Question: CAP Officer/NCO accession during the '60s and prior

[Treadhead]

Forgive me if this has already been adressed/answered.

I know that once there was a dual 'track' for lack of better terms of sm NCO and officer members.  The enlisted grades went all the way from airman to master sgt iirc.  There wasn't the requirement for NCO members to have been prior service.

What were the requirements for officer appointments back then?  Were there two different tracks?  By this I mean phases for officer and enlisted?   I've always been curious about this.  It was so far back in long-ago years that a lot of us were toddlers--with no CAP experience.

Thanks!

[flyboy53]

I remember the enlisted side better than the officer side because I was one back then. There were also at least two grades of warrant officers.

It seemed to me that it was easier to be an enlisted or warrant officer because the promotions didn't have the same requirements. Where as appointment as an officer and promotion were tied pretty strictly to completion of the ECI course. Rank seemed really tough to achieve in the field and you saw warrant officers as squadron commanders. If I remember correctly, you could progress through the enlisted side without completing things like Level I.

A lot of the training then was with programmed learning guides that you ordered from the CAP Bookstore and completed on your own.

I had been a former cadet who transitioned to the enlisted side back in 1971 and got as far as technical sergeant -- mostly through merit and time in grade -- when the NCO program ended. I completed Level I twice, but the second time it was more formally accomplished with course and slide show. Much of the professional development program that now exists was formally implemented. Back then there was a NHQ monitoring program that tracked it and I think units were given quality points annually cadet and senior member progression, training and activities.

One other thing, although it wasn't in the regs, the Pennsylvania Wing had at least one senior master sergeant.. Her name was Russell and she was an administrative type assigned to what was then Group 50.

When the NCO program ended, I was assigned to the Indiana Wing and was appointed a warrant officer for all of about six months. Back then you could get a direct appointment if you had an FCC Radio Telephone License. I had a third class with Element 9 endorsement and was directly appointed a second lieutenant for misson-related skills. The rest is history.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

If CAP would go back to that I would embrace it wholeheartedly.

I never got to be part of it but it just seemed more logical than having everyone be an officer.  It would seem more logical that one would have to have prior officer service to be an officer, rather than the way it is now.

When I joined CAP, my Army vet dad said "sounds like you've got more Chiefs than you do Indians."

[LGM30GMCC]

In a lot of ways our structure is based on an Operations Group and NAF of the Cold War era. Squadrons with lots and lots of officers (pilots for example) and a few enlisted doing some support jobs. Though also there used to be various officers tucked away for safe keeping who also did this and that. Heck, in a modern missile squadron you have a similar HUGE number of officers compared to the very small amount of enlisted (Chefs and FMs). Other than the lead Chef and FM, we have 1 civilian that handles a lot of ancillary stuff but much of the administrative support is done by officers.

I don't know about the flying world, but for missiles I know the OG has a first sergeant, and that first sergeant is also the first sergeant for all 4 squadrons assigned to the OG. As a whole the OG is probably about 80% officer. If you took the Chefs and Facility Managers and chopped them all over to the services squadron (which could make sense on some level) that number would probably climb to 90-95% officer.

From that perspective...our 100% officer really isn't that much more far fetched.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^^Of course, since one has to be a commissioned officer in all the U.S. services to be a pilot, with the exception of Army Aviator Warrants and Navy Flying CWO's.

With missileers I imagine it's that way because the government figures that only commissioned officers can be trusted with orders for nuclear release.

My dad said that when he was in the Army the only officers he regularly encountered were his Company Commander (Captain), XO (First Lieutenant), and Motor Pool (CWO).

I do think if we went back to the former structure there'd be less stories of CAP officers trolling for a salute, simply because there would be less CAP officers!

I'd gladly trade in my rank of Senior Captain in Perpetuity for CWO-3.

[Treadhead]

Does anyone know why CAP did away with the enlisted/NCO program as it was back then?

[flyboy53]

Does anyone know why CAP did away with the enlisted/NCO program as it was back then?

Yeah, I told that story before. Because CAP NCO rank was easier to achieve than officers, it was abused. People would literally walk off the street and be an instant master seargeant -- supervising cadets and junior CAP enlisted types with absolutely no experience at all.

The practice drew the ire of groups like the Air Force Sergeant's Association and the Air Staff. and the rest is history.

Whether or not we need NCOs now -- I would support it and there are some prior service types currently in the program -- there would have to be a formal training process to make it work.