Parent/child pairs- how did you get started in CAP?

[UH60guy]

Here's my question since (oh crap oh crap oh crap) my wife is due in to give birth to our first child in five days (that's due in 5 days, not that she cranks out one per week):

For those parent-child pairs in CAP, how did your child get interested in CAP? Was there "encouragement" on your end? Or did their curiosity over where mon/dad went every week in the spiffy uniform lead to their interest? Some sort of emulation? Heard about it in school separate from your volunteer work? I'm not asking so much based on the cadets who pulled their parents into CAP, but the inverse.

You see, I never heard of CAP growing up, and man I feel like I would have loved it. I'd love to give my child the opportunity I never had, if she's interested. I'm sure the number of ways cadets got involved is widely varied, and obviously every kid is different, but I'd love to hear any stories out there out of curiosity.

[THRAWN]

Congrats! Mischief Night is the "anniversary" of when we found out we were pregnant.....go ahead, we've heard all the jokes before....Being a father puts everything else into perspective. Best of luck to you and your new family.

My son is about 8 years out from being a cadet, if he chooses to go that route. We live about a mile form the airport where our wing hq is located. There is also an ANG base, a ARNG rotorhead station, and a commercial port there as well. He loves going and checking out the planes, and really likes the pop and color of the CAP planes. He is getting pretty good at picking them out during the daily "airshow" we get as planes fly over our neighborhood.

I know a lot of parent/child combos. In most cases, the cadet convinced the parent to join. They had to drive anyway, might as well do something instead of just sitting there. I have found that the parents tend to stay on long after the cadets move on to other things.

[Ned]

Both my wife and I have remained deeply involved in CAP since we were cadets.

(But since we lived in different parts of the state, we didn't date until we were seniors.    )

So, our kids literally grew up with CAP.  They attended countless meetings and activities just by the virtue of being stuck with us.  As it turns out, one child joined as a cadet and one did not.

(The one that did not later wound up attending a police academy and had to ask her sibling for shoe shining and uniform inspection advice.    )

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

My daughter is about 2 years from being eligible to join. She's known for years that dad sometime went out in uniform at odd hours to help people (ELTs before the great 406 revolution) and has talked about being a cadet for years. She went to 1 encampment graduation in a set of BDUs with an ultramarine HIRONS tape. (No CAP tape, no wing patch)

That said the decision to join will be hers. I'd have the option of her joining either CT or RI Wing (I've been a member of both squadrons in question)  Not sure if it would be better to have her in the wing where I'm IG or not.

[Garibaldi]

I have a different situation but hardly unique. My roommate has two kids, a son and daughter. She, the mom, had asked me about the cadet program, thinking it would be her son that would want to join. To our surprise, he said no, but daughter wants to join. I have been in training for a new job that has kept me away from meetings, and every day it's "when are we going?" Mom is coming with us next week, and I may convince her to join just so she can keep an eye on daughter.  I have a few reservations and I think mom has a few more, but I really believe it will be a good experience for her. I said I would pay for the first year and outlined my expectations in return. She is very excited. Mom and I are not involved other than being best friends, but we both have a vested interest in daughter's future.

[Walkman]

My oldest son had wanted for several years to be in the military, and toyed with the idea of flying as well. We saw a newspaper article on the local cadets winning regional color guard competition and thought he might enjoy the program. My wife dropped him off for the first meeting and I went to pick him after work. I started chatting with the other SMs and said "Hey, if you ever need a hand with anything, I'd be willing to help out". That's when they got out the SM brochure and I was hooked. I had tried to enlist many years before and wasn't able to. Honestly CAP became a dream come true.

That son is 19 now. He was an alternate on the color guard team that went to NCC, had fun doing FTXs in the mountains and enjoyed every o-flight (he hated being in a glider, though). He said he might join back as a SM someday.

He went inactive for a little while, but came back. While he was gone, I stayed in the program. It became more than something I did as a parent while my kid was involved like some activities (scouts, little league, etc). CAP is MY thing.

He has three younger brothers:14, 13, & 9. The 14 y.o. wanted to check it out, decided it wasn't for him. The 13 y.o. is testing this month for his 2nd stripe and loving it. Looking ahead, I'd be surprised if my 9 y.o. doesn't join when he hits 12.

One thing I'll say for being the parent/child combo: my oldest and I have a great relationship because we got to spend so much time together doing fun things in CAP. I was also his scout leader & youth minister for all his teen years, but having the opportunity to hang out and do things we mutually enjoyed so frequently helped us to become more like friends.

[Private Investigator]

None of my children were interested in CAP. The two oldest ones eventually joined the Navy. 

