I would not be a part of CAP. Instead I would find other areas to, perhaps the my SDF, or even going back to being a reserve Police Officer instead.

I agree but when you arent paying adults you cant really make them do too much. Adults do need leadership. But many, and I can only speak for my unit wont do the military thing . heck I cant even get them to come to meetings. They dont look at CAP the same way a Cat looks at CAP. To adults, CAP is something they do on "their" itme when they have the time. Its not a commitment thing like it is to cadts. Again, some signle senior members or senior members that have money may have the time to commit to CAP but when you work 40 hours, take care of a family and pay bills, you just cant commit to it the way a Cadet can

[Stonewall]

... heck I cant even get them to come to meetings. They dont look at CAP the same way a Cat looks at CAP. To adults, CAP is something they do on "their" itme when they have the time. Its not a commitment thing like it is to cadts. Again, some signle senior members or senior members that have money may have the time to commit to CAP but when you work 40 hours, take care of a family and pay bills, you just cant commit to it the way a Cadet can

Me personally, I never even attempt to persuade seniors to do anything.  I don't recruit, bargain with or beg.  It's hard at first, when you're building a program, but I always have the expectation that I'll be in it alone for at least 6 months.  But once you get it going, the old saying of "build it and they will come"" rings true.  I didn't give seniors an option, even though, by regulation, they have one.  They showed up in the UOD because they felt awkward if they wore anything else.  Had a flight (in formation) of seniors wearing BDUs that numbered up to 12 and 15, standing right next to cadets.  Many will say "no way, you can't make me wear BDUs and stand in formation", and that's fine, but you'll be the only dork standing on the sideline while everyone else is looking the part of a team.  Remember, sympathizers are spectators, empathizers wear game shoes...

[Short Field]

I didn't give seniors an option, even though, by regulation, they have one. 

[CAP_truth]

When I was a cadet we had a flight of seniors standing next to us during opening and closing formations every week. They worn the same uniform as was required for cadets. NO senior ever complained about it. When I was squadron commander I had my seniors fall in for formation it was just part of the meeting. Senior were required to be in uniform and they were not wannabes, they were members of the unit.

[LittleIronPilot]

The seniors in my squadron are almost ALWAYS in uniform. Now granted it may not always be the same as the cadets, but some sort of uniform is always worn. We also fall-in for formation, the posting of the colors, saluting the flag, etc. for EVERY MEETING.

I like Stonewall's approach. You build a strong program and they will come. If they do come and do not want to partake in what the rest of the squadron is doing then they can stand on the side and look silly....and miss out on the training and camaraderie the rest of the seniors are getting.

While we ALWAYS recognize that "life" gets in the way sometimes, we are trying to instill in people that the CAP *is* a commitment and that while you can join just to have something to do "when you have the time" they will not get much out of it, not get the calls unless they are the last of the barrel, not get promoted....not get much since they do not give much.

Again...to me the change needs to be that this IS serious stuff and requires as much commitment as one reasonably can give.

[Dragoon]

Remember, there's a big difference between "being military" and "being USAF."

Imagine a CAP with everyone in corporate service dress and blue BDUs.   Seniors saluting.  Holding formations.  Giving out ribbons, medals and badges for achievements.  Teaching cadets a military style of leadership.  And actually following it ourselves.

It could happen (it ain't gonna, but it COULD).  There is absolutely zero need to have "U.S." on the collar, or to wear a green nomex fighter pilot suit to have such an organization.

There is absolutely nothing wannabee about subscribing to a military model.  It's a good way to run an organization that deals with crisis situations.

The worry is the guy whose focus is on self glory.  He desperately HOPES folks will mistake him for a snake eater, or zipper suited sun god.  He hangs with cadets because, frankly, they are easy to impress.  He works hard to earn medals, and is nowhere to be found when the job carries no external recognition.    This guy clings on to his USAF trappings with both hands - because his self image is a little to closely tied to that fantasy.

Just because someone is anti-"pretend to be a warrior" doesn't neccesarily mean they are anti-"military."   

Also, remember the thousands of USAF civilians, from the intel analysts to the SECAF.  No uniforms, no grade titles.  And yet they've got more Air Force Blue in their veins that most of us can ever aspire to.

Sure, we've got members who just want a golf-shirted flying club.  Or just want to be den mothers to their offspring.  But....

You can believe that "CAP is an integral part of the Air Force" and still believe that CAP doesn't need a military model to serve in that role..
You can also believe that "CAP should be military" and still believe that CAP members don't need look like USAF officers.

[SAR-EMT1]

OK, Ive held my tongue for a while but guess I'll weigh in...

How do you spot a wannabe? He writes an essay validating himself to others... that said, here is my novella...


Almost everything that Ddelaney103 mentioned in his post from the 16th rings true for me. So much so that he might have had me in mind while writing his post.

I want better PME standards-- because the first step in improving oneself is the attainment of knowledge.

