Tracking Community Service Hours

[DakRadz]

I'm back! Well... Okay, maybe not. But I'll try to check in periodically cause everyone here makes me all warm and fuzzy.

Anyway, on to the topic. Is there any way to track CS hours through eServices?

I need CS hours due to the amount of snow days this year- seniors cannot stay into the summer, so it's either CS or Saturday School. I know I have 40-50~ hours through CAP, so I need a signed comfirmation of my CS hours, which I had consolidated through CAP at my other unit.

I think that my old unit kept track of them for cadets via Excel or some such, but they have told me it's in eServices. So before I begin a drawn out discussion between myself and the two CAP units in question (new and old), I'd like to know what I'm looking for.

[Eclipse]

Anyway, on to the topic. Is there any way to track CS hours through eServices?

No.

I need CS hours due to the amount of snow days this year- seniors cannot stay into the summer, so it's either CS or Saturday School. I know I have 40-50~ hours through CAP, so I need a signed comfirmation of my CS hours, which I had consolidated through CAP at my other unit.

This is going to be between you and your unit CC. As a commander I would not be inclined to be signing a CS letter after the fact just so a cadet could avoid summer school.

[jimmydeanno]

Just to clarify this a bit. 

It sounds like your school has given the option of using community service time to fulfill the number of school hours that you have missed because of snow.

Being a CAP cadet, you are interested in applying the time that you do CAP to that. Right?  If I were you, i would just look at the calendar, type up a memorandum and list the dates and amount of hours that you volunteered.  Get your commander to sign it, and you're good.

However, it certainly does beg the question of whether or not simply volunteering with CAP qualifies as community service.  If your primary function at the squadron is being served (picture a C/Amn that only goes on trips, listens to classes and drills in formation) are you really doing community service because the only person benefiting from your volunteer time is you.  Whereas, a C/SSgt who is leading drill, classes, etc is providing a service to the cadets below him.  Hmmm, might be something I think on a bit more.

[DakRadz]

Just to clarify this a bit. 

It sounds like your school has given the option of using community service time to fulfill the number of school hours that you have missed because of snow.

Correct.

I need CS hours due to the amount of snow days this year- seniors cannot stay into the summer, so it's either CS or Saturday School. I know I have 40-50~ hours through CAP, so I need a signed comfirmation of my CS hours, which I had consolidated through CAP at my other unit.

This is going to be between you and your unit CC. As a commander I would not be inclined to be signing a CS letter after the fact just so a cadet could avoid summer school.

Not at all, sir. Seniors are not allowed to extend our schooling into the summer, because we must graduate. No other grades have this option, they just get the school year extended by the number of missed days.
They give us the option of either proving we did CS, or sitting in Saturday School.

Being a CAP cadet, you are interested in applying the time that you do CAP to that. Right?  If I were you, i would just look at the calendar, type up a memorandum and list the dates and amount of hours that you volunteered.  Get your commander to sign it, and you're good.

However, it certainly does beg the question of whether or not simply volunteering with CAP qualifies as community service.  If your primary function at the squadron is being served (picture a C/Amn that only goes on trips, listens to classes and drills in formation) are you really doing community service because the only person benefiting from your volunteer time is you.  Whereas, a C/SSgt who is leading drill, classes, etc is providing a service to the cadets below him.  Hmmm, might be something I think on a bit more.

I agree with you here, but I'm talking about CS I did outside of CAP, which my other unit would follow for cadets each time we brought in confirmed hours. I didn't realize that cadets are required to keep track of their own and turn it in at the 60 hour mark- I don't disagree, I just didn't know.
Out of the ~45 hours I mentioned, every one of them is for Toys for Tots; I volunteered with the program because I enjoy the mission, not to rack up CS hours. Now I have a chance to use them to keep my weekends open for sports, CAP, more CS, etc.

Anyway, on to the topic. Is there any way to track CS hours through eServices?

No.

Game, set, match. Thank you sir.

[Eclipse]

If you worked with Toys For Tots, go to them and ask for verification and leave CAP out of it.

[s.imbriale]

It sounds like this cadet has switched units and was trying to find out if the community service that was documented from his old unit was transferred to his new unit.  I would say probably not. It's not documented on services and unless it was in the hard copy of your cadet record when you transferred your new unit won't have anything on it.

However, I would absolutely say that CAP can count as community service, especially if you're in a staff position.  Almost everything you do in CAP helps the community, either directly or indirectly. The SAR training you perform helps you to be ready to serve when your community is in need. The training you provide to lower cadets is helping to shape the future of your community.   This isn't even mentioning the community events your squadron may participate in.  And to top it off, you don't get paid. I would absolutely agree with the above suggestion: Gen up a memo with the dates of your meetings and activities and request it signed through your chain of command. I'm sure they'll take care of it for you.

