Do you think that our CAPIDs should look more military like? If Yes! No. or Both why? 8)
~ Thanks
Maybe something like this but w/o the chip.
http://www.dodlive.mil/files/2011/05/army.mil-104075-2011-04-04-090414-300x200.jpg (http://www.dodlive.mil/files/2011/05/army.mil-104075-2011-04-04-090414-300x200.jpg)
Or like this (phase 1)
http://usarmy.vo.llnwd.net/e2/-images/2011/04/04/104077/army.mil-104077-2011-04-04-090415.jpg (http://usarmy.vo.llnwd.net/e2/-images/2011/04/04/104077/army.mil-104077-2011-04-04-090415.jpg)
Why? What would it get you?
More professional and less like a library card? Yes, and that's about it
What are the real benefits?
Our current ID has the member's picture, name, and CAPID, and the organization's name and some other verbiage. What else do CAP members need?
Everything you posted pictures of is either more costly, or inappropriate for CAP use.
It looks like a solution searching for a problem.
Not this again!!
The current format looks as good as any issued over the past 50 yrs. The possible exception might be the old CAPF 19 but those were usually issued by a Wing/Group HQ and had in bold print on the bottom "NOT VALID WITHOUT CURRENT MEMBERSHIP CARD".
As for a CAC appearing card that bridge was crossed several yrs ago. Not gonna happen anytime soon.
My apologies for starting this thread. 8)
The military CAC cards referenced in your first post are forbidden by AF regulations, so that aint happening.
Quote from: bflynn on April 23, 2012, 11:40:41 PM
Why? What would it get you?
Disneyland admission :o
(http://modernvespa.com/pix/uploads/beatdeadhorse_332.gif)
AF disapproved of an ID with looked theirs. Case Closed!! Would like to see the back of the card redesigned better.
From AFI10-2701 29 JULY 2005:
1.3.5. CAP ID Card. CAP members carry an ID card identifying them as members of the organization.
CAP ID cards must meet Air Force standards and are considered a uniform item subject to the
same approval process as other parts of the CAP uniform. The CAP ID card must be sufficiently different from U.S. Armed Forces ID card that confusion will not occur. The CAP ID card will not allow access to government facilities or other agencies and is not a government identification card. CAP ID cards do not qualify for Federal Aviation Administration identification requirements concerning pilot certificate privileges. Each installation commander is responsible for determining the amount of access, if any, which will be afforded to CAP personnel. However, the ID card will facilitate the identification of an individual as a member of the CAP.
I've been a member for 15 years. It's been at least 12 since I was asked to present my CAPID for any reason. I'm not sure what the obsession is with having an ID card that looks "more military" considering they cost a bunch more and barely, if ever, come out of our pockets. Other than the couple of units that use them to get onto their respective base where they meet, in reality, they are just a "feel good" item that barely serves a purpose externally and no purpose internally.
As a member that meets on base.....we have never had any trouble getting on base with our CAPID....even the old blue no picture cards.
Those bases that are giving CAP a hard time....it is simply a matter for the SD/CAP-RAP to get with that base and figure out what the problem is.
As for a more military look? It is a Jimmydeanno said....just a feel good for our members that does not help CAP in anyway that I can think of.
Quote from: CAP_truth on April 24, 2012, 07:55:05 PM
AF disapproved of an ID with looked theirs. Case Closed!! Would like to see the back of the card redesigned better.
Amen to that.
Quote from: jimmydeanno on April 24, 2012, 11:25:24 PM
I've been a member for 15 years. It's been at least 12 since I was asked to present my CAPID for any reason.
Getting a bit off topic for me but in my Wing at Sarex's and other training activities, at sign in we show our CAPID, 101 card, CAPF60s etc. As knowledge base has indicated it is not required in most cases, though commanders can make it a requirement to have a CAPID on your possession.
Quote from: spacecommand on April 26, 2012, 12:25:01 AM
Quote from: jimmydeanno on April 24, 2012, 11:25:24 PM
I've been a member for 15 years. It's been at least 12 since I was asked to present my CAPID for any reason.
Getting a bit off topic for me but in my Wing at Sarex's and other training activities, at sign in we show our CAPID, 101 card, CAPF60s etc. As knowledge base has indicated it is not required in most cases, though commanders can make it a requirement to have a CAPID on your possession.
For us, usually, if you know your CAPID number, you're good. Enter that in and IMU will tell you everything that checking a CAPID and 101 would.
If a SAREX or mission leads me onto airport or other restricted-type property, I sure want that CAP ID handy to show them I'm not a lunatic in camo.
Most of those places don't know what a CAPID is supposed to look like anyway. I've done plenty of missions that led to airports, military installations, and other "restricted areas" and the only thing they've ever checked has been my government provided ID. The uniform, van, Elper, etc are pretty telling.
I can't imagine that our ID card is going to be the item that restricts someone from being able to do a flightline search.
