Tigerstrike Report

[Al Sayre]

As promised, here is the report on the Tigerstrike unit.  Jim Henson came over from Alabama with a unit this morning.  Unfortunately, it appears the unit was damaged in shipping.  As was stated on the other thread, it is a hand built unit and the ergonimcs seemed quite well designed, and it looked quite professionally made.  I would like to see a set of auxiliary antennas that could be vehicle mounted as an option, like the L-Per to extend the range. 

Unfortunately it appears some of the solder joints or internal connections came loose in transit, and the unit would not operate properly.  It would start working when tapped, and then quit, and the signal strength indications were erratic.  I attribute this to the hand built nature of the unit coupled with shipping damage, and not a faulty design.  They are supposed to be sending us another unit shortly to try out and I will report those results in a fair and unbiased manner.  Let's keep the bashing to a minimum until the next unit arrives.

[SE_Tigerstrike]

Thanks for that, Al...

I think I was more upset than you guys were, but then you didn't drive 9 hours to get there and back.  I think Richard is really looking forward to having one for a few days to play with out in the woods instead of having me standing there watching him while he tinkers with it. 

I am putting in Richard's request for one as soon as I save this message, then I need to pack up the damaged one and ship it out to the factory so they can crack the whip on the techs and get them to find their mistake...I'll be a lot happier when the robots start making them instead of techs squinting over the SMT circuit boards.

[Major Lord]

Any word on the Tigerstrike evaluation? Did the Sq that purchased one ever receive a unit?

Major Lord

[SE_Tigerstrike]

Hello again, Major Lord.

Found out what went wrong with the demo in Mississippi.  The TigerStrike I had was a prototype, so it's not the milspec final product...  It was built in Arizona. I had it in Mississippi, the morning after storms rolled through. Arizona has humidity of about .02. Mississippi, on a Saturday morning out on an airfield with lots of grass the day after thunderstorms has a humidity level of about 1000%. You can cut the air down here it's so thick...

Underneath 2 of the chips on the motherboard there were through holes, and a ground point. Condensation formed under the chips, and grounded them out. Once the Tigerstrike was back in Arizona the tech took it out of the box, tried it out, and couldn't get it to work at all (same responses I had in Mississippi). He set it on the bench and went home, puzzled as to why it wouldn't work. He came back the next morning, picked it back up to see if he could figure it out, and it worked just fine.

Sitting in a workshop in Arizona dried it out.

So, board redesign, no more little condensation points under chips, and a few more tweaks added.  Al Sayre should be getting one to evaluate once the new boards are all done and tested.

On another note, Major Lord, there was a TigerStrike on that big rescue right down the road from you recently.  Was out there for about a week.  Murray looked for you a few times, but no one out there had seen you on the rescue.  He was planning to let you take a look at the TigerStrike, but maybe next time.  His being out there on that rescue for so long kinda slowed things down a bit, he tends to be the one cracking the whip in the company.

There's more info in the TigerStrike Blog every now and then.  Link is in my signature now, for anyone that's interested.

[Major Lord]

I am sorry I missed the opportunity to see Murray and the unit. I assume that since there was no ELT going off, there was not too much to do with the TS.....pity. I am inactive in CAP-ES, since bugs ate holes in my intestines while I spent about a year on the ground post-Katrina. (Don't drink the water!) Will you be sending a unit back to Al Sayre for eval?

Major Lord

[SE_Tigerstrike]

Yes, once the boards are finished and fully tested so we don't have a repeat of the problem we had when I ran out there the first time.  I actually spoke to him on the phone today and let him know what was going on with it.

And no, the TigerStrike wasn't a lot of use without the ELT, but Murray still stayed and helped with the search, he was out of touch for a week while he was out there searching.

[Major Lord]

Was there anyone here who got a chance to see this elusive Tigerstrike beast on the CAWG mission out there?

[SE_Tigerstrike]

Yes, everyone that was around when he was trying to use it.  He did answer some questions about it, but it wasn't a demo, it was a search and rescue, and he was more interested in trying to rescue the guy missing.  Once it was apparent there was nothing to hear, he put it up and went on with the rescue effort.

