SOS, ACSC, AWC taken as a CAP member - Credit on Active Duty?

[jimmydeanno]

As many of you may, or may not know, my wife will be commissioning into the USAF in a few months.  She's an E-5 currently (4 years AD and 2 ANG).  She's also a CAP Major.

Because of her CAP grade she is eligible to take SOS and ACSC as a CAP member. 

So, I pose the following questions to those who know (please don't speculate) or have had experience in dealing with this same or similar situation before.

If she were to take SOS, ACSC or AWC as a CAP member would they give her credit for completion in her military career?

In other words, as a USAF 2d Lt & 1st Lt she would be ineligible to enroll via the USAF.  As a CAP Major she is eligible.  In her USAF role, she wouldn't need to complete SOS until she became a Capt. 

So, if she completes SOS as a CAP member as a USAF 2d Lt or 1st Lt (or even Capt) would they give her credit for the completion or would she have to take it again?

We can't seem to find any governing directives that would address the situation (it is practically a statistical anomaly).  Any help would be appreciated.

[Cecil DP]

I would bring that up with the Personnel Officer at her Military unit of assignment. Becasue they might say as long as she does the course it doesn't matter how, or they may say "Lt's can't get credit for the course, no matter how it's completed,"

[AlphaSigOU]

Again, this is one of those 'your mileage may vary' deals; She may get credit for taking SOS/ACSC/AWC via correspondence; the base education office/MPF would be the arbiter. Getting it done via correspondence may give her a leg up in competing for an in-residence slot when she's eligible.

[lordmonar]

Basicly....yes if you have taken SOS and/or ACSC then it will count toward your military records.  It may take special actions to get it into your records...but it should not be that hard.

The base education office is the place to go to make sure it gets up dated.

[jimmydeanno]

I definitely appreciate the responses so far, they have been helpful.  We were talking about this the other night.  When she was enlisted AD and doing her CDCs and ALS (correspondence) she had to have regular "check-ups" with her supervisor to make sure she was on track to complete on time, etc.  My assumption is that something similar happens with officers.

She found it to be rather difficult with that arrangement because she couldn't map out her own time and fit things in where they needed to be, couldn't spend more time on areas she needed to and less on the 'easier' sections, etc. 

I figured if she could do these courses early and get credit, while avoiding the whole bureaucratic process it might be beneficial.  Plus...it wouldn't be held against her if for some reason she ended up needing to dis-enroll, etc.

I also thought it might look a little better being a (AF) Captain with AWC done going for promotion to (AF) Major than her counterpart who had only completed SOS (True?)

[AlphaSigOU]

It would probably look good (but highly unusual) that a CGO (company grade officer, for the uninitiated) would have FGO (field grade officer) and senior officer PME by correspondence on their record. It'll probably be a head-scratcher until it's explained that it was taken through CAP. It might make the difference in making 'DP' (definitely promote) vs. 'P' (promote) when it comes time for her to go up to the Major promotion board. (That'll be a while.) And by taking it voluntarily you won't get penalized for maxing out time and getting disenrolled; you just have to start over at square one.

[Short Field]

Diplomas and such are not contained in a USAF personnel record.  You keep the diploma and your electronic record is updated.  When a promotion brief is prepared for a promotion or selection board, they mask certain fields that don't apply or they feel is not a consideration for selection at that level.   

Back in the day, when you met the Major promotion board, you wanted to have your Masters degree completed and ACSC completed by correspondence or siminar.  That made you competitive for promotion and selection to attend ACSC in-residence.  Several years ago, USAF decided they wanted Capts focused on other things and would mask the advanced degree and ISS (intermediate service school) fields on the record.

Things change so you have different rules now - or in the future.  Distance learning PME is considered a square-filler - it keeps you in the herd.  In-residence PME is considered a plus.  No PME is a minus.

[es_g0d]

If CAP enables you to take a course, such as SOS, then you're certainly entitled to do so.  And it WILL count towards your USAF PME.  Mike "Spike" Provencher of ND wing did exactly that as a CAP captain and USAF 2/1LT.

I have found it very beneficial to use the base's shred code (testing center) INSTEAD of the CAP wing's shred.  I have done this for 2 reasons.  1) If the AF test center is testing me, there will be no doubt that the test is valid (and I had these thoughts pre-Pineda-gate).  2) Personal convenience: I can get to the base testing center more easily than have a CAP person administer the test.  This is true for more than just PME, but for other CAP courses as well, such as specialty track courses.

[PHall]

I did SOS as a CAP member and got credit for it by the Air Force, after much haggling with the Base Education Office.

Since I was enlisted, about all I got out of it was a notation in my records that I had completed SOS via Corresponance and the retirement points.

But it did make a pretty good bullet statement on the EPR though.