The intial photo ID card ent from ok to now crap.............quality is lacking. I will say that being involved in incidents with other agencies that we are not the only game out there with mickey mouse looking cards. On a postive note: It's better than the old blue and white card that was typed up.(90's era)
Also, if we had a card that looked very similar to the DOD CAC...........I am sure that people would misrepersent themselves and get into trouble. There was a rag tag group(militia type) that was using a id card very similar to the DOD CAC and was gaing access to a DOD installation. Talk about wanabees........I wont mention the groups name becaus eI dont want to start and fires that have already been put out.
Why? The ID is fine as it is. ???
Design change? Not necessary. Quality? Eh... could be better. The gate guard at my squadron's meeting location did make a point that it looks like something that could have been printed in his grandmas basement. There are far bigger issues to be concerned with though.
Less quality is correct, I just got my new CAP Id a few days ago and it is a lot thinner than last one. :'(
The old cards were much better. My AAA card now is of better quatity than my CAPID card and that is a pretty sad thing especially when they both cost about the same annually to belong to.
I am embarassed to hand mine over to the gate guards, not because of the picture on it or anything except for the CHEEZINESS of the material it is printed on :o
I guess with the budget problems, maybe with thinner id's, we can get a few more hours with planes in the air...maybe.....
Do the new thinner cards do their job? Yes, they show that you are or were a member of the Civil Air Patrol.
End of discussion...
Quote from: PHall on May 06, 2012, 12:51:39 AM
Do the new thinner cards do their job? Yes, they show that you are or were a member of the Civil Air Patrol.
End of discussion...
Just to get the job done is exactly that. Getting the job done. Usually it is used to refer meeting the bare minimum. There is no extra effort to make it a decent job. I can iron my blues but not make the creases really appear. I can clean my brass but not make it shine. I can take a shower but not clean my hair properly. We shouldn't accept lackluster, especially considering how we are not a lackluster organization (sometimes contrary to CT belief).
Quote from: PHall on May 06, 2012, 12:51:39 AM
Do the new thinner cards do their job? Yes, they show that you are or were a member of the Civil Air Patrol.
End of discussion...
Depends which job you are referring to.
I will grant you that they identify us as members of the Civil Air Patrol, yes they do that.
The ID card also is an introduction at times to those who are unfamiliar with Civil Air Patrol as a bonafide organization. Say we present it to an airport official while searching for an ELT or we hand it to the gate guard at the base. Those people may never have seen anything other than the words Civil Air Patrol on a memo or access roster and their first impression of the organization is the person in uniform and the CHEESY piece of plastic issued as an ID card to our membership; it does not make me think of a quality organization. That is MY opinion, and I must say that I aree with what Littleguy stated in a previous posting as well.
BTW(PHALL)-
I dont care for your "End of discussion....." attitude much and where to you get off telling me or anyone else when a discussion is over? I always though that was why there were moderators on here..... >:D
There are a few different things that higher can do for us to make us a more professional appearance. A better ID for one, and it wouldn't be hard. Just get some better cards, and a better image for them, a bit higher quality ink and printer isn't hard either unless what they are doing is taking the flimsy plastic so they can feed a sheet through a standard desk printer and print eight people's cards at the same time. And that is exactly what they look like. And I can get better quality business cards from kinkos for CAP that I would be more proud of using than my ID.
As a business owner and long time CAP volunteer and supporter, I have to say that CAP does need a more public, professional, and yes, military, image. So now the question is why. Before all your flamers and trolls and "wanna-be" callers start yelling, let me explain.
1) CAP is the ** OFFICIAL** Auxiliary of the United States Air Force, this does NOT mean we are military, however we are to respect the regulations of the United States Air Force, we wear the Air Force uniform, and perform non-combat missions on behalf of the United States Air Force. What we do, what we say, how we act - all reflects on our brothers and sisters in the Air Force. To this respect, we wear the Air Force uniform with pride, we keep to the regulations on how to wear that uniform, and most of our squadrons exist on US Air Force bases.
2) We provide federally mandated mission support and command on things like Disaster Relief, Search and Rescue, as well as Aerospace Education, a great cadet program, etc. In this fashion we should be more professional, and frankly, that begins and ends with image. It is the IMAGE that makes or breaks a brand. CAP is just that - a BRAND. Fact is, our public relations utterly sucks. We are a major organization, with over 60,000 members - yet the majority of the public knows NOTHING about the Civil Air Patrol. It wouldn't take much to change this. And we should in fact focus on doing just that - changing it. The more the public knows, the better our image, the more recruits we get, and funding gets much easier.. in the case of CAP, membership = funds, funds = better support, mission abilities, and flight time.
