Where are our priorities???

[groundpounder]

I have been following this and other CAP discussions for some time now. Every once and awhile I have asked for input from others regarding SAR training so we could share the things that really work and kill the things that don't.

As you all know, support from NHQ in the training area has gotten better, but it is still woefully inadequate. This has forced our members to spend hours reinventing the training wheel and missing out on some of the great presentations that others have already put together.

Earlier this week I posted a topic under ES asking for training input. So far - zilch.

On the other hand, every time a post comes up about a uniform change, a picture ID card or a new patch we get 60 replies discussing the mertis of the brown flight jacket or the fancy ES qualification patch. Are we really that shallow?? Is that our major concern; how we look???

[lordmonar]

Part of the problem is that you have to have experience in ES to properly evaluate if the training is adequate.  I have not experience in ES.  I can evaluate the training I have had only on the quality of the presentations but not its relevancy, accuracy and whether the training was on focus to the real world mission or not.

Another problem is the the ES missions seem to be changing a lot.  Today we are doing SAR, next week we are going to be doing DR, and later we will be doing HLS missions. 

[Major_Chuck]

Groundpounder.  I can feel your frustration.  My world (both CAP and 'civilian' is Safety and Emergency Response/Prepardness.  I can't speak with any authority on emergency services because I am not involved with it except where Safety crosses.

The uniform and badges though is the common thread amongst us.  Everyone wears a uniform, and the ID card/badge is common to us as well.

I don't think it is a matter of where our priorities lie but common interests.

[MIKE]

I've become quite disillusioned with ES of late.  I got to participate in actual missions quite frequently WIWAC... Enough for two non-distress Finds and a SAR ribbon... But lately it seems like it's a lot of training and expense in gear and time to get qualified for things I will likely never use.  It's hard to get motivated to train for that one time you might get spun up.

[groundpounder]

I've become quite disillusioned with ES of late.  I got to participate in actual missions quite frequently WIWAC... Enough for two non-distress Finds and a SAR ribbon... But lately it seems like it's a lot of training and expense in gear and time to get qualified for things I will likely never use.  It's hard to get motivated to train for that one time you might get spun up.

Your point is well taken, we aren't being tasked as much as we should. That being said, you have to either be in our out, not a little of both.

There is nothing worse that a half trained member on an actual mission who shows up with a 101 card listing qualification only to find that he can't find his ass with both hands.

Yes the real missions are few and far between, but when they do come, it too late to start training as some of our members think they can. Think of yourself being in the position of the wife and kids of a downed aviator who hang on to the hope that you are going to find Dad alive somewhere in the mountains of New Hampshire. That is why I joined CAP, not to squawk about which flight jacket that I can wear or how many ES patches can be plastered on to my BDU's.

Yes uniforms are common to us all and may create a higher volume of posts, but lets get real, how many different uniforms do we need, how often do we need to change them, and why do so many members get so upset because they don't have a picture on their ID card.

Yes the ID card issue has some merit, we need to be taken seriously and a good ID card helps, but what really helps is the ability to do the job first. The rest will follow.

We can cry all day that we don't get enough tasking but that day will never come if we are not ready to go before the fact. Nobody will take us seriously if we can't do the job right the first time.

Think about it......

[SKYKING607]

Years ago I was EXTREMELY active in SAR/DRE/SAREX.  After nearly 200 missions with numerous late-night ELT chases, I left CAP.  After an absence of 10 years I returned.  I too was "burned-out."  ("Bureaucracy?")

Now I have limited interests in ES.  I would like to return as a mission PAO if I return to ES at all.  Since I'm trained as an IC for my law enforcement job, I really do not want to do it in my off time.  Especially looking at the requirements that CAP has on paper for someone to "lateral" over.  Yikes!

I read all the chat about this badge, that ribbon, or whether a beret on my head matters.  It doesn't guys.  If I see a member with too many ornaments on his shirt, I am not impressed.  A golf shirt and some comfortable grey 'Dockers" and I'm a heppy camper.

After several regional disasters we've seen, the organization is finally coming to grips that what works in one state, is not being done in another.  We did not see an MOU with one State's Emergency Services agency with CAP when hurricane Katrina struck.  We gotta standardize our operations in every state folks!

Priorities:

Emergency Services

Standardize operations and working agreements in EVERY state.  Keep the MOU's current and upgrade/update as necessary.

Assure corporate resources (aircraft, vehicles, DF grear, commo., etc.) are available and in use and in a CONSTANT state of rediness.