Good luck and congratulations on your upcoming graduation! 

[Eclipse]

However, I would absolutely say that CAP can count as community service, especially if you're in a staff position.  Almost everything you do in CAP helps the community, either directly or indirectly. The SAR training you perform helps you to be ready to serve when your community is in need. The training you provide to lower cadets is helping to shape the future of your community.   This isn't even mentioning the community events your squadron may participate in.  And to top it off, you don't get paid. I would absolutely agree with the above suggestion: Gen up a memo with the dates of your meetings and activities and request it signed through your chain of command. I'm sure they'll take care of it for you.

Cadets, for the most part, are being served.  Unit meetings and regular participation by cadets, and even seniors, is not "community service".

[MSG Mac]

Service as a staff member is not "Community Service" as defined by CAPR 39-3

i. Community Service Ribbon. Awarded to members who complete 60 hours of community service outside of Civil Air Patrol. The service must be verified by a volunteer coordinator. Community service projects conducted by CAP units do not qualify for this recognition. A bronze clasp may be added for each additional 60 hours of community service.

Contact your old command and have them verify the hours you have accumulated and than contact the organizations that have been served to verify any extra hours on letterhead stationary.

[s.imbriale]

That regulation is in reference to the community service award.  I agree, if this were for the award given by CAP, time during CAP would clearly not count for the award. But this isn't about the award; it's about the overall service the cadets often times provide to their communities. They are volunteering their time to help better their communities and the nation.

Cadets may be served by us, the senior members, but they are still absolutely serving their communities.  Community service is time volunteered which benefits a community or its non-profit institutions." Civil air patrol cadets volunteer their time a lot more than most kids. Teenagers these days often times sit on the couch and play video games. CAP cadets go out and help their communities in numerous ways and they do it for free.   

Yes, there are certainly more definite examples of community service, but overall, what CAP cadets do is pretty darn close and shouldn't be disregarded.

[lordmonar]

Anyone want to talk about the stupidity of the whole concept?

Okay we have some law or standard that says "students must have XX hours to graduate/complete the school year".

We have a second law/standard that says that seniors can't take summer school after the graduate.

The had a lot of snow days....so they have to make up those missed days.......

Okay....so far so good.....

So....the option is Satruday School or Community Service?

WTF OVER!?!?!?

How does picking up trash along the highway equate to a day learining your three R's?

This really drives me up the wall! 

End of rant.

As for allowing CAP time to count as community service for the school.....well that is between the school and the student.
I, as a former commander, would certainly say that some of our senoir cadets are serving the community by helping the community.

[ol'fido]

Community service is OK because having our kids have high self esteem and feeling good about themselves is much more important than knowing how to read, write, do math, etc. in our current educational culture.

[Ed Bos]

Cadets, for the most part, are being served.  Unit meetings and regular participation by cadets, and even seniors, is not "community service".

Cite?

[Eclipse]

Cadets, for the most part, are being served.  Unit meetings and regular participation by cadets, and even seniors, is not "community service".

Cite?

Cite what?

A cadet attending a regular meeting is receiving service from the senior members that actually run that unit and CAP as a whole
in the form training, discipline, CDI, etc.  Even those who are appointed to staff positions are receiving life lessons on leadership, etc.
That's the whole point of the CP, and the very nature and definition of the term "cadet".

Certainly internally to CAP unit meetings would never qualify for a CSR, and to try an quantify generic participation in CAP as "community service",
especially in this context where the cadet is trying to avoid missed school time is a stretch, at best.

Perhaps if the unit cleaned a highway, forcibly assisted the elderly across the street, or worked in a homeless shelter, then there is room for
some discussion, but not the simple participation in regular meetings.

On the whole, the cadet program is about what young people take from the program, and the senior side is about giving back.  That's not
an indictment or a negative comment, but a simple statement of fact.

[s.imbriale]

You Sir were clearly never a cadet.

DakRadz, go to you commander; explain the issue to him and I'm sure he will try to assist you.

[RobertAmphibian]

A cadet attending a regular meeting is receiving service from the senior members that actually run that unit and CAP as a whole
in the form training, discipline, CDI, etc.  Even those who are appointed to staff positions are receiving life lessons on leadership, etc.
That's the whole point of the CP, and the very nature and definition of the term "cadet".

And a volunteer at the animal shelter, soup kitchen, etc, is not receiving training, life lessons and other leadership benefits from senior volunteers? So it's only service when you're at the top? I don't totally agree that being a CAP cadet counts as community service, but certainly it's far closer to community service as a cadet officer.

