Question for Group Personnel Officers

[West MI-CAP-Ret]

I'm almost finished with my Group SUI portion of the continuity folder.  At least in the Michigan Wing, (my understanding) groups have never participated in a SUI before and now we do.


It would be "supreme-o" if I could get another Group Personnel Officer out there in the deep netherworlds of Chairborne Rangers, to send me a copy of what a finished product looks like.


For regular squadron personnel officers, if you could send me a copy of your last SUI product, that would be great too.


Question Two:  As I read the P-200 Personnel Specialty Career track study guide, all I need to do is have demonstrate to another Personnel Officer, that I have a working knowledge of all the required regulations that the study guide lists and be in the careerfield for six months?  Does the personnel officer need to have a masters in the career field?


Thanks, Dave from West Michigan

[Eclipse]

An SUI is a series of questions to ascertain the current state of the unit's operations with an eye towards insuring it
is meeting at least the minimum expectations.  Answer them, substantiate only if asked, move on.  An SUI is >not< a "final exam" and there is no "finished product".
Some wings prefer that those being inspected prepare a binder to expedite the process of substantiation, but this is by no means mandated by the regulations

If a unit has a charter, it's supposed to be inspected, there hasn't been any relief because it's a group.  With that said, since a Group is a HQ component, and
not an operation echelon, many, if not most of the tabs are "N/A".

A Group's SUI is only about the Group's operations, not, as I've seen asserted, about the downstream administration of its units. If no cadets are assigned to
the Group's charter, that tab is N/A, etc., etc.

Considering most groups only have a handful of members, the administrative and personnel-related tabs should be quick and simple.

all I need to do is have demonstrate to another Personnel Officer, that I have a working knowledge of all the required regulations that the study guide lists and be in the careerfield for six months?  Does the personnel officer need to have a masters in the career field?

Your commander is the subjective approver of the specialty.  You do not need to be evaluated by another Personnel Officer, nor does your CC need to hold a rating in Personnel.
Considering that CAPP 200 is obsoleted in nearly its entirety, make sure you understand how things are done today, not 16 years ago.

[Private Investigator]

I'm almost finished with my Group SUI portion of the continuity folder.  At least in the Michigan Wing, (my understanding) groups have never participated in a SUI before and now we do.

So is Groups something new in MIWG? Because in other Wings that have Groups we get inspected every two years.

I have a Masters rating in Personnel. The downside as a Group DP is you never do membership applications anymore like when or if you were a Squadron DP. Also have you been in touch with Wing DP? He should know how the Group DP is doing.

[Private Investigator]

A Group's SUI is only about the Group's operations, not, as I've seen asserted, about the downstream administration of its units. If no cadets are assigned to
the Group's charter, that tab is N/A, etc., etc.

So you are saying the Group Cadet Programs Officer does not have to do anything? i.e., A Squadron Cadet Program Officer needs guidance he just calls directly to Wing?

[FlyTiger77]

A Group's SUI is only about the Group's operations, not, as I've seen asserted, about the downstream administration of its units. If no cadets are assigned to
the Group's charter, that tab is N/A, etc., etc.

So you are saying the Group Cadet Programs Officer does not have to do anything? i.e., A Squadron Cadet Program Officer needs guidance he just calls directly to Wing?

I think what you are asking and what Eclipse is saying are two entirely different things. I think his position is that unless the Group has cadets assigned to the Group HQ, then the Group does not have any inspectable items on the SUI. This does not take away the Group Commander's responsibility to provide oversight, guidance, direction, etc (typically through his/her Group Cadet Programs officer) to the squadrons in the execution of their respective cadet programs.

It's late and I hope I haven't muddied the waters further.

[Eclipse]

^ That's pretty much what I am saying.  A group is a headquarters component, not an operational unit, despite CAP reality  By design, they don't actually "do", they administrate.  Their function is to coordinate resources for the units, reduce duplication of effort, set standards, and act as a filter and floodgate
between wing and the units. 

I've argued for years that Groups should get a derivative of a CI, not an SUI.

Looking over the Personnel tab, that should take you about 20 minutes to complete, even for a unit-level Personnel Officer.  Most of the questions
will be yes by design, and a couple are not applicable to a Group (Such as processing new members, etc).

Every time I read the SUI guide, no matter how many times I've been through it, I find mistakes or inappropriate questions.

[Private Investigator]

Every time I read the SUI guide, no matter how many times I've been through it, I find mistakes or inappropriate questions.

I agree.

We should go back to the SUIs we had before 2001. Where each section had a rated score, i.e. I got 97% on Safety. The Admin guy needs help, he got only a 72.

[Private Investigator]

... I think his position is that unless the Group has cadets assigned to the Group HQ, then the Group does not have any inspectable items on the SUI. This does not take away the Group Commander's responsibility to provide oversight, guidance, direction, etc (typically through his/her Group Cadet Programs officer) to the squadrons in the execution of their respective cadet programs.

When I was a Group Commander I never had Cadets per se, but I had a PA done appointing Cadets to the Group CAC. I can not think of any other reason why Cadets would be assigned to Group.