Pledge of Allegiance wearing CAP field uniform

[Capt Lawrence]

Would anyone like to give their opinion as to whether an officer in CAP field uniform should salute or place hand over heart during the Pledge of Allegiance.
Thanks.

[Hammer]

Would anyone like to give their opinion as to whether an officer in CAP field uniform should salute or place hand over heart during the Pledge of Allegiance.
Thanks.

Here's what I think:  Since the CAPBFU ISN'T a Military Uniform, you should place your hand over your heart.  That being said, yo only salute when saying the Pledge of Allegiance when you are out doors, or are under arms, both of which you will be wearing your hat.  Indoors, you just stasnd at attention.

[Fearlessleader01]

Saluting while saying the Pledge of Allegiance? I've never heard that before. My squadron stands attention indoors or out.

[MIKE]

Would anyone like to give their opinion as to whether an officer in CAP field uniform should salute or place hand over heart during the Pledge of Allegiance.

The CAP Field Uniform is not a military style uniform.

(3) Pledge of Allegiance. Honors to the flag during the
Pledge of Allegiance are similar to those rendered during the
playing of the National Anthem or "To the Colors."
(a) Military Formations or Ceremonies. You do not
recite the Pledge of Allegiance while in military formation.
(b) Outdoors. When in military-style uniform, you stand
at attention, face the flag, remain silent, and salute.
(c) Indoors. When in military-style uniform, stand at
attention, face the flag, but do not salute. You may recite the
pledge indoors.
(d) Civilian Dress. When in civilian clothes (indoors or
outdoors), you should stand at attention, face the flag, and recite
the Pledge of Allegiance while holding your right hand over
your heart. (Men should remove headdress and hold with right
hand over their heart.)

[Pace]

Here's what I think:  Since the CAPBFU ISN'T a Military Uniform, you should place your hand over your heart.  That being said, yo only salute when saying the Pledge of Allegiance when you are out doors, or are under arms, both of which you will be wearing your hat.  Indoors, you just stasnd at attention.

I agree.  Although CAPP 151 doesn't directly address the Pledge of Allegiance in non-military uniforms, it does for the National Anthem.  For the National Anthem, it says while in military style uniform (indoors) stand at attention and (outdoors) salute.  When in any other CAP uniforms (read: non-military), place your right hand over your heart. So...

For the Pledge, it says while in military style uniform (outdoors) salute and (indoors) stand at attention.  While in civilian attire, place your right hand over your heart.  In this context, it is perfectly reasonable to assume the spirit of the law is to place your right hand over your heart while in CAP corporate uniforms during the Pledge...inside and outdoors.

[shorning]

My squadron stands attention indoors or out.

You should be saluting outdoors.

[Al Sayre]

You salute outdoors when NOT IN MILITARY FORMATION.  When in formation, you will be given the order to PRESENT ARMS or EYES Right etc. when rendering honors to the flag.

[shorning]

When in formation, you will be given the order to PRESENT ARMS or EYES Right etc. when rendering honors to the flag.

Which is still known as saluting...

[Hammer]

When in formation, you will be given the order to PRESENT ARMS or EYES Right etc. when rendering honors to the flag.

Which is still known as saluting...

Dang, you beat me to it, sir.

[arajca]

Would anyone like to give their opinion as to whether an officer in CAP field uniform should salute or place hand over heart during the Pledge of Allegiance.
Thanks.

Here's what I think:  Since the CAPBFU ISN'T a Military Uniform, you should place your hand over your heart.  That being said, yo only salute when saying the Pledge of Allegiance when you are out doors, or are under arms, both of which you will be wearing your hat.  Indoors, you just stasnd at attention.

The CAP Field Uniform is not a military style uniform.

Quote from: CAPP 151
(3) Pledge of Allegiance. Honors to the flag during the
Pledge of Allegiance are similar to those rendered during the
playing of the National Anthem or "To the Colors."
(a) Military Formations or Ceremonies. You do not
recite the Pledge of Allegiance while in military formation.
(b) Outdoors. When in military-style uniform, you stand
at attention, face the flag, remain silent, and salute.
(c) Indoors. When in military-style uniform, stand at
attention, face the flag, but do not salute. You may recite the
pledge indoors.
(d) Civilian Dress. When in civilian clothes (indoors or
outdoors), you should stand at attention, face the flag, and recite
the Pledge of Allegiance while holding your right hand over
your heart. (Men should remove headdress and hold with right
hand over their heart.)

