Triple Stack

[PHall]

I was under the impression that you could not wear both CAP and RM aeronautical badges.  I looked through 39-1 and wasnt able to find it but I remember from somewhere thinking that once I got some CAP wings my Army ones would by regulation have to come off.  Am I just making it up or am I just to dumb to find it?

You can wear your military and CAP wings at the same time, but you have to wear the CAP wings above your military wings.

CAPM 39-1, Table 6-2, Item 5.

[AlphaSigOU]

Only on AF-style uniforms, not any of the corporate combinations.

[Duke Dillio]

So what do I tell the guy wearing his EMT badge plus his GTM badge?

I did find where it says you can wear Airborne wings and an Air Assault badge at the same time because the Airborne wings are considered an aeronautical rating in the Air Force regs...

I think the coolest one I have seen to date was a chaplain who was also a ground team leader.

[MIKE]

So what do I tell the guy wearing his EMT badge plus his GTM badge?

Has to remove one of 'em.

I think the coolest one I have seen to date was a chaplain who was also a ground team leader.

I think that's sinful, see above.

[Gunner C]

So what do I tell the guy wearing his EMT badge plus his GTM badge?

Has to remove one of 'em.

I think the coolest one I have seen to date was a chaplain who was also a ground team leader.

I think that's sinful, see above.

Yep - pretty sinful.  Chaplains are chaplains, not GTLs, commanders, etc.  They need to stay in their lanes.  They don't lead, they advise and give counsel.  Since they're part and parcel of the Air Force Chaplains Service, they need to follow the rules.

Gunner

[Stonewall]

I disagree, with respect of course 

There is a chaplain in DCWG, at my former squadron, who was not only GTL qualified, but also a Command Pilot in CAP.  Up until a few years ago, he was an Army Reserve Chaplain (Lt Col) with service in Desert Storm among other smaller operations.  He had a love of aviation and is a long time CAP member.  He was very active in CAP operations and never turned down an opportunity to bring faith to the field.

I invited him to every FTX I ran and most of the time he would show up Sunday morning and offer non-denominational services to the cadets...they loved having a "Field Chaplain".



WIWAC in FLWG, we had Chaplain (Captain) Kidd from 20th Special Forces Group out of Camp Blanding as a member of our squadron.  I loved seeing his chaplain's insignia above his Master Jump wings...but he didn't do anything in ES as far as I know.

[Eclipse]

Yep - pretty sinful.  Chaplains are chaplains, not GTLs, commanders, etc.  They need to stay in their lanes.  They don't lead, they advise and give counsel.  Since they're part and parcel of the Air Force Chaplains Service, they need to follow the rules.

Um, what?

True, in their role as a Chaplain.  So that means they don't get to do anything else in CAP but something directly tied to their religion?

Now, the triplestack is verboten, but that doesn't mean we don't need the help in the field, or mission base, or aircrew, whatever.  Unlike a combatant service, there shouldn't be a single task in CAP that a member of a religious order, etc., ca't perform, even Commander.

I know a number of Chaplain members who aren't CAP Chaplains, or involved in the CAP/USAF Chaplain program because they joined for something different than their day job (just like we get CPA's who don't want to be FM's).

[JayT]

So what do I tell the guy wearing his EMT badge plus his GTM badge?

Has to remove one of 'em.

I think the coolest one I have seen to date was a chaplain who was also a ground team leader.

I think that's sinful, see above.

Yep - pretty sinful.  Chaplains are chaplains, not GTLs, commanders, etc.  They need to stay in their lanes.  They don't lead, they advise and give counsel.  Since they're part and parcel of the Air Force Chaplains Service, they need to follow the rules.

Gunner

I think we all need a lesson in the implications of the word 'sinful' in reference to members of the clergy.........

[DogCollar]

So what do I tell the guy wearing his EMT badge plus his GTM badge?

Has to remove one of 'em.

I think the coolest one I have seen to date was a chaplain who was also a ground team leader.

I think that's sinful, see above.

Yep - pretty sinful.  Chaplains are chaplains, not GTLs, commanders, etc.  They need to stay in their lanes.  They don't lead, they advise and give counsel.  Since they're part and parcel of the Air Force Chaplains Service, they need to follow the rules.

Gunner

With all due respect, once again, there is a complete misunderstanding about CAP Chaplaincy.  There are only two things in CAP that a CAP Chaplain cannot be a part of...(1) Command...(2) Testing Officer. 

In another thread awhile back, it was suggested that unless Chaplains become rated in something like GTM or GTL then they shouldn't be allowed to give counsel or advice in ES operations.  Now, we have a request for Chaplains to stay in the narrow lane of Chaplaincy!  This is a situation where you are Darned if you do and Darned if you don't! 

[Eclipse]

With all due respect, once again, there is a complete misunderstanding about CAP Chaplaincy.  There are only two things in CAP that a CAP Chaplain cannot be a part of...(1) Command...(2) Testing Officer. 

And for the sake of clarity, but risking redundancy, that's only if they are CAP Chaplains serving in that role. 

A Chaplain, not part of the CAP Chaplain program, has none of those limitations. 

I do fall on the side of the argument that if they are not trained to at least CAP standards, they should not be in the field for ES, anymore than anyone else not trained and qual'ed belongs out there.

[DogCollar]

With all due respect, once again, there is a complete misunderstanding about CAP Chaplaincy.  There are only two things in CAP that a CAP Chaplain cannot be a part of...(1) Command...(2) Testing Officer. 