Ask yourself....If a massive earthquake event strikes California, what can responding mutual aid resources from other wings do?  Are WE prepared?

Cadet Programs

Leadership training intensified with more hands-on experience.  Conference leading, public speaking, report writing, etc.  (Real-world preparation)

Hands-on experience for our Cadets using IT resources.  (Seek MOU's with local community colleges and universities).

More hands-on experiences at USAF installations during the summer months.  Reason a lot of Cadets join CAP is to be part of and learn about the USAF.  Why only a week-long encampment?  Why not more time spent living and being at an Air Force installation.

Cadets should have the opportunity to fly with the USAF more often?

Advertise the Cadet Program through mailings to middle school and high school counselors.

Aerospace Education

Include actual flight instruction.  Funding should be sought by seeking corporate involvement.  I'd love to send my Cadet to the "Boeing Flying Academy" if there was such a thing!  Solo flight scholarships?   Private pilot flight scholarships?

More advertising on the AE program through mailings to various school districts, teacher education centers at universities, etc.

Okay...okay....I'll get off my soap box now fellas!

[dwb]

I'll come right out and say it...

I just don't care about Emergency Services.  Yeah, I know, I should be a well-rounded CAP member and at least have an opinion on it, but I really don't care.  I tried to care, but that didn't really work.

I've come to the conclusion that, at least for now, I'm a cadet programs guy, and that's that.  Maybe 10 years from now I'll be a 1337 SAR hax0r, but I'm not now.

So that's why I don't post in the ES forum.  Considering the number of people that migrated here from CadetStuff, I'm not surprised that ES does not dominate the discussion.  Over time, as this board evolves and forms its own unique audience, maybe you'll see that change.

[groundpounder]

I'll come right out and say it...

I just don't care about Emergency Services. 

Not a problem, I don't care about AE. I didn't join CAP to pass out paper airplanes at the air show.

I am mostly ES but I support the Cadet program because I see it as a leadership program that benefits the whole community. I like to see the Cadets involved in ES because it teaches them to be good citizens, not just takers like so many people in our society today.

I would rather see someone like yourself concentrate on one part of the program and do a good job rather than serve too many masters and do a so so job at everything. Thats the problem with the "you have to support all three missions" folks that we have, in reality it just don't work that way.

Sit at a Group meeting sometime and watch the ES guys eyes glaze over when the Safety Officer starts talking about Halloween safety or the Cadet Programs Officer talks about testing for 45 mins. You can't make people be interested in something that they are not interested in.

[Matt]

[...] 

[...]Thats the problem with the "you have to support all three missions" folks that we have, in reality it just don't work that way. [...]

I think I may be taking too much of a conserved view on it... but perhaps when people say that you have to support all three missions we don't necessarily have to be directly involved.  As long as we're remotely knowledgable in all three areas, we're doing our job.  Perhaps, even knowing about the program, and admitting that, yes it is there, and yes it is important to the organization is compliance.  To simply say that we must master all three missions is almost asinine.  It defeats SPECIALTIES.

[Major_Chuck]

I actually feel we have too many uniform combinations.  If we are to have multiple uniforms then there needs to be some wear guidance.  "Wear this uniform for this occassion only...type of thing. 

I also feel we try to be all things to all people.  Small units with many missions is detrimental at times.  In that sense I think we do need to set our priorities.  Are we a ES Squadron and within that scope are we Disaster Relief, Ground or Air Search?

I advised a new unit commander about two years ago to scale back her goals.  She told me about all these things she wanted to do for her cadets.  Okay, that's great but you've only got four seniors and 9 cadets.  You are a flight.  What realistically do you want to do?  I asked her.

The cadets wanted to do emergency services (ground search) in conjuction with their Cadet Program requirements.    Last time I checked she had her squadron built to about fifteen seniors and fifteen cadets and they had the people and resources to expand into other things.

[pixelwonk]

[...] 

[...]Thats the problem with the "you have to support all three missions" folks that we have, in reality it just don't work that way. [...]

I think I may be taking too much of a conserved view on it... but perhaps when people say that you have to support all three missions we don't necessarily have to be directly involved.  As long as we're remotely knowledgable in all three areas, we're doing our job.  Perhaps, even knowing about the program, and admitting that, yes it is there, and yes it is important to the organization is compliance.  To simply say that we must master all three missions is almost asinine.  It defeats SPECIALTIES.