What about it isn't military style? The color? The pattern? The styling? The CAP insignia?

[md132]

When you are in AF-style uniform outdoors you salute, indoors you stand at attention.  When in a CAP distinctive uniform you will follow civilian customs.(placing right hand over your heart.)

[SarDragon]

What about it isn't military style? The color? The pattern? The styling? The CAP insignia?

Generally, in The Real Military ™, you only salute when wearing a hat. Since none of the corporate uniforms require a hat, and they are really treated as civilian clothes by the Air Force, I would say that "military style" applies to Real Military ™ uniforms, including the AF-style CAP uniforms. YMMV.

Frankly, I think we are beating a dead horse with regard to what constitutes a military uniform. Let's use a little common sense, and the guidance we have available from above to figure it out.

[Al Sayre]

When in formation, you will be given the order to PRESENT ARMS or EYES Right etc. when rendering honors to the flag.

Which is still known as saluting...

Yes, it is saluting, but not quite the same.  That's the reason it isn't addressed in the quoted materials, they pertain to individuals who aren't in formation under orders.  Military formations are covered in the drill and ceremonies manual. 

[shorning]

When in formation, you will be given the order to PRESENT ARMS or EYES Right etc. when rendering honors to the flag.

Which is still known as saluting...

Yes, it is saluting, but not quite the same.  That's the reason it isn't addressed in the quoted materials, they pertain to individuals who aren't in formation under orders.  Military formations are covered in the drill and ceremonies manual. 

The reason for the salute is the same.  So the mechanics behind it are different.  I didn't say anything about formation or not.  All I said is that if you outdoors you should salute.  True statement, no?

I'm not a very complicated person.  I try to keep things simple...

[Al Sayre]

Yes.  I was just trying to help clear the muddy water...

[SER Safety]

I keep reading about the Real Military,

In CAP eyes, I do not recall  any of our leaders saying we are the real or un-real military ( our ranks are CAP Ranks, just like the police, Military, fire department etc...) we are real

why are our CAP memebers so critical about our own Ranking, uniforms and customs.

We are part of something great...


Ernie Manzano, Major CAP
SER Safety

US Navy AWS-2 Active 6 years
US Air Force E-6 Reserve 15 Years

[Pylon]

I keep reading about the Real Military,

In CAP eyes, I do not recall  any of our leaders saying we are the real or un-real military ( our ranks are CAP Ranks, just like the police, Military, fire department etc...) we are real

why are our CAP memebers so critical about our own Ranking, uniforms and customs.

We are part of something great...


Ernie Manzano, Major CAP
SER Safety

US Navy AWS-2 Active 6 years
US Air Force E-6 Reserve 15 Years

Online in several CAP communities, people have used the term RealMilitary™ to simply refer to the US Armed Forces and/or the US Uniformed Services, of which CAP is not a part.

It doesn't mean that CAP's mission and duties are any less real or more pretend -- it's simply a term that's seen quite often.  In fact, that term is usually accompanied by that small "TM" trademark icon to further indicate that it's simply a humorous musing.

[SER Safety]

Got it now

This is a major concern for the retention of SM and cadets in 2006

how do we keep the good people in CAP.

[rebowman]

CAPP 151 does mention that the Pledge of Allegiance is not to be recited while in formation.

[afgeo4]

While the CAP corporate uniforms aren't military uniforms, they are military TYPE uniforms (blazer combo excluded).  Ever notice that police officers, firefighters and others in uniform salute each other, the colors and the national anthem?  It's for a reason.  The reason is called RESPECT.  I know, some of us are lazy and look for any out of raising their arm and having to keep there for a couple of minutes, but first and foremost, lets remember that wearing the CAP uniform, no matter what type, has to be professional in appearance and being at a public event, wearing say... the new corporate dress uniform and not saluting the national anthem... well... it wont win us any favors or respect from anyone.