[JC004]

My grandparents were in CAP (I mostly grew up in my grandmother's house from early teen years).  After years of seeing my grandparents' stuff like old uniform items, my grandfather's Medal of Valor, photographs, newspaper articles, CAP records, etc. (and hearing stories) I looked it up at the appropriate age and joined.  Did some of the same stuff they'd done, after hearing about their time.  Grandfather got an award for lifesaving, then 20 years later, I did.  My grandmother rejoined for a bit while I was a cadet.  Some of the people around when I was a cadet knew my grandparents when they were senior members.  They were great to have around and very encouraging to me.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I must say, your rack is quite inspiring.

[JC004]

Me?!

[Майор Хаткевич]

Me?!

Yes Sir!

[JC004]

Me?!

Yes Sir!

Na....I don't have a bunch of high awards or anything.  My ribbons just mean that I signed up for everything I could fit in.  I started doing a ton of ES because my squadron had NOBODY with anything above GES, so I needed to get qualifications to bring back.  I did TTT, CTTT (was the only cadet in the wing with CTTT), and every mission I could to get my missions for quals.  Even went on missions with other units, when mine wasn't sending anyone.  Heck, I've gone on missions during other activities (several times).  Plus, I live in a place that has had a number of major storms and such in my CAP time.  Most of my awards, I can't wear, like Communicator of the Year, Air Force Association Cadet of the Year for Pennsylvania, stuff like that.  I need to make some additions to my ribbon set before I order real ones, but I have to gather paperwork for additions first (records were poorly maintained...had to do stuff like get copies from other units to update what I have so far).

Went to lots of other activities, too, like national conferences (I think that I was a C/SSgt for my first).  Did tons of training - whatever was around.  Helped out with lots of things - even just set up at national conferences and what have you.  Kept me occupied while a lot of other cadets were doing things that got them in trouble (I got roped as being present when some cadets were drinking at a national conference.  I had to go down to the conference ops center and get the national staff who I was assisting at the time to attest to me being with them the whole time).  Inaugural class of Civic Leadership Academy.  Encampments.  Was the only cadet on group staff.  Taught lots of classes.  Became an ROA instructor.  Ran various activities.  Was a founder of the Basic Cadet Orientation Program (BCOP) in the wing.  Lots and lots of stuff.

I keep tweaking this signature block, but I think that I might settle on badges instead if I can get nice-looking badges.  My Photoshop skills are lacking and there aren't a lot of good badge renderings out there.  If anyone has some really nice badge graphics, I'd like to see them. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

When do you put on your third community service ribbon? :0

[JC004]

I only own one in the virtual world (I do have the President's Call to Service Award, which is for 4,000 hours or more).  I haven't bought some of the ribbons.  I try to keep service coat wear down.  Once a year is more than enough.

I was encouraged along in a lot of my activities, thanks to the people who knew my grandparents (and my grandmother herself when she re-joined).  I was always finding new people who knew them.  Once, in the course of one of those usual conversations, it went like so: "How did you get into CAP?"  "My grandparents were members in Group 100."  "I was in Group 100.  Who were your grandparents?"  Told her about them, to which she replied, "He was my commander!  I always wondered if they got married!" 

Folks straight-up told me that they expected more of me because of them, so I always tried to do more (and better).  As I was saying, it actually kept me out of trouble because there were multiple occasions were cadets would be off doing something bad and I'd be quietly working by myself to develop a program or whatever.  Wild parties, and especially the drinking kind and all didn't interest me.  I also strictly avoided in-CAP dating because of all that drama.  I wanted to do stuff like serve group and wing....not get tangled up in high school games.

Having them in my background made me a better cadet, more efficient, and kept me out of trouble (even if I had to prove it a couple times, like with the previously-mentioned conference...lol.  Not sure what happened to those cadets, but I had my fun and really enjoyed spending time with the colonels and generals).  Once, a wing commander from another wing was teaching me piano while the other cadets were getting into trouble, but I enjoyed that and had a fun night. 

[Private Investigator]

Excellent story, thanks for sharing   :clap:

[JC004]

I'd say that "encouragement" in the form of pressure to meet a higher performance standard can be an issue for parent/child pairs in CAP.  That can be a good thing. 

[Walkman]

I haven't dealt with this, but I'm sure the parent/child dynamics radically change when the parent is in a command slot.

[Private Investigator]

I haven't dealt with this, but I'm sure the parent/child dynamics radically change when the parent is in a command slot.

It does just like in little league. The child could be the worst player but the parent is the coach and junior is playing first base.   

[EMT-83]

I've seen it work both ways:

The commander's kid has to work twice as hard as everyone else, so there is no illusion of favoritism.