But, I am sure plenty of people out there around you got a look at it, since I understand this was right in your own backyard, wasn't it?

[Major Lord]

I am in Napa, which is pretty far from the search ( even further from the crash!) but I was hoping someone on this page might have had a chance to see it in person, since there are lots of active ES people here. Maybe Major Keilholtz had a chance to see it, I will give him a call.

Major Lord

[SE_Tigerstrike]

Sorry for the delay in responding Al, the wife just had surgery and was recovering, I've been hopping around taking care of her and the grandkids.  She's back at work now, so I should be able to get back to work too. 

Remember, I am all the way over in Alabama, so wherever Napa is, if you're in the same state as the rescue, it's in your backyard compared to me. 

I know quite a few people got to look it over before he put it away and they moved on to other ways to search, but I don't know who they might have been.  Ask around though, someone you know is bound to have seen it by now.

That, or just do as suggested and call the company and arrange a demo for yourself and your friends.  They'll be more than happy to come out and show you what it's all about.

[Major Lord]

Jim,

No problem, I have been out of town in beautiful Dayton Ohio exhibiting my products at the 2009 Hamvention, and was not checking e-mail anyway. I hope your wife is okay. FYI, California is about the size of Iraq, but there are more people that hate America here.....

No joy on finding someone who saw the unit, so I will see if I can arrange a demo. My offer to host a demo on Travis AFB still stands if you have someone this far north.

I like Alabama! I just have a few questions though: How many catfish constitute a "mess" of catfish? Can they  make low-carb, avocado flavored grits for Californians? Can I order just one grit to try it? What exactly is a crawfish pie?

Best regards,

Major Lord

[SE_Tigerstrike]

Call the 1-888 number in my signature and they'll be more than happy to travel to you to do a demo.  I think Bob Miller is the one Murray kept telling you to talk to about it, he'll set it up for you.

A mess of catfish would be a little less than a whole passel of catfish.  Mix some avocado into your grits and presto, there ya go, grits go with everything.  Grits are cheap enough, you can order a serving and eat just one grit if you want to.  A crawfish pie would be like a beef pot pie, but made with crawfish instead.

[calguy]

I talked to Major Keilholtz and he advised me that he still has never seen the unit or been offered one.   Is Tigerstrike afraid of something???

[SE_Tigerstrike]

Knock it off.  Don't be so obvious in your attempts to have this thread shut down like the last one.

Anyone can call the number below and request a demo.  California is the most heavily represented state for the TigerStrike, seeing one is as easy as picking up a phone and asking to.  Anyone that fails to see one, simply doesn't want to see it.

[Major Lord]

CAWG is going to have a GSAR concurrent with Encampment. That would be an excellent opportunity to demo the unit for our SAR players.  I will call next week and see if we can set that up with your people.

Major Lord

[SE_Tigerstrike]

Shouldn't even have to wait until next week, just call, and if you don't get anyone, leave a voicemail.

[SARPilotNY]

I am in California for the month.  I would love to see the unit in action.  Better yet, I would like to see Capt. Keilholtz test the unit during a feild exercise.  I think he has more experience than anyone else.  Can Lt. Col. Butts or Major Craig or Miller get a unit to him and have him report back to us?  Has he ever seen the unit?

[SarDragon]

[OT]
BTW, FYI, it's Major Keilholtz now.
[/OT]

[a2capt]

For some reason.. it certainly appears the Keilholtz has no interest in this thing .. because you'd think with how far and wide he gets around, he'd have seen it, been talking about it, etc.

So, no tests, no takers, and no working unit delivered east of the Mississippi yet?

What a bunch of bunk.

[SE_Tigerstrike]

Call the number in my signature and request a demo.  Major Keilholtz can do the same.

As far as east of Mississippi, last time I talked to the president of the company, Bob Miller, he said he'd fly out and do the next demo for the Mississippi guys.  I'll drive over to meet with him when he does.

I'm currently waiting to get one of the next generation units myself, have a demo to do next week here in Alabama, but for the Project Lifesaver, not the CAP capabilities of it.

As for the "what a bunch of bunk" comment.  It is not up to me to hunt down someone all the way out there in California and force them to look over the TigerStrike.  If he wants to see one, he can pick up the phone just like anyone else.