[Eclipse]

The intent and point of an animal shelter or soup kitchen is external service of non-members.  Whether or not those internal to the organization
grow in their own abilities is a non-core part of its mission.

The intent and point of the CAP Cadet Program is the growth and development of its members.  Whether or not people external to the organization
are served by those members is a non-core part of its mission.

Our cadets are heads and shoulders above their peers because of their initiative, bearing, and and yes, service before self, but those community service
opportunities are tangential to the week-to-week normal program schedule, or are side-effects separate to the actual core program.

Bottom line is that participation in regular weekly meetings is not "community service" in and of itself in the way that the school intended it (which sounds like a typical school-boardian way to meet an unfunded state mandate ).

Another things I guess I don't understand is why this cadet would expect CAP to substantiate service to another organization instead of
just going direct to them to start with.  If I was the school I wouldn't accept the Red Cross telling me someone had served with the local CERT
team, I would expect the CERT team to tell me.

[lordmonar]

While I'll agree that those cadets who are just attending meetings as C/AB's are being served.......but the C/Maj who is running the program are providing just as much community service as the senior member CDC or Leadership Officer.

So....back to the OP.

Go to your commander and ask him if he will sign off any or all of your CAP time as community service.

[N Harmon]

Anyone want to talk about the stupidity of the whole concept?

[...]

How does picking up trash along the highway equate to a day learining your three R's?

I had the same reaction. A better idea would be to give credit for "supplementary instruction", like taking piano lessons or karate instruction. In which case I think CAP would apply, as would some (but not all) forms of community service.

[DakRadz]

I agree with you here, but I'm talking about CS I did outside of CAP, which my other unit would follow for cadets each time we brought in confirmed hours. I didn't realize that cadets are required to keep track of their own and turn it in at the 60 hour mark- I don't disagree, I just didn't know.
Out of the ~45 hours I mentioned, every one of them is for Toys for Tots; I volunteered with the program because I enjoy the mission, not to rack up CS hours. Now I have a chance to use them to keep my weekends open for sports, CAP, more CS, etc.

Anyway, on to the topic. Is there any way to track CS hours through eServices?

No.

Game, set, match. Thank you sir.

Read that which I highlighted.

I am not asking to use CAP time. My other unit actually tracked outside Community Service for us. I am hunting down THOSE hours.

Specific question was answered. [/Thread]

[s.imbriale]

Sounds like this cadet already has his questioned answered.

Eclipse, I understand what you're  saying, and I partially agree. The standard C/AB attending weekly meetings is not community service.  However,  a staff member who devotes time before the meeting to planning, time during the meeting teaching, time after the meeting planning and time throughout the week participating in maybe a SAREX, mission, color guard practice, CAC meeting, parade or any other activity is certainly helping out his community, both directly and indirectly.

My point is that overall, what the majority of these cadets are doing, either for themselves or their community, is far beyond the level expected from most teenagers.  And if we can help them out, even just a little bit, by saying what they do is community service, then by all means, we should.  After all, it's sill my opinion that the majority of what they do is community service.

Alas, this is just my opinion and I suppose these types of situations will vary on a case by case basis.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I would definitely consider meeting time that was spent on ES training to be community service. It would just depend on the who is the cadet that is asking, and how much they really do take advantage of the training and try to learn. ES training really, to me, sounds like community service, they are training to assist in search and rescue and disaster relief. I don't see a better example of community service than to give of your time to prepare to rescue those who cannot save themselves. Sounds like a lot of community service to me.

[Ed Bos]

Cadets, for the most part, are being served.  Unit meetings and regular participation by cadets, and even seniors, is not "community service".

Cite?

Cite what?

A cadet attending a regular meeting is receiving service from the senior members that actually run that unit and CAP as a whole
in the form training, discipline, CDI, etc.  Even those who are appointed to staff positions are receiving life lessons on leadership, etc.
That's the whole point of the CP, and the very nature and definition of the term "cadet".

Certainly internally to CAP unit meetings would never qualify for a CSR, and to try an quantify generic participation in CAP as "community service", especially in this context where the cadet is trying to avoid missed school time is a stretch, at best.

Perhaps if the unit cleaned a highway, forcibly assisted the elderly across the street, or worked in a homeless shelter, then there is room for some discussion, but not the simple participation in regular meetings.

On the whole, the cadet program is about what young people take from the program, and the senior side is about giving back.  That's not an indictment or a negative comment, but a simple statement of fact.

"Regular participation," is indeed community service. If you choose to exclude meeting nights as not service-oriented then I could see your point as something bearing consideration.

IMHO participation by cadets at:
- ES activities,
- supporting events like air shows,
- marching in the town Memorial Day parade,
... et cetera, are all community service.