And for the sake of clarity, but risking redundancy, that's only if they are CAP Chaplains serving in that role. 

A Chaplain, not part of the CAP Chaplain program, has none of those limitations. 

I do fall on the side of the argument that if they are not trained to at least CAP standards, they should not be in the field for ES, anymore than anyone else not trained and qual'ed belongs out there.

No arguments concerning training!  And you are correct.  There are clergy who join CAP who do not wish to have anything to do with CAP Chaplaincy!  They are free to serve any role they are qualified for.  That being said, just because they are clergy DOES NOT automatically make them qualified to be a CAP Chaplain.

[MIKE]

Guys, topic... My sinful comment was simply stating the fact that two specialty insignia are not authorized.  Had one been an aviation badge it would be a different story.

[DogCollar]

Guys, topic... My sinful comment was simply stating the fact that two specialty insignia are not authorized.  Had one been an aviation badge it would be a different story.

Thank you for the clarification.  I appreciate it.

[Hawk200]

You see people in CAP all the time wearing triple stacks. You also see them mixing blue/white, white/OD, black/OD, navy blue/OD. I care less about how or what you wear as long as you've earned it.

Because that's a great attitude and all.............

I don't care how you fly a plane as long as I get out of the hospital in a week or less.

CAPM 39-1 allows the mixing of subdued and bright color on the uniform.  Some people don't like mixing subdued and bright, but it is permitted in a legitimate CAP publication.

[JayT]

I have no problem with mixing and matching, but to make a blanket statement of "I could care less how or what you' wear is bit off.

[PHall]

You see people in CAP all the time wearing triple stacks. You also see them mixing blue/white, white/OD, black/OD, navy blue/OD. I care less about how or what you wear as long as you've earned it.

Because that's a great attitude and all.............

I don't care how you fly a plane as long as I get out of the hospital in a week or less.

CAPM 39-1 allows the mixing of subdued and bright color on the uniform.  Some people don't like mixing subdued and bright, but it is permitted in a legitimate CAP publication.

Yeah, it's permitted, but it looks like crap!  
And there are a few places out there that make military insignia in white on blue so you don't have to mix if you don't want too.

[brasda91]

True, in their role as a Chaplain.  So that means they don't get to do anything else in CAP but something directly tied to their religion?

..there shouldn't be a single task in CAP that a member of a religious order, etc., can't perform..

I just had a conversation about this with my Chaplain and soon to be Character Development Officer.  I hope all of my staff chooses to participate in every aspect of the program.  In my squadron, we all help each other.  I don't have 50 senior members to have every position filled, so we all do a little bit of everything.  If that means my Chaplain and CDI want to do GT training and work towards GTM1, so be it.  I wouldn't even care if they worked for GTL.

[brasda91]

...in the Air Force regs...

Well, since we're in CAP, why don't we just follow the CAP reg's?    I'm not in the AF, so those reg's do not pertain to me.  CAP didn't go to all the trouble to produce our own set of reg's just so members could disregard them and follow the AF reg's.

[Hawk200]

Yeah, it's permitted, but it looks like crap!  

A matter of opinion. However, it is still allowed by official publication. When we tell people not to do things because we don't like it, even when it's authorized, then our system breaks down. Opinions have no place when it comes to enforcement of regulatory publications.

And there are a few places out there that make military insignia in white on blue so you don't have to mix if you don't want too.

Personally, I don't mix, the two badges I have are military. I wear them both in subdued colors. Compared to others in CAP, at a distance it doesn't look like I have any. I choose to wear what is readily available, and that is subdued. I really have no reason, or desire, to have custom badges made. If there is a time when CAP says military badges are only permitted in bright colors, I'll make a decision between having them custom made, or just not wearing any

Well, since we're in CAP, why don't we just follow the CAP reg's?    I'm not in the AF, so those reg's do not pertain to me.  CAP didn't go to all the trouble to produce our own set of reg's just so members could disregard them and follow the AF reg's.

On that issue, I follow CAP regs. If CAP pubs don't address an issue, I'll consider AF regs as a guideline, but not as regulatory. At present, I don't have any examples, as CAP directive has, at present, covered any issues I have dealt with.

I have no problem with mixing and matching, but to make a blanket statement of "I could care less how or what you' wear is bit off.

The statement taken at face value isn't off at all. The only stipulation the person put forth was that you be legitimately authorized the badge in the first place. They didn't care if you mixed and matched. To many here, your reply may have seemed a bit off.  Mixing and matching badges you've earned isn't the least bit off, but "I don't care how you fly a plane as long as I get out of the hospital in a week or less" wasn't even a relevant circumstance.

[SaBeR33]

So what do I tell the guy wearing his EMT badge plus his GTM badge?

I did find where it says you can wear Airborne wings and an Air Assault badge at the same time because the Airborne wings are considered an aeronautical rating in the Air Force regs...

I think the coolest one I have seen to date was a chaplain who was also a ground team leader.

Not a CAP example but one that's even better than that is there are two Special Forces qualified chaplains at Fort Meade, MD, one of whom was in Delta Force who participated in the events in Mogadishu, Somalia portrayed in the book and movie entitled Blackhawk Down. One of the Rangers who participated in said operation and Operation Urgent Fury (1984 invasion of Panama) is also a chaplain. How many chaplains do you know of who are authorized to wear CIBs, the very latter with a star? Crazy stuff. A friend who is a fellow CAP member, who is now a ANG/CAP chaplain, knows or has met all three of them.