[Stonewall]

Note:  I didn't read the other responses as I've got kids at my ankles...

I used my membership in CAP to my advantage for the Guard.  When I was a Life Supporter and waiting for my tech school date, I took the 5 Level CDC through CAP.  Later, I took 7 Level, before I achieved 5 Level status.

I had a friend do the same thing for other CDCs, etc.

In a nutshell, yes, it can be done.  It's a loophole that few know about or can comprehend, especially on the AF side where many are unfamiliar with our ability to take such courses.

[O-Rex]

Just out of curiosity, will she be required to attend the Aerospace Basic Course (ASBC) when she is commissioned?

Speaking of which, subsequent to the introduction of ASBC, the curriculum for SOS has changed somewhat, I would be curious to see what's been added/deleted.

If I were in her shoes, I would keep those PME's in my back pocket until they are needed.

[jimmydeanno]

Just out of curiosity, will she be required to attend the Aerospace Basic Course (ASBC) when she is commissioned?

She's going the AFROTC route, so she had to go to field training last summer and is set to commission first thing for FY '10. 

From there she'll be going to ASBC and Tech School.  She just got her career field the other day, but won't find out where her first duty station is until around September (I really would like to know if we're going to Hawaii or not... )

[AlphaSigOU]

Unless she's in a training pipeline that precludes her from attending ASBC shortly after commissioning there's no getting around it, even though ASBC is a re-hash of stuff already learned in the officer accession programs (USAFA, ROTC, OTS, COT). A six-week TDY to Max-hell.

What AFSC did she get into, if I may ask?

[jimmydeanno]

What AFSC did she get into, if I may ask?

Currently, she's a 3C051 and she'll be a 33SX

[AlphaSigOU]

What AFSC did she get into, if I may ask?

Currently, she's a 3C051 and she'll be a 33SX

Commo, huh? Takes a little for me to get used to the new-fangled AFSC codes - my old school AFSC was 622X0 (Food Service Specialist), which is now merged into Services (3M0X1).

[flyguy06]

What AFSC did she get into, if I may ask?

Currently, she's a 3C051 and she'll be a 33SX

And what does that mean? all of us dont know these numbers andletters? (why do people do that)

[flyguy06]

So you're saying that if I take ACSC(becasue I am a MAJ in CAP) I can use it in the army for Command and Staff College (I am a CPT in the army)

[DBlair]

So you're saying that if I take ACSC(becasue I am a MAJ in CAP) I can use it in the army for Command and Staff College (I am a CPT in the army)

I believe so, because it seems that each branch accepts the PME of the sister services. I haven't specifically researched the Army very much, but according to what I've read, the Marines accept the AF PME credit as a sister service courtesy thing- which seems to be a norm across branches as I've seen a variety of RM officers with PME credit from other branches and so forth.

This could be advantageous for promotions, getting into other courses and so forth to be 'PME complete' early on. I plan on taking as many distance learning courses as I can through CAP- between extra retirement points, possible advantages in promotion boards, and the possibility of being 'PME Complete' which will allow certain other courses to be taken, it could be a pretty nice deal- not to mention that we can put a nice little star in our CAP ribbon for taking it. lol

[jimmydeanno]

And what does that mean? all of us dont know these numbers andletters? (why do people do that)

3C051 = COMMUNICATIONS - COMPUTER SYSTEMS OPERATIONS JOURNEYMAN (Enlisted Air Force Specialty Code, the "5" is the skill level and can be variable from 1,3,5,7)

Supervises and performs Communications-Computer Systems (C-CS) operations and executes associated information systems support programs. Performs network management, control, and administration on DoD local, metropolitan, and wide area networks, and Command, Control, Communications, Computer and Intelligence systems, Defense Message Systems (DMS), command and control, and functional area systems. Administers Communications Security (COMSEC) and Information Assurance (IA) programs. Provides information systems life-cycle management.

33SX = COMMUNICATIONS & INFORMATION (Officer Air Force Specialty Code, the "X" is variable based on skill level 1=Entry,3=Qualified,4=Staff)

The communications and information (comm and info) career area encompasses a broad range of expertise: network systems operations, including information assurance, computer network defense and electronic protection; information resource management, including chief information officer (CIO) duties; systems engineering and architecture design; telecommunications, space, command and control, and flight-line systems maintenance; postal operations, and visual information management. Comm and info officers plan, design, build, manage and maintain communications and information systems architectures; plan and organize comm and info acquisition management activities; perform comm and info engineering functions; direct information life-cycle management activities; and provide executive officer support

[AlphaSigOU]

Don't forget some enlisted AFSCs also have a 9 code (Superintendent) - usually assigned to one who is a SMSgt; Even fewer enlisted AFSCs will have the '00' code (Chief Enlisted Manager) for CMSgt.