AFIADL 213D

[CommGeek]

Does anyony  know if the ES Officer course (213D) has been updated?  Last time I took it it refrenced 50-16 as the ES reg.


Thanks

[Eclipse]

No, it has not.

You may wish to check up your chain, some wings are waiving it as it no longer is close to appropriate.  This waiver was per John Desmaris.

[CommGeek]

So per the pamplet do you still have to take an obsolete course to get your tech rating?

When I took it they were in the transition from 50-15 to the 60 series, so I was familiar with both.

A new member in the squadron is looking to get tech for ES...any advise?

[Eclipse]

See edit above.

[CommGeek]

Can you site it.. I dont doubt you are correct.  But I would like to see the letter from John.

Thanks Again

[Eclipse]

Can you site it.. I dont doubt you are correct.  But I would like to see the letter from John.

Thanks Again

There's nothing posted publicly that I know of, that's why I say consult your chain - if your Wing ESO is
connected to the program, he is likely in contact with John on a regular basis.

[Al Sayre]

No, it has not.

You may wish to check up your chain, some wings are waiving it as it no longer is close to appropriate.  This waiver was per John Desmaris.

Can you post a copy of the waiver?

[jeders]

Can you site it.. I dont doubt you are correct.  But I would like to see the letter from John.

Thanks Again

There's nothing posted publicly that I know of, that's why I say consult your chain - if your Wing ESO is
connected to the program, he is likely in contact with John on a regular basis.

Then again your wing ESO and PDO may not know anything about it. When I tried to get 213D waived for my ES Tech rating, the people at Texas Wing thought I was talking about a Safety course, so I didn't even bother pushing it any further.

[Eclipse]

As I said, there's no "waiver", per se- these were conversations between my chain and John several years ago (when the test was already outdated).  That's why you need to work your chain on this.

[heliodoc]

I took the 213D 4 years ago and thought it was in dire need of overhaul.

CAP needs to address these types of issues and it just more than lip service and saying volunteer time is valuable.

We know it is.

But like all things CAP...... The issues of Form 5 currency, the lack of (in some Wings like mine) SBT training is WOEFULLY lacking and depending on the NHQ website for online training and EVEN the G1000 page has not been updated for years.  I got a smaller G1000 training package from the Mr Rice on the website.  So  go an look at it GAC 700 the new stuff vs KAP 140 etc etc etc etc

CAP needs either to make 60-3 fully operational, make 213D changes promptly and update it if this is to be taken seriously. Even to go further, how about those Specialty Tracks (Stan EVal) still referring to the 55 series manuals...either bring em back or make the Specialty Track updates relevant and current

This stuff is not rocket  science but it sure makes CAP look BEHIND.  Go ahead and blame the ECI and the USAF folks for the  213D  issues.  CAP is equally responsible in making things CURRENT and all Wings OUGHT to be making the John D waiver available...have not seen one here

So like everything CAP being behind and not updating other equally important documents is just the norm.....

[Eclipse]

Go ahead and blame the ECI and the USAF folks for the  213D  issues.

Why would anyone "blame" the USAF for the state of a CAP test?  They just admin them, they aren't responsible for the content.

[heliodoc]

Understandably

I just mentioned because BITD  ECI 13 was administering the test

I do not remember 213D coming or being requested from the CAP website

That is still why CAP ought to be on top of its "trademarked" materials...   if CAP "gots" a trademark on anything .... surely not on currency of materials!!

[Flying Pig]

This is why I have trouble getting serious about spending my personal time taking CAP courses.  I took on look at the ESO course and laughed and put it on the shelf about 2 yrs ago.  Capt Johnston taking his personal Cessan and crashing it on a search or something.  I felt like someone should have been tossing me a piece of candy and telling me I was a good boy for reading it.
Havnt touched it since.  In fact, I think I have had it to long now to complete it.

Same with the ECI-13.  Pretty stupid course actually.  I know some get all excited about it but I cant seem to get on board.  I went to SLS several years ago and me and the other former military guy were trying to keep each other awake correcting the instructor on customs and courtesies.  Good times had by all.

[heliodoc]

Yep , Rob

That is the one.  I only did it 'cuz at the time I was employed at Midwest EMA doing credentialing stuff for the agency while doing compliance checks for the Homeland Security pass down money for communities to buy equipment on grant money.  So while that was going on I took the course and unfortunately completed thinking somehow it would be a complimentary to the ES program.  How about that?  After 22 yrs as a helo mech in the USAR and ARNG, one would think I could see beyond that.

It is (now) and should have been more apparent to me back then...what a joke it was.  I thought it would be one of those things the Wing ESO's and NHQ types would be tracking.........RIIIIGHT

It is a joke.  What more of a joke is....while we as pilots have to be current on nearly everything flying wise, CAP can not even do the simplest of things.  For other CAPers reading this....tough....

These are things in need of a DIRE OVERHAUL.  CAP HQ / DO needs to do its part in  currency.  "'Cuz us folks in the REAL flying world are leadin by example....CAP NEEDS to do this pronto..preferably by 2035 AD

[billford1]

I really liked the ECI 13 course. It's great to learn about the History of our money, flag, ceremonies, military history and customs. If you answer all the questions in the back of each chapter the test will go well.

[RiverAux]

Hmm, if we are going to start waiving requirements because the material they are based on is out-of-date, we're not going to have much left....

[Eclipse]

I really liked the ECI 13 course. It's great to learn about the History of our money, flag, ceremonies, military history and customs. If you answer all the questions in the back of each chapter the test will go well.

This is not about ECI 13, this is about the old ES test.

[heliodoc]

^^^
Until something is more......current as far as this ECI course goes..........and when EVERY Wing ESO is able to identify it as a"viable course" for even considering it "continuing  education" for ES and it s updated in its entirety for the year 2010

Then some of those "requirements" ought to be waived until there is something coherent.

When I mean coherent....that means CAP gets with the USAF and either: 1) updates the 213D course as necessary to the ES operation or 2) get RID of it entirely through CAP and USAF channels so it is not even considered as part of ES education even as fun or light reading.

If it's out-of-date, and it is .......its no longer applicable, viable, or necessary.  Nothing much left except folding it up as a door stop.

CAP knows real well what out -of -date is and this one is it.  Time to get this one cleaned out of the archives.

Its a swell history of member owned aircraft and its use during missions....something CAP really frowns a upon now...

So that by itself, make its a  a document out of date. 

[adamblank]

After reading this thread, I called NHQ to see if there was a waiver process for this course, John D said no but a new one should be out soon.

[CadetProgramGuy]

After reading this thread, I called NHQ to see if there was a waiver process for this course, John D said no but a new one should be out soon.

I'm sorry to question, but it is 1am here.....A new course or a new waiver is due out soon?

[adamblank]

A waiver for the old AFIADL course.  John D said there was no such one but not to worry a new course would be out soon.