Exactly...
Nobody should be discouraged if they want to focus on a particular mission only.  I wouldn't turn away a great ES officer because they didn't like AE too much, or vice versa.  We're keeping with the "spirit" of supporting three missions by ensuring that the unit as a whole can support the three missions of CAP adequately.  I've been on the "giving end" of enough SUIs to know that even the marginally graded ones may still have great people doing outstanding things in certain areas.  The challenge of the CC and DCoS is to ensure that the squadron is a vable unit and that the best efforts are made to staff the needed roles.

[Viper]

I'll come right out and say it...

I just don't care about Emergency Services.  Yeah, I know, I should be a well-rounded CAP member and at least have an opinion on it, but I really don't care.  I tried to care, but that didn't really work.

I'm the same way.  On e-Services, I sent a request for my GTM Rating three times, only to have my Squadron Commander rerject it because " didn't go to the Middle East Region's SAREX"  All we do at my Sq is ES [poop]  I hate it.  The Sq Aerospace Education Officer got removed from his position when he tryed to get the Sq a ride on a C-130.  The Sq/CC said that we are an ES Sq and there will be ABSOLUTELY NO Aerospace Education.  But then again he washed-out of the Air Force's Polit Training Program, only to get the boot from the Air Force twelve years later as a First Lieutenant.  Me, personnally I joined CAP to fly, and in the two years I've been a member, haven't had an Orientation Flight, let alone touch a CAP Aircraft.  Eh, I can't wait to get my Commission into the U.S. Air Force anyway.

[Al Sayre]

How do you meet the aerospace requirements for cadet advancement?

[Viper]

How do you meet the aerospace requirements for cadet advancement?

Read the book, and take the test.  Or that's what the Sq/CC does.  And, if he likes you--he hates my guts, he won't even make you test for promotion.  That's howhis son is a C/SMSgt so quickly,.  I am not just running my mouth, I DO have proof to these claims.

[Westernslope]

.

[Viper]

We sometimes get really good senior leadership and sometimes we get, well to put in nicely, those who are more bully than leader.  I have found that it goes in cycles. Lack of retention will generally result in lack of recruitment. Once recruitment drops off, the commander is replaced and someone else has to rebuild the squadron.

After four IG Investigations, he got promoted to Group Commander.  The current Sq/CC has no clue as to what's what..  He is in the Air Force, a Tech Sergent after twenty five years and three career fields.  He's a CAP 2d Lt.  He told a girl that she couldn't join CAP because her boy friend was a Flight Commander.  Two IG Investigations later he's still the Sq/CC.  He made his son a C/SMSgt, and a Flt/CC, and he can't even do an Open-Ranks-Inspection.

My advice is to see if you can find another squadron near you.  CAP offers a great experience in most squadrons but when you find a bad squadron, it can be more frustrating than rewarding.

Thanks, sir.  I'll probably do that.  I must say, I went to WVWG's encampment last year and was amazed.  It was very well organized, and they knew what they were doing.  It sure beat anything that **WG has to offer, sir.

[Becks]

After four IG Investigations, he got promoted to Group Commander.  The current Sq/CC has no clue as to what's what..  He is in the Air Force, a Tech Sergent after twenty five years and three career fields.  He's a CAP 2d Lt.  He told a girl that she couldn't join CAP because her boy friend was a Flight Commander.  Two IG Investigations later he's still the Sq/CC.  He made his son a C/SMSgt, and a Flt/CC, and he can't even do an Open-Ranks-Inspection.

Wow...yeah all I can reccomend is to get out of there, shop around for a new Sdqn.  Its a shame that people like that get put into positions of authority and are charged with representing CAP in a major way, gives us all a bad name.

[Viper]

After four IG Investigations, he got promoted to Group Commander.  The current Sq/CC has no clue as to what's what..  He is in the Air Force, a Tech Sergent after twenty five years and three career fields.  He's a CAP 2d Lt.  He told a girl that she couldn't join CAP because her boy friend was a Flight Commander.  Two IG Investigations later he's still the Sq/CC.  He made his son a C/SMSgt, and a Flt/CC, and he can't even do an Open-Ranks-Inspection.

Wow...yeah all I can reccomend is to get out of there, shop around for a new Sdqn.  Its a shame that people like that get put into positions of authority and are charged with representing CAP in a major way, gives us all a bad name.

Yeah, I know.  And to think that the ex-AEO was in SAF/IG when CAP was in deep [poop] in the late '90s.  eh...