The commander doesn't even bother to wink and nod when breaking the rules for his kid.

[futura]

My son approached me after we took him to check out the Boy Scouts. I asked him why CAP and he shot back with a long list of friends and family members that we in. Proud to say that he was a third generation Mitchell award recipient. He will be graduating UMASS next semester and the friend that signed up with him Cornell. Agreed that it brought us closer and that the program made a real difference in the lives of both young men.

[Garibaldi]

On another note...my personal situation ran thusly. I was a directionless kid at 12. Mopey, didn't fit in, lacked discipline. Dad thought it was a good idea for me to join, said it would do me good. He was a cadet when he was a teen, and transferred to the cadet unit when I eventually joined. He and I had an agreement; beyond sharing a last name, while in uniform I was not related to him. Period. I was not to go running to him if I felt I was being treated badly and he would not interfere if the cadet staff had complaints about me. And he said if I joined I had better stick it out. That was 1981, and I am still at it.

[SimpleCM]

I don't post often, but this is a topic that's important to me, and I feel passionate about.

I was a Cadet in OH Wing as a teenager during the mid-70s, and enjoyed it tremendously.  As I joined the National Guard, went to college on an ROTC Scholarship, served, etc., CAP faded away.

When my oldest became disenchanted with Scouting at 14, I wanted him to be involved in a youth program that would involve him in the community and offer him good lessons and values for later in life.  I thought of CAP and, I'm sorry to say, thought "gee, I wonder if that's still around?"  Of course, it was - and we were fortunate to live near one of the most robust composite squadrons in NJ Wing.  I rejoined to be a "CAP Dad", and nothing more.  I spent my first three years as the Leadership Officer in the local squadron.

My younger son saw what his older brother was doing, and was very excited about CAP -- on his 11th birthday, he made a "countdown calendar", and joined CAP promptly on his 12th birthday.

In all of the youth activities I was involved in with my kids -- Scouting, CAP, Little League, etc. -- it was always important to me that everyone knew that whatever my kids achieved, it wasn't because of who their dad was, it was despite who he was.  My kids played Right Field, not First Base or Pitcher; they batted at the bottom of the order until their performance proved they deserved a higher spot.  This became particularly true in CAP when (clearly I wasn't looking) I sat on the "fast forward" button, became the Group Commander and, a year later, the Wing Vice.  Running the Basic Encampment for three years during my kids' prime Cadet years made it even more important to ensure that there was not even the slightest whiff of favoritism.

As every parent knows, each of your kids is a completely different creature.  My oldest innately understood the situation and respected it.  My younger one had a bit more sense of self-entitlement, and was sometimes willing to play the "my Dad is the [insert title here]" card.  Fortunately, I had good friends among my fellow SMs, and higher ranking Cadets that I trusted to slap him around a little to disabuse him of his illusions of special status.

Before I finish by telling you how great CAP was for me and BOTH of my kids, as a Parent SM/Child Cadet combo, let me say that the previously mentioned issue of Cadets taking advantage of their parents' status, or Parents paving the way inappropriately for their children to progress in CAP, that is an issue that (I believe) is incumbent on the PARENT to avoid, not the Cadet.  Kids are kids, and no matter how mature CAP experience might make them seem sometimes, they are -- at the heart of it -- teenagers, and sometimes they're going to behave like teenagers.  I've seen my share of CAP Parent SMs with that "my kid plays First Base and leads off" attitude, and I have always worked hard to quash it.  Instead of the lessons that service and experience in CAP are supposed to impart, they are teaching their kids that it's OK to cut corners, to show favoritism and, essentially -- to cheat.  (/RANT OFF, I feel better now!)

My oldest finished the Cadet Program as C/Lt Col, attended three NCSAs and staffed 5 Encampments.  As a Senior Member, he has been a unit ESO and DCC, served as Commandant at an Encampment and attended the LESA Mission Aircrew School.  He is still a member, but not currently active, as he is busy learning to be a Dad himself, with his new 6 month old daughter (and the prettiest little girl on the planet, in Grandpa's opinion).

My youngest is 20, also a C/Lt Col, with three NCSAs and a similar number of Encampments under his belt.  He was the one I mentioned with some "entitlement" issues.  When he was 16, he was selected for PJOC.  Despite the frantic warnings from me (I attended the first PJOC in '77), and two Cadets in the unit who had attended more recently, he did not adequately prepare for the PT, and was sent home on the first day.  That same summer, he staffed an Encampment in another Wing that I didn't participate in, and got slapped around pretty hard for his prima donna attitude.  That was the pivotal turning point for him, and he went on to finish AFSC FC as Academic ACE the next summer, and COS Distinguished Graduate the summer he was 18.

