AF Blue Ties

[cadetnelson]

I've noticed something, at least in my squadron, that I wondered if there is any "regulation" base for.  It seems that only the cadet officers in my squadron wear the blue tie with their short sleeve "blues" uniform.  Is this coincidence or is there a regulation against airmen wearing the tie?  I can't find anything on it in 39-1.

[MIKE]

Nope... Unit thing.

[shorning]

The only regulation in CAPM 39-1.

In my opinion, wearing  ties with short sleeved shirts looks a little silly.  I think people believes it makes them more dressy.  Personally, I think it kinda looks like they are living in the 60s.  Used in that manner, it's just another barrier between those in charge and those not.  It could just as easily be a hat, a shoulder cord, or an ascot.

[cadetnelson]

thanks

[md132]

Ties are optional for short sleeve blues but are mandatory for long sleeve or full service uniforms.  

[Camas]

Just watch that T-shirt if you wear an open-collar shortsleeved uniform.  No crew-neck.  I have to agree with Col Horning; the tie with the shortsleeved shirt doesn't cut it.  I go back to the days of the 505's and 1505's when the only time a tie was worn was when the 505 bushjacket was worn.

[Major_Chuck]

The only time I wore a tie with my s/s blue AF shirt was when I had to put on the service jacket.  Once the jacket came off so did the tie.

It does look silly.

[Eclipse]

The only time I wore a tie with my s/s blue AF shirt was when I had to put on the service jacket.  Once the jacket came off so did the tie.

It does look silly.

I don't know if that was authorized in the past, but today a long sleeve blouse is required with the service coat.

[shorning]

The only time I wore a tie with my s/s blue AF shirt was when I had to put on the service jacket.  Once the jacket came off so did the tie.

It does look silly.

I don't know if that was authorized in the past, but today a long sleeve blouse is required with the service coat.

Funny...that's not what the uniform manual says (see Table 2-1, Line 2).

[SarDragon]

Just watch that T-shirt if you wear an open-collar shortsleeved uniform.  No crew-neck.  I have to agree with Col Horning; the tie with the shortsleeved shirt doesn't cut it.  I go back to the days of the 505's and 1505's when the only time a tie was worn was when the 505 bushjacket was worn.

Ah, the bush jacket. My ex-wife escaped with my last remaining example.

[shorning]

Just watch that T-shirt if you wear an open-collar shortsleeved uniform.  No crew-neck.  I have to agree with Col Horning; the tie with the shortsleeved shirt doesn't cut it.  I go back to the days of the 505's and 1505's when the only time a tie was worn was when the 505 bushjacket was worn.

Ah, the bush jacket. My ex-wife escaped with my last remaining example.

You're just beggin' for a gibe here....

[Major_Chuck]

The only time I wore a tie with my s/s blue AF shirt was when I had to put on the service jacket.  Once the jacket came off so did the tie.

It does look silly.

I don't know if that was authorized in the past, but today a long sleeve blouse is required with the service coat.

Funny...that's not what the uniform manual says (see Table 2-1, Line 2).

I'm going way way way back on that.  I haven't worn service jacket since mid 80's.

[Eclipse]

The only time I wore a tie with my s/s blue AF shirt was when I had to put on the service jacket.  Once the jacket came off so did the tie.

It does look silly.

I don't know if that was authorized in the past, but today a long sleeve blouse is required with the service coat.

Funny...that's not what the uniform manual says (see Table 2-1, Line 2).

Yep, that's right...short sleeve shirt with a sport coat...blech.

[SarDragon]

Just watch that T-shirt if you wear an open-collar shortsleeved uniform.  No crew-neck.  I have to agree with Col Horning; the tie with the shortsleeved shirt doesn't cut it.  I go back to the days of the 505's and 1505's when the only time a tie was worn was when the 505 bushjacket was worn.

Ah, the bush jacket. My ex-wife escaped with my last remaining example.

You're just beggin' for a gibe here....

So, jibe, or not. Yours, the choice is.

What can this olde major do to an upstart light colonel?

[shorning]

So, jibe, or not. Yours, the choice is.

What can this olde major do to an upstart light colonel?

Nah...I'll just go stow my gear adrift.

[NIN]

I don't know if that was authorized in the past, but today a long sleeve blouse is required with the service coat.

Funny...that's not what the uniform manual says (see Table 2-1, Line 2).

I was digging for exactly that when I read this reply.

The long sleeve shirt is not required with service dress. For appearance's sake it looks better, but its not required

[mikeylikey]

Don't wear the short sleeve shirt!  The business world is moving away from short-sleeve shirts, they just don't look professional anymore, they are more casual than anything else.

