No promotion after 18 months as a senior?

[JoeTomasone]

I don't care how good of a PDO and PO you have; if anyone ever came up to me and said, "Hey, did you know that you only need _____ to get promoted" or "I noticed you are eligible for another clasp on your Red Service Ribbon -- want me to put you in for it?" I might fall over dead.

And that's a shame. Not to hijack the thread, but is that common? I know that I'm always checking records for such items. I've got an assistant PO and PDO in training, so now it's their job.

It's actually pretty cool to inform a member that they're eligible for an award or promotion that they had lost track of.

I salute you, sir.   Not to take anything away from any PDO or PO out there, because I think that combing through personnel files and remembering the requirements for everything is a pretty onerous job, but that is an effort far and above what I have experienced.   But then, as I said, I haven't expected it, so I haven't missed it.    I've had a PDO mention to the entire staff that we should review our files to ensure that everything is there, and request that we do *something* each month to move some football forward, but that's pretty much it.   But like I said, it's not something I expect, I look to a PDO as more of someone who is a subject matter expert for questions and a staff officer to process the paperwork - anything above that is icing on the cake.

Maybe my expectations are too low?  Beats me.

[simon]

G1000. On its merits in CAP today, that is a can of worms.

I know I am inviting trouble here, but since I started the thread and you asked, I'll give you my 2c. I have flown the G1000 a couple of times. It is state of the art. IN MY VIEW, a pilot competent in a steam gauge 182 could safely fly the G1000 182 with 1 hour of ground, 1 hour of preflight and on the ground training with the standby system on / sitting stationary with the engine running going through systems, plus 2 flights that covered everything in a basic VFR checkride.

There are some gotchas however, and I have noticed those. For example, compare two, opposite direction 180 degree steep turns (50+ degrees) in a G1000 to a steam gauge plane. If you really do keep looking outside the plane, one's internal gyros are pretty good at telling you "you're diving" or "climbing". In a steam gauge plane, a momentary glance tells you the needles have moved. It's not impossible, with practice, to maintain ATP standards (+/i 20 feet, although they don't make you do steep turns for that). With the G1000, more difficult. The ticker tape does not give you any visual glance indication that you have lost altitude. You have to process information first and react. Doable, just a little harder.

Where the HUGE difference is, is in IFR. Not even in the same ballpark. I can hop between a bunch of different aircraft with steam gauges (Sorry to overuse the incorrect term) and everything is the same except aircraft performance and location of gauges. With the G1000, IFR, it is a total game changer. I did not appreciate it at first until I flew it. VFR, who cares. It is a 182. No different than the 182 50 years ago. In the clouds? Not the same.

Basically, IFR, the pilot is a systems manager. Like an airline pilot (95% of the time). The PROBLEM is that you are not an airline pilot. Because you are not in the flight levels. Where you aren't going to hit anything. CAP training says hit the autopilot at 700' AGL and fly it like an airliner. Fine in IMC or as an airliner climbing at 2500fpm getting away from the local traffic. But non-IMC, a G1000 equipped 182 requires discipline to fly it like a plane with no instruments at all. I.e., look out the window.

To be sure, glass cockpits are the way of the future, but as someone who learnt in a Citabria, primary pilots in these things run the risk of missing out on some basic aviation skills. Unless you are moving up to aircraft like turboprops or jets, little planes will fail at some point. And when the cockpit goes dark on a cross country trip (as it has for me), you'd better have a backup.

I am in the software business. I know the disconnect between software engineers and mission critical systems. And ther is a BIG difference between a G1000 182 and an Airbus. Not so much in the software - but VERY much in the required level of systems understanding.

[AirAux]

Somebody is playing games with your promotion.  Come join my squadron, you can do orientation flights and I will promote you in a minute..  With your background, I would have gotten you into the aerospace track immediately and gotten you promoted..  Some people are so full of themselves..  Let's not remember that we were all new once and help somebody get ahead, not run them off..

[simon]

Thanks for the offer AirAux but I do actually like the people in my squadron and the commander is a good guy.

I am just going to continue on track with developing my CAP flying credentials, maybe even work on the G1000. A member of the squadron who is a ATP and check pilot has generously offered his time to check me out for the night and instrument capabilities and train me in the mountain and high altitude areas (He runs that course). This is the kind of stuff that I enjoy - learning to aviate safely in steep, rugged, high terrain. I am fortunate to get his time for this.