Everyone, call the number below and request a demo if you want one.  Otherwise, quit your griping.  Feel free to give my name if you feel like it, or not if you don't. 

Makes little difference to me.

[RADIOMAN015]

Call the number in my signature and request a demo.  Major Keilholtz can do the same.

As for the "what a bunch of bunk" comment.  It is not up to me to hunt down someone all the way out there in California and force them to look over the TigerStrike.  If he wants to see one, he can pick up the phone just like anyone else.

Everyone, call the number below and request a demo if you want one.  Otherwise, quit your griping.  Feel free to give my name if you feel like it, or not if you don't. 

Makes little difference to me.

Looks to me like there's a lot of msg traffic with very little meat (unbiased evaluations by CAP personnel).  I highly doubt that most of us in CAP overall are going to have a signficant interest in purchasing this product anyways.  Too expensive, and there's less expensive, highly satisfactory equipment currently in our inventory OR available for purchase.  It also seems to me that ELT call outs have been greatly reduced since the turn off of the SARSAT 121.5 mhz monitoring capability anyways.   

I've got to wonder why you would haven't contacted CAP National Headquarters, or even looked at any of the regional & wing websites that have ES staff officers with email address.   I'm confident they could get a team of experienced personnel to watch as well as evaluate the unit. 

In my real day job we deal with vendors all the time and it seems that those with new products basically make the rounds in each region of the US (e.g. they fly in to lets say Boston and travel to the New England states by rental car) with appointments that they make ahead of time to the various regional wholesalers purchasing/technical departments.    It's almost laughable in the way you are trying to market this product  
RM   

[a2capt]

I wouldn't call it a gripe, but more like..  well, I mean, has anyone actually seen one besides a "hand assembled" DOA unit? Where are all these promised reviews, etc?

Has anyone that ordered one actually gotten one? Anyone who is impartial, that plunked down coin for one, not some principal tooting their own horn. Has the delivery date slipped? This has been nearly six months and it certainly implied it was around the corner. Thats an awful lot of cash to drop just to wait, or to be soliciting while still working with just prototypes.

Gotta love marketing. "Firestorm is a leading provider of radio direction products, technologies, and data for government agencies and professional markets."

Leading provider? Have they provided anyone yet, but their own? You'd think someone would have posted a review by now .. oh, wait, they'll use the excuse that their message will get picked apart. Nope, I don't think that would happen.

Thats the bunk I speak of.

[SE_Tigerstrike]

Looks to me like there's a lot of msg traffic with very little meat (unbiased evaluations by CAP personnel). 

That's because, in a previous thread, when a person not affiliated with the company in any way posted a message about the TigerStrike others decided, for reasons of their own, to attack and cause a battle that eventually got that thread locked.  It would be preferred if the same thing didn't occur in this thread.  But, regardless, no one from the company came to the CAPtalk forums trying to market the device.  The company CTO, who happens to be a CAP member, like most of the people in the company, responded to the messages when he stumbled over them.  He told me about these forums, and I came in to answer questions and post updates/info about the device.

I highly doubt that most of us in CAP overall are going to have a signficant interest in purchasing this product anyways.  Too expensive, and there's less expensive, highly satisfactory equipment currently in our inventory OR available for purchase. 

There is a significant interest in the TigerStrike from a wide area of CAP personnel, though the device is being re-designed to serve a wider purpose.  It now seems that it will be of far more use with Project Lifesaver, though its initial purpose, finding ELTs, is still valid and it's still being developed towards that end.  One thing you must remember, this is a product under development, not something sitting on store shelves somewhere.  Yes, you can buy one, and yes, you will get one when they roll out of the factory all shiny and new, and even yes, they ARE being used today whenever one is near a SAR that needs to be done, but it's STILL UNDER DEVELOPMENT.  The only fully functional application for the TigerStrike at the moment is it's CAP role, but it's still an unfinished device.  Interest in it has pushed things a bit faster than was intended, including flame wars in these forums.

But, the TigerStrike DOES exist, IS under development, and HAS withstood two investigations initiated over claims that it does not exist.  Limited info about that last part is in the previous TigerStrike thread.