[Nathan]

Don't wear the <a  style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=34&k=short%20sleeve%20shirt" onmouseover="window.status='short sleeve shirt'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">short sleeve shirt</a>!  The business world is moving away from <a  style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=34&k=short%20sleeve%20shirts" onmouseover="window.status='short-sleeve shirts'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">short-sleeve shirts</a>, they just don't look professional anymore, they are more casual than anything else.

Why?

If you wear it in blues, then chances are you are somewhat casual. The blue uniform IS the somewhat casual uniform. BDU's are a work uniform, so really, the short sleeve Blues is as close as we get to civies.

If it's going to be under a jacket, no one's going to see it anyway. I always wear a short sleeve shirt under my jacket; I don't get toasted as quickly.

[Pylon]

If it's going to be under a jacket, no one's going to see it anyway. I always wear a short sleeve shirt under my jacket; I don't get toasted as quickly.

I'd have to disagree with this.  If you're going to wear a jacket, you should be wearing the long-sleeve shirt.  Why?  Because it looks really, really tacky to not have a flash of the shirts cuff extending beyond the cuff of the jacket.  In fact, it's a mark of a well-fitting suit and shirt to have about half an inch or so of the shirt's cuff showing.

Not to mention, if you're wearing the AF cuff links with the long-sleeve shirt, like I do, you look even that much sharper with them just barely showing while wearing the Service Dress Uniform.  You want to look sharp in this uniform -- not look like you take the easiest route to getting dressed in the morning.  If you don't need to look that sharp, then don't wear the service dress at all.  Makes no sense to me to do otherwise.

[SarDragon]

The LS Shirt keeps the sweat out of the jacket sleeves, too. The jacket lasts a lot longer that way. Sweat will kill the lining quickly.

[mikeylikey]

Don't wear the <a  style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=34&k=short%20sleeve%20shirt" onmouseover="window.status='short sleeve shirt'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">short sleeve shirt</a>!  The business world is moving away from <a  style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=34&k=short%20sleeve%20shirts" onmouseover="window.status='short-sleeve shirts'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">short-sleeve shirts</a>, they just don't look professional anymore, they are more casual than anything else.

Why?

If you wear it in blues, then chances are you are somewhat casual. The blue uniform IS the somewhat casual uniform. BDU's are a work uniform, so really, the short sleeve Blues is as close as we get to civies.

If it's going to be under a jacket, no one's going to see it anyway. I always wear a short sleeve shirt under my jacket; I don't get toasted as quickly.

I will have to disagree, what would happen if you had to take your jacket off?  Then you would probably be the only person in a short sleeve shirt with a tie on.  That stinks of  unprofessionalism.  Unless you are in Miami on a 95 degree day, don't wear short sleeves.  I rarely see any Air force personnel in short sleeves, in fact, it is almost taboo for an officer to wear short sleeves.

[Nathan]

I will have to disagree, what would happen if you had to take your jacket off?  Then you would probably be the only person in a short sleeve shirt with a tie on.  That stinks of  unprofessionalism.  Unless you are in Miami on a 95 degree day, don't wear short sleeves.  I rarely see any Air force personnel in short sleeves, in fact, it is almost taboo for an officer to wear short sleeves.

Then don't take your jacket off. I've gone a few hours in a jacket without needing to take it off. If you aren't planning on wearing a jacket during the event, then don't where it at all. Seems pretty cut-and-dry to me...

[cadetnelson]

Well, in our unit, the wear the short sleeves in the summer b/c here it gets up to 110.  I like the look of the short sleeve shirt, unprofessional or not.  But I would definitely not wear it w/ the service coat.  To me that just seems wierd.

[Eclipse]

One problem w/ the SS Shirt, and especially the w/ the tie, is that for some
reason it seems to make those of us w/ a "package shelf" appear even heavier.

Couple that with a choice of 1" over the buckle (vs 1" below) and it looks real sloppy.

I think if its a short sleeve "day" leave the tie home, and if it's a tie day, wear the long sleeves.

[shorning]

I rarely see any Air force personnel in short sleeves, in fact, it is almost taboo for an officer to wear short sleeves.

Wow!  You must see a different Air Force than I do.  I see officers wearing short-sleeves every day!  In fact, there is only one Air Force officer that wears a long-sleeved shirt at all.  I'm not just talking about junior officers either.  Every Air Force officer that works in my area is a field grade officer.  Even the Air Force general officers in my command (1-3 stars) wear short-sleeved shirts if they aren't going to a "service dress event" that day. 

