Do we really need 72-hour "packs"?

[RiverAux]

How often are we really hiking away from our vehicles and spending the night on ground team missions?  Very rarely.  I know it hasn't happened in at least 12 years in my wing, and we're pretty active in SAR.  The few missions where overnight stays were done involved camping right close to the vehicle.  I think there may have been a few FTXs where a hike was made with 72 hour gear, but thats it. 

Now, I'm sure that somewhere in CAP someone has had to hike a distance from their vehicle and spend the night for a real world mission, but I'm betting that happens fewer than 10 times a year across all CAP (and thats probably a generous estimate). 

So, in recognition of reality, why not drop the national requirement that the 72-hour gear be carried in a pack?  Allow the wings that feel that such a pack would be necessary given the types of missions they see to put that in a 60-3 supplement, but let the rest of CAP save some money to buy gear more useful in real life. 

[lordmonar]

I've addressed this before, here and when I was at NESA.

No...I don't think we need a 72 hour "pack" 99% of the time.

We are normally going to be sortied for 12 hours at a time...with a load out in chase we have to stay over night.  So out 24 hour packs should be dictated by the gear you have to take to accomplish that mission.

Our 72 hour packs are what we leave at the mission base/hotel room/contoment area/bivwac site/van and should have everything you need to support 3 days of missions.

Yes there are times when we may actually hike in one day, do one of searching and hike out the last day type missions....but those are the exceptions not the rule and those units that do that type of mission should identify the need to their people.

[Flying Pig]

I dont do Ground Team.  As a pilot, I go home at night.  On an actual SAR, when was the last time a CAP GT actually stayed out overnight in the field?

[RiverAux]

Oops. sorry guys, disregard this thread.  Forgot I had brought it up before.   The discussion about good 72 hour packs made me think about it.  Probably not worth having another thread on though.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=7907.0

[evolocomotive]

I agree, 72 hr packs are too much, as mentioned before, how long are you seriously going to be in the field?

[Airrace]

No...I don't think we need a 72 hour packs as they are to heavy.

[Major Carrales]

Hurricane relief and extended missions like HS and things like the Steve Fawcett search are examples of extended CAP deployment.  If you are local, then you go home.  However, those that travel need some sort of extended "pack" that is packed and ready to go at home.

Semper Vigilans is more than an cool Latin catch phrase.  I encourage all squadron members, be they pilots or ground team...senior or cadet, to have a uniform hanging ready to do and at least a 24-hour pack handy.  I carry mine in the car, it has items that have been very beneficial during breakdowns or rendering aid.

The idea of a "be prepared" pack is not "nerd stuff," it represents that we are ready.  Design your CAP gear for more than CAP use.  It will pay off...has several times for me.

Do we need a 72-hour pack at every mission?  Likely not, we need to be equipped based on the situation.  In our area, driving even to SARex (to San Antonio or Brownsville) sometimes means staying over night...be it at the Brownsville Airport at CAP STATION BROWNSVILLE or in a pitched tent outside of group V headquarters at Stinson Field in San Antonio.

Be ready or be ready to suffer a bit.

[lordmonar]

The question is "what is a 'PACK'".

For a GTM is there any requirement to have all you 72 hour gear in a backpack that you would be required to hike over hell's half acre during a mission.

Sure you need to bring all your gear to do missions for 3 days....but it can all be in plastic garbage bags...and you leave it in the van.

Those few places where you may go on long range patrol type mission should be identified well in advanced and that team should sortie as a special unit.

[RiverAux]

For a GTM is there any requirement to have all you 72 hour gear in a backpack that you would be required to hike over hell's half acre during a mission.

Yep, the GT task manual specifies backpack. 

[Hawk200]

The contents of the 72 hour pack are pretty useful, even if you're not going on a mission. It's a good built in packing list for just about anything. For a weekend SAREX, you can't go wrong with it.