As for the awards stuff - that can wait. It would not have made an ounce of difference to those two guys CAP found inverted, dinged up, but alive in the Joshua Tree park last week. To me there is more value in a well qualified aircrew member with no rank than a Major who pushes paper. And I do know we have one or two of the latter.

Here's what sometimes (the British equivalent) of CAP seems like :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuple20I2vs

[Camas]

To me there is more value in a well qualified aircrew member with no rank than a Major who pushes paper.

See PM

[simon]

Fair enough, I withdraw that last comment.  No offence intended to those in admin. I suppose it is a necessary evil.

[flyguy06]

From reading Simon's posts,it seems he is CAP just to fly. T he regs say that if you are a Instrument rated privatepilot, you are "eligible" for 1st Lt. Doesn't mean its automatic. You cant join CAP and just fly. You should also do a functional specialty track as well and not just something like Flight Ops. You can do admin, personnel, safety, or finance or somethinglike that. But I think pilots should contribute to the squadron as well. I am a CFI with 1100 hours. But my specialty track is cadet programs.

[DG]

You cant join CAP and just fly.

Where is it written?

[simon]

flyguy06, I do wish to clarify what I want to do at CAP and that is to "fly missions". I did not join "just to fly". I make the distinction because it can be a justifiably sensitive issue. This was pointed out to me from day 1 by my commander and PTO before they accepted my application for membership. Using CAP just to go flying on the cheap and not really participating in Squadron duties was apparently an issue with a couple of members some years back - before my time.

If I want to fly for pleasure, I go rent a plane. I joined CAP to participate principally in SAR. Personally I am looking forward to honing my skills on missions. I like the crew environment. Having a pilot rated passenger is always great as backup, to point out things that can improve your flying etc.

As for the discussion on rank, I probably should not have raised the question. It was mainly out of curiosity. As I said previously, it really isn't a big issue for me, since once in the air, everyone just becomes part of a working crew. I could be buried rankless and not be fussed about it. At the same time, I am not knocking those who have achieved their well deserved awards. To each their own.

[Thrashed]

I really don't care why people join CAP as long as they do and stay active.  If they want to only fly cadets on O-flights, that's fine.  It's a "mission" of the CAP (aerospace & cadets).  If they only want to do SAR in the air or on the ground, then fine.  There's enough for everyone to do. I don't know of anyone who joins for cheap flight time.  It's not cheap; I can rent a plane at the FBO for less.  You can't take your family or friends (unless they are in CAP).  It's a pain in the you know what.  It's nice just to jump in a plane and go without all the fuss of computers, FRO's, etc.

[simon]

Couldn't agree with you more, Thrash. When I want to have fun, I go rent a Cessna 170 and find a soft field. When I want to head to the mountains with friends and skiis, I take a Bonanza. When I want to go a long way, it's a Turbo Mooney.

[flyguy06]

flyguy06, I do wish to clarify what I want to do at CAP and that is to "fly missions". I did not join "just to fly". I make the distinction because it can be a justifiably sensitive issue. This was pointed out to me from day 1 by my commander and PTO before they accepted my application for membership. Using CAP just to go flying on the cheap and not really participating in Squadron duties was apparently an issue with a couple of members some years back - before my time.

If I want to fly for pleasure, I go rent a plane. I joined CAP to participate principally in SAR. Personally I am looking forward to honing my skills on missions. I like the crew environment. Having a pilot rated passenger is always great as backup, to point out things that can improve your flying etc.

As for the discussion on rank, I probably should not have raised the question. It was mainly out of curiosity. As I said previously, it really isn't a big issue for me, since once in the air, everyone just becomes part of a working crew. I could be buried rankless and not be fussed about it. At the same time, I am not knocking those who have achieved their well deserved awards. To each their own.

Thanks for the clarification Simon. It sounded like you joined to to get cheap flying. Nothing at all with wanting to fly "missions" but i do disagree with you about what you say about rank. You should want to progress. You should not want to come in become a Capt and stay there forever. Progressionin the program shows commitment to the program., if you just come inand fly missions you are doing a good deed but professional development is important. Dont just focus on one aspect of CAP (in your case, ES) go to an SLS, and CLC to futher your knowledge of the organizxation you joined. If you just focus on ES. you will be an ES guru for sure, but will that prepre you to be a Deputy Squadron Commander, or a Squadron COmmander, or a OPS officer. You should know the complete "CAP" program, not just one aspect of it. Go to Wing Conferences get to know other (non ES folks) inthe wing, they could be a good resource to you in the future.