It also seems to me that ELT call outs have been greatly reduced since the turn off of the SARSAT 121.5 mhz monitoring capability anyways.   

It's the very fact of the SARSAT no longer monitoring the 121.5 that prompted the creation of the TigerStrike in the first place.

I've got to wonder why you would haven't contacted CAP National Headquarters, or even looked at any of the regional & wing websites that have ES staff officers with email address.   I'm confident they could get a team of experienced personnel to watch as well as evaluate the unit. 

Such HAS been done, call the company for any information along those lines you need.

In my real day job we deal with vendors all the time and it seems that those with new products basically make the rounds in each region of the US (e.g. they fly in to lets say Boston and travel to the New England states by rental car) with appointments that they make ahead of time to the various regional wholesalers purchasing/technical departments.    It's almost laughable in the way you are trying to market this product  

Remember, it's a device still under development...but if you had bothered to read the previous thread, you would see that what you state as the way to do things is how it's being done.  People from the company fly all over California doing demos on a constant basis.  The original intent was for me to do similar in the SE, but apparently the individual squadrons down here have far less input in their own equipment choices than they do in California, based on the extensive calls to various squadrons down here.

I wouldn't call it a gripe, but more like..  well, I mean, has anyone actually seen one besides a "hand assembled" DOA unit? Where are all these promised reviews, etc?

So far as I know, only the one I had was a DOA unit.  All the others worked fine, but the design flaw in the one I had prompted the others being cycled through to get updated boards to stop the problem from recurring.  I am waiting on a new board version now for a demo I have to do next week.

Has anyone that ordered one actually gotten one?

Yes.  And before you ask, the same answer goes out again, the company isn't going to provide you with a list of people they have sold to.  They wouldn't even provide me with that if I was dumb enough to ask.

Has the delivery date slipped?

Obviously.  Name me one product that has EVER come out on schedule.

This has been nearly six months and it certainly implied it was around the corner. Thats an awful lot of cash to drop just to wait, or to be soliciting while still working with just prototypes.

It's been in development a lot longer than that.  If you don't want to drop the cash and wait, then don't.  You can wait just fine without doing so.  On that note, price I mean, a representative from Becker looked over the TigerStrike and laughed at the "stupid americans".  He was of the opinion that it was seriously underpriced, and a great device.  But then, as I understand it, their system costs quite a bit.

You'd think someone would have posted a review by now .. oh, wait, they'll use the excuse that their message will get picked apart. Nope, I don't think that would happen.

I've actually never seen anyone say that...but considering how happy most of you are to attack, I can see your point.

One thing I HAVE learned by being here on CAPtalk.  You guys in here seem to think you are the be-all/end-all of CAP, when a lot of CAP members either haven't heard of these forums, or consider them a waste of time.  I have been the one in the company to argue that the CAPtalk forums are important, even though only a tiny number of CAP members pay any attention to them, if for no other reason than someone outside the company thought enough of the TigerStrike to post a message in here telling people about it.  And that was BEFORE the TigerStrike was officially released, while the guys were wandering around doing demos and showing off the upcoming technology.

Back off...give the company time to get everything finished and out the door.  If you want to see it and THEN form an opinion on it, call the number below and arrange a demo.  Until you do such a thing, how can you even form an opinion?  Opinions formed without objective data are worth nothing, and so are those that argue the point without having any idea what they are talking about.

So get off your backsides and find out for yourself.  Or is dialing a phone too much effort?

[Major Lord]

There are a number of reasons that people are so skeptical about the TigerStrike. The initial posting was by the commander of the Fresno squadron, who said that they paid for one and expected to have it in about two weeks. This was months ago. To the best of my knowledge, no such unit has been delivered. When the question of whether the product exists came up, Murray Craig came on this board to give a third-Party endorsement of the device which he claimed was being produced by " CAP members". As it turns out, Murray Craig is the producer of the TS unit. (Murray Craig is on the National HQ PA.) I asked Maj. Craig if he was the Canadian gentleman I met at the National Convention in St. Louis a few years back demonstrating a new DF unit. He categorically denied this. This was later proven to be.....well inaccurate.... Attempts for independent third parties to see a unit have been so far unsuccessful. Attempts to verify the claim that Firestorm is  the 'leading supplier" of DF gear to Governments and Industry, or that there is a single TigerStrike unit in service have been unsuccessful. Attempts to identify the corporate officers of the Nevada Corporation "Firestorm" have been unsuccessful, a corporation in suspension for failing to divulge its corporate officers ( the last time I checked anyway) There is no record of a part 15 FCC certification that I have been able to locate, or any indication that Firestorm is a GSA vendor that I can find. Attempts to deliver a working unit for evaluation or to bring a working unit to a SAREX for public viewing have so far not produced an independent witness who can verify that it functions as promised, or even exists, although there are several photos of units and units in production.