Of course, no one wears a tie with the short-sleeved shirt.  That wouldn't be "unprofessional".  It is possible to wear a tie with the short-sleeved shirt and still look professional.  However, like I've said before, that look is dated.  It just isn't that common anymore despite what happens in CAP.

[Eclipse]

I rarely see any Air force personnel in short sleeves, in fact, it is almost taboo for an officer to wear short sleeves.

Wow!  You must see a different Air Force than I do.  I see officers wearing short-sleeves every day!  In fact, there is only one Air Force officer that wears a long-sleeved shirt at all.  I'm not just talking about junior officers either.  Every Air Force officer that works in my area is a field grade officer.  Even the Air Force general officers in my command (1-3 stars) wear short-sleeved shirts if they aren't going to a "service dress event" that day. 

Of course, no one wears a tie with the short-sleeved shirt.  That wouldn't be "unprofessional".  It is possible to wear a tie with the short-sleeved shirt and still look professional.  However, like I've said before, that look is dated.  It just isn't that common anymore despite what happens in CAP.

Yes - I let that one lie, but I agree - everybody on the Navy base wears short sleeves, or at least NCO's and officers after whatever the summer date is.

Does Hawaii stay short sleeves all years round or is there a "winter" uniform cycle?

[shorning]

Yes - I let that one lie, but I agree - everybody on the Navy base wears short sleeves, or at least NCO's and officers after whatever the summer date is.

Does Hawaii stay short sleeves all years round or is there a "winter" uniform cycle?

Well, I presumed we were only talking about Air Force uniforms.  Maybe I missed something.

But to answer your question, I've only seen summer whites or short-sleeved khakis when a "service uniform" is required (i.e. daily wear in my command).  In talking to my Navy counterparts, Hawaii is "summer" year-round.

[footballrun21]

Most cadets (and seniors) only have the short sleeve blues, so we don't really have a choice with lookng good by wearing long sleeves with a tie.

We wear ties during the winter and take them off after daylight savings.

[shorning]

We wear ties during the winter and take them off after daylight savings.

But why?

[Pylon]

Most cadets (and seniors) only have the short sleeve blues, so we don't really have a choice with lookng good by wearing long sleeves with a tie.

This is where tapping into DRMO, local ANG/Reserve/Active duty base surplus uniforms, and other available sources for uniforms comes in handy.  It's cold up here during the winter and almost all of my cadets get issued a long-sleeved blues shirt that fits them.  Of course, most all of my cadets also get issued new-style service coats, BDUs, and sometimes even shoes, boots, and hats.

[BillB]

And if you're relying on DRMO, ANG/reserve sources for uniforms, you're missing a better source. Every April or May, JAFROTC at your local high school or AFROTC at an area University return surplus, used uniforms. CAP is eligible for these uniforms and it saves the ROTC the process of shipping them back if CAP requests them. JAFROTC also has the advantage in that their uniforms are often the smaller sizes. University AFROTC has the advantage of their having BDUs. Both also have female uniforms on a fairly regular basis.

[Hammer]

And if you're relying on DRMO, ANG/reserve sources for uniforms, you're missing a better source. Every April or May, JAFROTC at your local high school or AFROTC at an area University return surplus, used uniforms. CAP is eligible for these uniforms and it saves the ROTC the process of shipping them back if CAP requests them. JAFROTC also has the advantage in that their uniforms are often the smaller sizes. University AFROTC has the advantage of their having BDUs. Both also have female uniforms on a fairly regular basis.

How do you go about requesting these uniforms?

[BillB]

In most cases, a visit (in uniform) of the Squadron Commander or Logistics Officer to the Commander of the AFROTC or JAFROTC unit is all that's needed to request the surplus uniforms. Explaining that the surplus uniforms can be put to use by CAP justifies the transfer. National came out with a list of JAFROTC schools by State, to help units locate a school to get the surplus uniforms from.
By transferring the old uniforms to CAP, the JAFROTC and AFROTC units can order new uniforms from USAF Supply with less paperwork and return shipping to DRMO of the old uniforms. The fact they are "old" means they may have been worn 20-30 times or less. In fact I've picked up brand new shoes, service coats, windbreakers and blues in the past few years.

[SKYKING607]

Ahhhhhhhhh....to find my ol' tan "1505s" again. 

[iowacap]

I agree with wearing the long sleeves with the tie I think it just looks good but the only time I wear the long sleves if it is an event or something that requires to wear the service uniform. It looks really sharp like someone said to have that litte bit of cuff showing out the bottom doesnt matter if someone will notice or not but when throwing up that salute or shaking hands where the sleeves of the coat will come up then it is noticable and just looks better I think.