There are far too many people that show up to SAREXs missing things. The last one I went to a guy showed up without a tent or toiletries. Thought he was gonna be put up in a hotel. It's kinda hard to tell someone that's not how it works when you just want to bust a gut laughing at them.

[lordmonar]

For a GTM is there any requirement to have all you 72 hour gear in a backpack that you would be required to hike over hell's half acre during a mission.

Yep, the GT task manual specifies backpack.

GT manual also says boonie hats and gortex jackets when we are not allowed to wear them.

[Hawk200]

GT manual also says boonie hats and gortex jackets when we are not allowed to wear them.

When did we lose the authorization for the GoreTex?

I know the boonie hat was denied by the Air Force, but I know of one wing that has a supplement authorizing them. Is it legal if the Air Force says "No", but the local wing allows it?

[lordmonar]

GT manual also says boonie hats and gortex jackets when we are not allowed to wear them.

When did we lose the authorization for the GoreTex?

I know the boonie hat was denied by the Air Force, but I know of one wing that has a supplement authorizing them. Is it legal if the Air Force says "No", but the local wing allows it?

The GT manual said to wear gortex before the USAF authorised us to wear it.  My point is when I brought this point up years ago I was lambasted that the GT manual is NOT regulatory.

[Hawk200]

The GT manual said to wear gortex before the USAF authorised us to wear it.  My point is when I brought this point up years ago I was lambasted that the GT manual is NOT regulatory.

I see your point. That points to the continuing issues of pubs contradicting each other.

[davedove]

The contents of the 72 hour pack are pretty useful, even if you're not going on a mission. It's a good built in packing list for just about anything. For a weekend SAREX, you can't go wrong with it.

Even if it's never used on a SAREX, the 72-hour pack is also a good "disaster preparedness" pack.  It contains nerely all the recommended items for a three day disaster kit.  So keeping one ready fills two purposes.

[MAWG cadet]

Even if it's never used on a SAREX, the 72-hour pack is also a good "disaster preparedness" pack.  It contains nerely all the recommended items for a three day disaster kit.  So keeping one ready fills two purposes.

Very true.
Also, if there is any chance at all that you will ever need 72 hour gear, its better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. My squadron ran a training bivouac that put us with only our 24 hour gear in the field for 24 hours (1200 to 1200 the next day) and it was pretty miserable. I'd much rather carry the weight of my pack knowing I have everything I'll ever need than to go out on a limb and bring only the essentials for survival.

[Rodriguez]

This is a valid argument. However, the 72-hour packs uses go beyond what the regs say. Essentialy the 72 hour pack is nothing more than extended provisions, more food, more water ect. It dosnt usualy carry anything in the way of additional equipment, at least It dosnt for me. All the equipment and tools I need are contained in my 24 hour gear, minus my sleeping gear and/or shelter equipment.

However, I have found that even durring 24-hour missions, many people are in need of provisions. A fellow team member may need water or some snacks. In addition, in the unlikely event that the mission becomes a life and death situation, the extra provisions may be needed to support an extended mission or to aid in the care of the injured or a mal nurished person for example.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Snip

And of course we have a mission like that everyday in CAP.

[Hawk200]

Snip

And of course we have a mission like that everyday in CAP.

Doesn't matter if it's daily or not. A mission is a mission, and they aren't always local. A 72 hour pack will cover it for those times when you won't be going home.

It's a pretty shoddy excuse to tell the mission base that "I can't stay because I don't have everything I need." Best to be straight up and say, "I'm not going to stay for longer than a day." It's not like you can be ordered to. One true aspect of our volunteer organization is that not everyone can stay for longer.

It is wrong to expect others to carry someone that didn't prepare properly. If you choose to stay at a mission base, you need to be prepared.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I'm talking about dragging along 72 hour gear on a local, small mission.

And I do want to see how many of these life or death situations have happened with CAP involvement in, say the last decade? Four? Maybe Six?