[simon]

It is just time.

[Gunner C]

I don't care how good of a PDO and PO you have; if anyone ever came up to me and said, "Hey, did you know that you only need _____ to get promoted" or "I noticed you are eligible for another clasp on your Red Service Ribbon -- want me to put you in for it?" I might fall over dead.

And that's a shame. Not to hijack the thread, but is that common? I know that I'm always checking records for such items. I've got an assistant PO and PDO in training, so now it's their job.

It's actually pretty cool to inform a member that they're eligible for an award or promotion that they had lost track of.

Being an old personnel officer, here's what I'd suggest for any unit:  Make a list of everyone's membership anniversary date.  Task your personnel officer to interview each member during that month.  Go over their file to ensure there are no missing courses, certificates, etc.  See if there's a promotion opportunity coming up or over due.  If they're over due and qualified, initiate paperwork for the commander's review.  If it's coming up, find out when and if they're not yet qualified slip a note to the PDO on what they're missing.

Honestly, it's not rocket science.  You'll only have a couple of members a month.  You can make an appointment with them in advance so they can have copies of anything when they show up.  You'll be surprised how happy everyone will be with a little work and communication.

[Spike]

I don't understand this thread.  Last time I looked it is the members responsibility to track his or her own pro development, achievements and promotions.  Reading the CAP Senior Member material should give a member enough knowledge to know how the system works, and if the Squadron Commander does not accept your request for promotion (other than for cause) take it to a higher level.

We are all big boys and girls here.  I hope we are all smart enough to know how the system works.  If not, perhaps CAP is not right for you.

[EMT-83]

I don't understand this thread.  Last time I looked it is the members responsibility to track his or her own pro development, achievements and promotions.

Cite, please. Sorry, could help it. 

Actually, the last time I looked, this is the responsibility of the personnel and professional development officers.

Yes, everyone should have a basic understanding of how things work. However, if your staff officers aren't doing their job, just what are they doing?

[Cecil DP]

I don't understand this thread.  Last time I looked it is the members responsibility to track his or her own pro development, achievements and promotions.  Reading the CAP Senior Member material should give a member enough knowledge to know how the system works, and if the Squadron Commander does not accept your request for promotion (other than for cause) take it to a higher level.

We are all big boys and girls here.  I hope we are all smart enough to know how the system works.  If not, perhaps CAP is not right for you.

The fact is that  the job description of the Personnel Officer to check the records and initiate whatever paperwork is required. You don't have to stay at the Holiday Inn express to download the MML, STR, and other reports to determine who's eligible for a promotion, Red Service Ribbon, or even who is due to renew. I check these records  weekly for a squadron of 33 members and used to do the same for a Wing of a thousand people when the reports only came out monthly and promotions were on paper. BTW Every promotion and personnel action was acted on, signed by the Wing/CC and mailed that same night.

[Spike]

The promotion form requires the signature of the "requester": read Member.  Then the Squadron Commander signs and up the chain it goes.  It is a members responsibility to be versed in the program and present request for promotions when the time comes.  Simple!

[Eclipse]

I don't understand this thread.  Last time I looked it is the members responsibility to track his or her own pro development, achievements and promotions.

I agree, however it is also the Commander and staff who are required to be moving people along and aware of their progress and respective eligibility. 

Few units are so large as to have an effective program, yet still have the CC and staff so disconnected from their members that they don't know who is eligible for what. 

The promotion form requires the signature of the "requester": read Member.  Then the Squadron Commander signs and up the chain it goes.  It is a members responsibility to be versed in the program and present request for promotions when the time comes.  Simple!

The requester need not be the member, and as mentioned earlier, some commanders feel this is inappropriate.

[SarDragon]

The promotion form requires the signature of the "requester": read Member.  Then the Squadron Commander signs and up the chain it goes.  It is a members responsibility to be versed in the program and present request for promotions when the time comes.  Simple!

Nope.

I'm looking at both versions of the current form, and neither of them say Member in the Requested By line.

The Word version even comes with "CC" pre-entered in the Requested By block.

The first signature block is labeled SIGNATURE OF FLIGHT OR SQDN CMDR on both.