SM NCOs

[DNall]

Using a system dif than the mil standard would be confusing to outsiders (as our current FO system is). Making officer grade discretionary to position would give the appearance of correctness, but it wouldn't actually change anything. You still have all the same problems, just new labels.

What we need is actual officers and NCOs. Don't worry about the grade for a minute. We need people within the structure at each echelon that are competent to act in those roles. We don't have that now & it screws us continuously.

I have the greatest respect for skilled NCOs. As an officer I couldn't really do what they do & vice versa. You can't convert back & forth between the philosophies to fill a position for a length of time. You have to select qualified intelligent people with potential, and you have to develop them thru systematic guided training over the course of a career to fill those roles. That's equally true on both the NCO & officer sides, and the development for each is different. Creating a skilled SNCO or officer is a work of art, and each of them is a different kind of art. They have to be pursued separately, and you have to put high quality raw material in at the foundation & be increasingly selective as you move up.

That's how the military works. That's how any civilian corporation works. That's how life works. Why we're over here trying to let everyone be a LtCol if they hang around long enough & screwing our org for it I have no idea. We already give ribbons & certificates out to make people feel good about themselves. We don't need to do it with grade too.

[davedove]

^DNall, that's agreat idea and I support it, but there is still one situation it doesn't cover.  What about the individual who has been very dedicated to CAP and worked at the higher levels, earning his grade, and then moves back down in the organization?  This can happen for any number of reasons:  their real job demands more time, their family situation changes, whatever.

This can happen at any time in CAP, but doesn't happen in the military (due to up or out).  In CAP, you have this great individual, with all kinds of experience, that still wants to serve but can't at the higher levels.  Currently, he moves back to his local squadron, keeping his higher grade, and may be commanded by lower grades.

That one way that CAP is different than the military and most jobs.  We have a fluid up and down movement of people.

[citizensoldier]

I tend to agree with the sentiment about not needing an army of LTCs roaming around.  I don't need the validation of a lot of bling to tell me I do my job well or not.  While a fair number of CAP seniors are veterans, not all are.  Those who are may be able to see the advantage of a strong NCO presence.  Hopefully the NCO track will evolve again over time.  It would make the organization appeal to many of my Army associates who look at the rank structure and shake their heads.

CS

[cnitas]

^DNall, that's agreat idea and I support it, but there is still one situation it doesn't cover.  What about the individual who has been very dedicated to CAP and worked at the higher levels, earning his grade, and then moves back down in the organization?  This can happen for any number of reasons:  their real job demands more time, their family situation changes, whatever.

This can happen at any time in CAP, but doesn't happen in the military (due to up or out).  In CAP, you have this great individual, with all kinds of experience, that still wants to serve but can't at the higher levels.  Currently, he moves back to his local squadron, keeping his higher grade, and may be commanded by lower grades.

That one way that CAP is different than the military and most jobs.  We have a fluid up and down movement of people.

Instead of using the WO model, use the enlisted model to recognize PD.
If you are selected for 'Officership', you would participate in the 'new' officer PD program. 

If at a later point, you move down the ladder,  you would resign your rank and move back to the enlisted ranks at the appropriate PD level.

[davedove]

Instead of using the WO model, use the enlisted model to recognize PD.
If you are selected for 'Officership', you would participate in the 'new' officer PD program. 

If at a later point, you move down the ladder,  you would resign your rank and move back to the enlisted ranks at the appropriate PD level.

So, the enlisted grades would be similar to what we have now where grade is a measure of your PD advancement.

Officer grade would then be positional, so that you only hold the grade if you hold the position.

[MIKE]

Here we go again!  I think the original question has been answered as good as it's gonna be.