Yes I think a commission or something similar would be nice. ...Or something similar to the RAFVR (T) -- It would show the Air Force cares about us. (On another topic folks compared how the CGAux is looked well on by the AD- CG
and how while they were in the AD-AF they had not even heard of CAP. Or how with the exception of the CAPUSAF types at NHQ the majority of our attention comes from SDs and CAPRAP.) -- Having a piece of paper and better PME might get us more recognition from the Air Force. As in: more AF types knowing we exsist.

I dont care about folks telling me Im awesome, If I needed that I'd read the cards and thank you notes I recieve from former patients at my EMS job.  

I mentioned in another thread that I want less technicolor bling and if we could look more like the Air Force GREAT! -- but thats solely based on public perception and professional image. If we look like a cartoon character or Peruvian Field Marshal we wont be taken seriously.

I think that having a college degree to be an officer or rise to field grades in CAP might be nice but it may not be practicable.  I would point out that I do not have a bachelors degree myself. Just an associates and a buttload of credits towards a bachelors.

I did go to college and was in the ROTC program, but I got dropped against my will and I havent been able to get back in. I see CAP not as a replacment to the Air Force but as the next best thing. Yes I want some things for CAP but I am not a poser.
I would not wear a good conduct medal or other military ribbon Im not entitled to. (Though I am sadly proud of the two or three ribbons I earned in ROTC) I do not go around trolling for salutes or shoving my ID card in peoples faces. I am an EMS type so I do have a SMALL jump kit configured into my field gear. (It doesnt have a backboard or any crap like that) I do not have a Kbar on my LBE, Ive been to Benning but I dont know the colour of the bloody boathouse at Hereford. (pronounced Harryford)

Ideally I would want to be able to do the same thing for the Air Force that i do for the Coast Guard as an Auxxie: AUGMENT. Because I think that many CAP types myself included could serve a useful purpose on base.

Til then I will happily and humbly serve as a CAP REMF personnel / admin/ pd type.

//
Novella done
...
Someone please beat me upside the head before I say something really stoopid  

[JayT]

I want better PME standards-- because the first step in improving oneself is the attainment of knowledge.

Definately, can't go wrong with that.

Yes I think a commission or something similar would be nice. ...Or something similar to the RAFVR (T) -- It would show the Air Force cares about us. (On another topic folks compared how the CGAux is looked well on by the AD- CG
and how while they were in the AD-AF they had not even heard of CAP. Or how with the exception of the CAPUSAF types at NHQ the majority of our attention comes from SDs and CAPRAP.) -- Having a piece of paper and better PME might get us more recognition from the Air Force. As in: more AF types knowing we exsist.

Answer this, why does the average Airman need to know CAP exists? We don't make his/her life any easier, so other then to make our own members feel better, whats really the point?

I wouldn't mind seeing a VR(T) type thing, but the British military is also fundamentally different then the American military, culture wise.

Also, are you willing to see some regulations/laws rewritten to make us feel better about CAP? Doesn't Congress set caps on the number of officers/EM's that the Air Force can have? Would you want to go through that effort to change those laws and caps?

I think that having a college degree to be an officer or rise to field grades in CAP might be nice but it may not be practicable.  I would point out that I do not have a bachelors degree myself. Just an associates and a buttload of credits towards a bachelors.

Why? I mean, I just finished my third semester of school, and I haven't learned anything that'll help me with CAP. If we have issues with the Professional Development, lets fix them. Deciding that only guys who went to college can be field grade officers is elitist crap in this outfit.

I see CAP not as a replacment to the Air Force but as the next best thing.

But CAP and the regular Air Force are such widely different things that you really can't compare.

Ideally I would want to be able to do the same thing for the Air Force that i do for the Coast Guard as an Auxxie: AUGMENT. Because I think that many CAP types myself included could serve a useful purpose on base.

Are you sure?

I think this has been brought up, but does the Air Force really need augmenting? Would a few volunteers really make much of a difference?

[Hawk200]

I think this has been brought up, but does the Air Force really need augmenting? Would a few volunteers really make much of a difference?

Just so I understand your viewpoint, define "a few".

[JayT]

I think this has been brought up, but does the Air Force really need augmenting? Would a few volunteers really make much of a difference?

Just so I understand your viewpoint, define "a few".

Well, lets say that we do put in place some sort of Air Force Base augment program. How many of our members would/could really partipate? And how could they really help?

From my limited experience, all of the Coast Guard stations in my area are small bases, with a pretty small number of Guardsmen. I can see how an additional twenty or what ever USCGAux guys could help there. But could twenty or thirty CAPers really help out much on...lets say Andrews or Mountain Home AFB?

If CAP members had the option of helping out regular Air Force units, what could they do? Paperwork? JAG work? Make coffee? Clean the buildings? Is that stuff that the Air Force really has a crushing shortage of personal in?

[Walkman]

If CAP members had the option of helping out regular Air Force units, what could they do? Paperwork? JAG work? Make coffee? Clean the buildings? Is that stuff that the Air Force really has a crushing shortage of personal in?

If there was a way to be involved in helping Big Blue, I'd be in . Hill AFB is about 45 minutes from me. I don't know what I could do to help, but I'd be willing.