This includes unit meeting nights in a similar way that direction-finding training is the same sort of service as an ELT search at an airport.

Participation by senior members at any activity certainly doesn't need to be excluded from counting as community service, including meeting nights.

Your comment seemed both an indictment and a negative comment. While cadets certainly have a different function in the Civil Air Patrol in many ways their "community service" is as valuable and rewarding to the community as that of Senior Members, as evidenced by the fact that they earn the same Service Ribbon.

If you didn't mean your remarks to appear as an indictment or a negative comment then I accept your contribution in the manner in which it was intended.  I hope you come to consider your cadets and seniors to be contributing to the community, and maybe consider recognizing their CAP service using the President's Volunteer Service Award Program, or something like it.

http://www.presidentialserviceawards.gov/

[Eclipse]

PVSA = Huge waste of time.

Self-certifying awards everyone qualifies for that you have to buy yourself have zero value.

[s.imbriale]

PVSA = Huge waste of time.

Self-certifying awards everyone qualifies for that you have to buy yourself have zero value.

Are you serious?  Yeah, if you award it to yourself!  But not if you give it to a cadet(s) in your unit as a thank you.  This is exactly the kind of the thing a young cadet would love to have and would probably cherish for awhile. 

Awards are the cheapest and sometimes best retention tool out there.  It literally takes less than an hour to nominate a person and usually cost .85 cents. It shows a great deal of consideration and appreciation on your part and it can go a long way in keeping people who feel that their actions go unnoticed.

The President's Volunteer Service Award Program may cost a little more, but it's an even easier way to show your appreciation to cadets and seniors.

[ColonelJack]

Community service is OK because having our kids have high self esteem and feeling good about themselves is much more important than knowing how to read, write, do math, etc. in our current educational culture.

Sounds like you've read the Federal Education Law front to back.  (I'm not being sarcastic.  Among my many income-producing activities, the one that pays the full-time bills is teaching.  I agree with what you've said about school 100%.  And I think it stinks.  In fact, on the first day of school, I make sure my students know that I don't care two buckets of swill about their self-esteem ... I'm here to teach them history.  If they want to feel good about themselves, learn the stuff and earn an "A".  They'll feel great.)

Jack

[Eclipse]

PVSA = Huge waste of time.

Self-certifying awards everyone qualifies for that you have to buy yourself have zero value.

Are you serious?  Yeah, if you award it to yourself!  But not if you give it to a cadet(s) in your unit as a thank you.  This is exactly the kind of the thing a young cadet would love to have and would probably cherish for awhile. 

Awards are the cheapest and sometimes best retention tool out there.  It literally takes less than an hour to nominate a person and usually cost .85 cents. It shows a great deal of consideration and appreciation on your part and it can go a long way in keeping people who feel that their actions go unnoticed.

The President's Volunteer Service Award Program may cost a little more, but it's an even easier way to show your appreciation to cadets and seniors.

100% serious - the PVSA isn't even worth the postage it costs to mail the certificate, especially to CAP.

Want to show your appreciation for someone's CAP service?  Write a good narrative and submit them for an award that actually means
something and can be worn on the uniform like a Comm Comm.

"We're all special pins" might be the norm in today's school systems, but we're about more than that, and my personal experience has been that
those who are most excited about things like the PVSA are, in general, award trolls who will look for every possible way to get something new
on their wall.

This, like many programs of this nature, was very close to actually having value, but they blew it.  If it were in some way moderated at a level
that meant something, and the awards were at least sent at no cost, at least they'd have some psuedo-value, but in its current iteration,
anyone can be a certifying body (I know because I am one), and anyone can list anything as community service.

Based on the published criteria, any and all CAP members who are moderately active in a given year qualify for the bronze, and most would qualify for
lifetime at the gate as well.

Hardly the Medal of Freedom.

[s.imbriale]

I agree that an actual CAP award like a Comm Comm or the new achievement award would be ideal in many situations. Unfortunately, I'm sure there are units and wings out there that think cadets shouldn't be awarded that level of award. I certainly disagree, and was fortunate enough to be trained in a Wing and Region that believed cadets are entitled to every decoration seniors are.  I know that when I was a cadet and traveled to other activities and events outside my region, I was approached on several occasions by members who thought I had just put on my meritorious service award and commanders commendations because I thought they looked nice.

Either way, I wouldn't be so quick to disregard the PVSA or similar programs. I do see your point, but I'm sure there are many people who would be thrilled to receive such appreciation.  Even a little pin or piece of paper can go a long way in retaining some individuals. Even a letter of appreciation from the unit would suffice in many cases.