So in this essence, yes a more professional ID would go a long way. When your going house to house interviewing possible witnesses and gathering intel, handing someone this thin, crappy, and very unprofessional not to mention, something that screams "AM I FAKE?" should be changed. Should it be military - yes and no. I am a supporter of CAP getting a CAC ID, we are in fact the Auxiliary of the United States Air Force, and we are a "federal" level organization. What would a CAC do? Well, one that is clearly AUXILIARY would help the DOD track us, our numbers, our support abilities, where we are stationed, and over all access control. We perform missions for and act on behalf on the USAF, yet on look at our ID makes even the Security Force officers at the gate go.. "umm.. about that".
So even though a CAC would be nice, lets get real - not going to happen till CAP and the USAF work more hand in hand. This day -IS- coming and I know a certain person in active duty who works with CAP every day who knows that they are evaluating a more fruitful relationship. But till the Air Force decides we are CAC worthy, we still need a better ID. Clean, professional, easy to read and understand. One that shows we are legit. This would go along way in our image. Fact is, no one wants to put our current ID around our necks.. we're ashamed of them! We can get a better ID made at home! How sad is that? Hell, if I really wanted, I could design one online and order it with better results and have it be cost effective. So why is CAP giving us such crap cards?
I say redesign it all, top to bottom. And the rest of the PR stuff would go way to far off topic, so I may just start a thread for that. :P
2LT Brann, Gerald, CAP
SWR-TX-424
CAP could do a much better job with our branding, and presenting ourselves professionally. Our ID card is not a major factor in that. In fact I think it's adequate as-is.
The only thing I would change is to copy a feature from my early 1980's U.S. Naval Sea Cadet Corps ID card. That card included a statement explaining our limited Navy Exchange privileges and where the exchange staff could find supporting information in their manuals. That was handy, so this teenaged goober didn't have to negotiate with exchange personnel when trying to buy uniforms or other minor items on our "drill weekends."
No one outside CAP has ever asked to see my CAP ID card. In my CAP duties I have repeatedly visited military bases, attended multi-agency training classes, participated in planning meetings with public safety agencies, and have worked at real deal disasters. None of those people cared about my CAP ID card. Some of them got one of my CAP business cards. Of course I showed my CAP ID and 101 card at CAP check-in, but those were CAP people. Competency, professional demeanor, and correct uniform wear are more important than a snazzy ID card.
Incidentally, our CAP ID looks a lot nicer than the DBIDS card I use to enter a local Air Force base.
I would like to see us standardize our business cards. More people see those, and they can leave a longer lasting impression than a rare, fleeting, flash of our ID card.
Getting the photo ID card was a step in the right direction. Waaay back when all I needed to access the local AFB was my CAP ID (along with DL upon request), both Security Forces and the contract Security folks loved the card. They said it looked a lot more professional (compared to the blue non-photo cards).
DBIDS came along and I no longer show my CAP ID at the gate, which is a good thing now that I have my new CAP ID. While it looks a bit nicer than my last card, the move from plastic to stiff, laminated paper is, quite honestly, a slap in the face. It's as if I printed it out at home and took it to Kinkos. ::)
Quote from: wuzafuzz on May 24, 2012, 12:55:06 AMIncidentally, our CAP ID looks a lot nicer than the DBIDS card I use to enter a local Air Force base.
I feel the opposite. Simple, neat, professional, and distinctive from military IDs.
OTOH, they *know* what the DBIDS is at least. Our stiffened paper card ... I've been asked jokingly, but.. "do you all have to make these yourself, too?" by SF at the gate on entry, a couple times now...
I'm good with the design. I remember the little flimsy blue/white ones from the '90s...I was almost ashamed to show those at the gate of a base. These are worlds better.
However, it could be made of "sterner stuff," more like an ATM or credit card.
What the USCG Auxiliary has would be a good model for us...and for "wannabe watchers," theirs says "NON-MILITARY ID."
Quote from: Phillip on May 24, 2012, 02:48:56 PM
Quote from: wuzafuzz on May 24, 2012, 12:55:06 AMIncidentally, our CAP ID looks a lot nicer than the DBIDS card I use to enter a local Air Force base.
I feel the opposite. Simple, neat, professional, and distinctive from military IDs.
For what its worth, DBIDS cards don't look the same at all bases. I know they are dramatically different at two bases near me. One looks similar to a CAC, the other looks like an Excel table gone mad. I have the latter.
Quote from: wuzafuzz on May 24, 2012, 07:07:51 PM
Quote from: Phillip on May 24, 2012, 02:48:56 PM
Quote from: wuzafuzz on May 24, 2012, 12:55:06 AMIncidentally, our CAP ID looks a lot nicer than the DBIDS card I use to enter a local Air Force base.
I feel the opposite. Simple, neat, professional, and distinctive from military IDs.
For what its worth, DBIDS cards don't look the same at all bases. I know they are dramatically different at two bases near me. One looks similar to a CAC, the other looks like an Excel table gone mad. I have the latter.
I just got my new formerly-psycho Excel card. It now looks the same as the other one that looks like a CAC.