As I finish up my term as commander of that same local squadron we all joined 11 years ago, my commitment to CAP has never been deeper or greater.  I look forward to many more years of service to the organization, our members, and our "customers".  In fact, I hope that CAP will give me the opportunity in the future to have the kind of special relationship with my grandchildren that it created with my own kids.  The variety and number of activities in CAP is unlike any other youth program, and it's special.

I see many of you (former Cadets, longtime members, etc.) on this thread with kids who are potential Cadets in the future.  Let me leave you with just two pieces of advice:

First, avoid the "Little League" parent trap.  Do NOT give even the appearance of special treatment for your Cadet children.

Second, let them pursue their own areas of interest and progress at their own pace.  I always managed to be positive for any direction or area of interest my sons were interested in (and, usually, ended up enjoying it myself, even when I didn't expect to).  Don't fret about how fast they're promoting, what NCSAs they are or are not applying for, etc.  IMHO, the very best way to make it that special, positive bonding experience is to let them enjoy the way THEY want to enjoy it.


Warmest regards and Happy Holidays,


Lt Col Bob Jennings, CAP

[GroundHawg]

I've seen it work both ways:

The commander's kid has to work twice as hard as everyone else, so there is no illusion of favoritism.

The commander doesn't even bother to wink and nod when breaking the rules for his kid.

Sadly, this has been my experience over the years. My last squadron was a particularly flagrant offender. Strange how all the squadron's leadership have children that are also in all the leadership positions for cadets, deserving or not.

[UH60guy]

I think our squadron handled that situation well- On first glance it sounds fishy- the commander's daughter is the cadet commander.

However, the senior commander went about this the right way. He asked all the cadets that were interested in the job for applications, collected them, and blanked out the names on their essays. He called the other senior members over to have a board and to read the essays (names redacted), and recused himself completely from every part of the discussion and decision. Because of publicly acknowledging a potential conflict of interest, and recusing himself completely, he made sure both that cadets and seniors knew this was handled fairly. The icing on the cake is the cadet commander is still sure to call her father "sir" or by rank and name (never Dad or something informal) while "on duty" at the meetings.

[Garibaldi]

I think my experience and a bad experience I had with a mother/daughter terror team colored my view on how much parents should be involved in cadet programs. Mine was perhaps a bit extreme. Our cadet unit was small and my dad was the only parent involved. During that time we both witnessed, in other units, nepotism at its worst, barely capable cadet officers we had never heard of going to encampment for their first time as cadet commander, rapid promotions to Mitchell and Earhart, and the like. My dad wanted to see me succeed or fail on my own merit, and boy did I. He never helped or interfered and I never complained to him if I felt I was being mistreated.
Flash forward to 2000. I became DCC to a small composite squadron. There were several mother-child teams in the unit, one of which filed a complaint against me for several alleged counts of unfair treatment towards her son. Mainly it was for him abusing his authority and challenging me regarding regs nightly and me proving him wrong time and time again. He demanded I produce in writing that he could not wear his blue beret at meetings. Note the timeframe please. He refused to wear his uniform after that and several subsequent memos and letters to his mother resulted in my first cadet programs nightmare in the form of a formal complaint against me. I won, but the woman yanked her son and herself out of the program vowing to sue me for harassing her precious little boy (18 years old) despite massive amounts of written documents describing his actions against other cadets and seniors. The next one I have described previously here, but in a nutshell she tried to wrap the squadron around her finger and produced a 14 year old Spaatz cadet who had neither the maturity or social kills necessary for such a lofty award. When someone finally put their foot down and started reigning the kid in, mother went ballistic and filed a sexual harassment suit against the commander. This was after I left the first time.
My point is, though parents can be a tremendous asset to the program, things can get out of hand when it comes to their kid. I personally want to keep parents as far away from the day to day doings on CP, especially sensitive areas like DCC, testing, and leadership. There's involved and there's involved.

[resq1192]

My situation is a little different.

My Dad was involved w/CAP back in the mid-60s, prior to enlisting w/Army in '68.  He went the Vietnam route and did his country, his parents (and his eldest son) very proud.

Except for a couple of off-hand mentions of CAP and his cadet involvement WIWAK in the 80s (his squadron used to meet at North Central Airport in Smithfield RI), he never really mentioned much about it, much like he minimally spoke of his Army service.

I joined while in college as a 20-yr-old SM to continue my streak of community service AND emergency services work and have done 2 "tours."  Even brough my (now) wife into CAP during my "second tour."  Thinking about rejoining (hello RI Wing) and maybe bringing the wife along again.

Who knows, maybe I'll be in when my nephews are old enough to join .... THAT would be interesting ...