What we seem to have is a group of people interested in SAR trying to develop a product and relying on advanced sales to fund R&D. There is nothing wrong with this as long as the purchasers are aware that delivery times are predicated upon the vendor completing R&D.

Another view point is that a company consisting largely of Senior CAP personnel, (Bob Miller, Murray Craig, Ron Butts) with the authority to recommend or authorize the purchase of equipment, and accepting venture capital from at least one CAP unit, is largely a speculative venture, relying on their positions of special power to acquire a contract for producing gear that CAP arguably needs.

I await Firestorms' production of a single verifiable unit, so that independent and qualified personnel can evaluate the hardware. A working prototype would be nice, but more importantly, going into actual production would set aside any lingering fears that this is nothing but a scam.

I renew my offer to host a public demonstration on Travis AFB, and also suggest the GSAR to be held in August on Camp SLO as a wonderful opportunity to demo a functioning TS unit for skilled users.

Major Lord

[SE_Tigerstrike]

Al...  So much of what you are spouting now is inaccurate I don't really know where to start.

Yes, Major Craig is Canadian.  No, he's not been to a convention in St. Louis.  Yes, he's the CTO of the Firestorm company (and never pretended not to be).  No, the company ISN'T (nor has it been) under any kind of suspension for failing to divulge anything.  Yes, there are a LOT of independent third parties forming opinions about the TigerStrike, Ron Butts being one of them.  NO, he's not affiliated with the company, paid by them, or attached in any way other than having been so <BLEEP>ing impressed by the TigerStrike as to decide, on his own, that showing it off and doing demos with his own TigerStrike would be a good thing to do.  You yourself have made NO attempts to see a TigerStrike or attend one of the many demos of it that have occured, including never having called to make arrangements for any demo being done as you have been repeatedly instructed to do.  Standing here with your eyes closed screaming about how it doesn't exist because no one has bothered to track you down and beat you over the head with it is just silly, and shows a distinct lack of interest in truth of any type.

Pick up the phone, call 1-888-212-6260, find Bob Miller in the directory, and talk to him about getting a demo.  He's been sitting there all lonely waiting for your call for months now, Al...but for some reason you just don't ever call him.  Are you TRYING to hurt his feelings?

Bottom line, once again, ANYONE, even Al there, can call and ask for a demo.  If you have ANY questions or doubts, but aren't willing to do anything about settling those doubts for yourself other than attacking the company in these forums, then I have no respect for you at all.  I thought CAP personnel were supposed to be professionals, not little children trying to kill something just because it's new and different.  Grow up.  Call for your own demo, and if AFTER you have seen it, touched it, played with it, experimented with it, Hell, SNIFFED it for all I care, you still don't like it, then fine.  You will at least have been able to make up your own mind, based on your own experience with the TigerStrike, not just stupid attacks on a forum somewhere.

Oh, and one other thing to think about...  If this were a scam, it wouldn't be a very good one.  You aren't paying the Firestorm guys to come show it to you, they are paying for their own travel to get to you.  You are just picking up a phone and making a call (on their dime, btw, it's IS a free call for you), and they jump and run as soon as they are able to show up and do their demo.  Yes, further down the line it will (hopefully, I mean, it IS a business, after all) pay off, but until then, lots of travel money, hotel money, car rental money, meals, shipping units everywhere, etc.  And they aren't asking you for a single cent of it.

Now, stop the attacks, stop the silliness, and find out for yourself.

Gotta go, I have work to do.

[MIKE]

Lock.