Interim Field & Utility Uniforms

[MIKE]

This poll is for those members who would otherwise wear the woodland camouflaged Battle Dress Uniform, but have or will have purchased either the Field Uniform or Utility Uniform to replace their BDUs as a temporary measure.  If you wear either CAP distinctive uniform for other reasons, please do not vote in this poll. 

[RiverAux]

I'm confused by what you mean by "interim" uniform.

[MIKE]

I'm confused by what you mean by "interim" uniform.

Assuming the BDU is phased out in the near future for either the ABU or some other option... What will you be wearing in the interim?

[DC]

I will cling to BDUs until the last possible moment that they are serviceable, then will likely go to BBDUs praying for the ABU everyday. But, assuming that ABUs will be authorized within the next 2-3 years I should be okay, just bought some new BDUs....

[SSgt Rudin]

I bought BBDU's because of two reasons

1. SM's not being permitted to wear AF Style uniforms for fund raising, most of my squadron's fund raising is parking details where we normally wear BDU's.
2. ABU's

I have also been telling my new SM's to just buy the blue ones since they can wear them to every activity.

I personally will not be buying anymore BDU's, my next replacement set will be BBDU's.

Most of my cadets were like "eww blue bdu's" but they changed their mind when they saw someone who isn't fuzzy wearing them. I just wish I could find higher quality ones.

[Eclipse]

I bought BBDU's because of two reasons

1. SM's not being permitted to wear AF Style uniforms for fund raising, most of my squadron's fund raising is parking details where we normally wear BDU's.

Thread drift already, sorry.

Parking cars, or any other activity where the hosting organization may provide a donation to the unit providing support is not the same as "fund raising".

The fund raising referred to would be situations where it makes it appear that the USAF is directly soliciting donations or selling a product.

Calling any of our uniforms "interim" before any change is made is a bad idea.

[SSgt Rudin]

I bought BBDU's because of two reasons

1. SM's not being permitted to wear AF Style uniforms for fund raising, most of my squadron's fund raising is parking details where we normally wear BDU's.

Thread drift already, sorry.

Parking cars, or any other activity where the hosting organization may provide a donation to the unit providing support is not the same as "fund raising".

The fund raising referred to would be situations where it makes it appear that the USAF is directly soliciting donations or selling a product.

Calling any of our uniforms "interim" before any change is made is a bad idea.

this has already been discussed, I posted what NHQ defines as a fund raiser, from the KB. If you want to discuss it further here is the post http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=5053.0
(/drift)

[MIKE]

Calling any of our uniforms "interim" before any change is made is a bad idea.

I don't think so... I've seen those threads about BDU component availability. 

[Eclipse]

Calling any of our uniforms "interim" before any change is made is a bad idea.

I don't think so... I've seen those threads about BDU component availability. 

There are no shortages from retail sources, surplus, and other secondary markets. My units are swimming in BDU's thanks to the change in active services.

[afgeo4]

Calling any of our uniforms "interim" before any change is made is a bad idea.

I don't think so... I've seen those threads about BDU component availability. 

There are no shortages from retail sources, surplus, and other secondary markets. My units are swimming in BDU's thanks to the change in active services.

There are no shortages for YOU. I can't easily get any in NYC. All MCSS shops don't have them and our local Army/Navy stores sell things that cannot be properly worn (wrong cuts, wrong colors, etc)

[Eclipse]

My apologies, I forgot how difficult things can be for small hamlets like New York City.   

[RiverAux]

Not having been given any sort of uniform by CAP since I was a cadet 20 odd years ago, I'm not going to base my uniform buying decisions on whether or not there might be a free pair laying around somewhere.  I've bought every set of BDUs I've ever worn and fully expect that trend to continue no matter what the uniform style is for seniors.

Now, I expect my current pair of lightweight BDUs won't last much longer and I'll probably go ahead and buy a new set of BDUs when those are gone.  Even if CAP switches and I get ABUs relatively soon, the BDU pants are always useful for other outdoor activities.  The shirt won't be useful for much I do, but so what, its only 25-30 bucks. 

[PHall]

My apologies, I forgot how difficult things can be for small hamlets like New York City.   

We're not exactly swimming in them out here in L A either.

Eclipse, you got lucky, enjoy it while you can.

[Eclipse]

bdu.com doesn't deliver to LA or NY?

[FlyingTerp]

I'm not a big fan of BBDUs, but I did buy a new utility uniform to keep in my car for emergencies.

My unit has plenty of BDUs.  In fact, while I was at Langley AFB last week I saw a few shelves of them in Military Clothing Sales.  I don't think its an issue of availability, it more of how long can I actually wear this uniform post 2011?

[Pylon]

My apologies, I forgot how difficult things can be for small hamlets like New York City.   

Your blatant sarcasm for situations which you haven't experienced aside, the market is changing.  AAFES used to provide our new cadets with a BDU cap for under $4 with no shipping.  Within the past few months, AAFES has stopped carrying them - even for internet and phone sales.  Now, the cheapest ones out there are $9 each (priced via Vanguard, Hock, and third-party vendors)  plus shipping , which is usually a minimum of $4 or $5 extra.  Big difference in cost.

Your comment about BDU.com is not what we're discussing.  Of course BDU's will always be available from some commercial source, just like random urban camo patterns - though not in use by the military - will always be available from a commercial source.  The prices, however, are going up quickly and our traditional sources of low-cost items (surplus, AAFES/MCSS) have dried up for many.

[mikeylikey]

^ Not to mention DRMO and DLA have stopped letting ANYONE in the United States draw BDU uniform componenets, they are shipping them all overseas.  So that well has completely dried up.

Looking at AAFES on line, the only BDU items they have listed under Army or AF uniforms are ends and pieces.  No complete sets are being stocked.

It will get even more difficult to outfit anyone in a cheap pair of BDU's within 1 year.  And that is no joke. 

If you can get them now, I highly reccomend doing so.   

[Eclipse]

I don't disagree that BDU's will gradually become more difficult to aquire, that's common sense when one of the biggest users changes colors, but this "OMG what are we going to do today?!?" is silly.

The way CAP members use / wear uniforms, anything bought in the last few years will still be more than serviceable well beyond any assumed sundown of the BDU (for CAP).

AAFES / MCSS has never been the primary uniform source for CAP members, especially for common items like BDU's (usually its a service coat or similiar before people start reaching there), so whether they have them or not is a symptom of the issue, but not likely visible to most members. 

CAPMart/Vanguard/The Hock has always been the primary purchase point.  If VG, CAP's official uniform supplier, is unable to ship BDU's, then that is a great argument for "other", whether that's the ABU, Blue Field Uniform, or something unique to CAP.  As of writing this, VG still has BDU's for sale, and there's been no public indication of that changing before CAP does.

Beyond that, anyone with internet access and a credit card can find tons of the uniform.  Using a patrol CAP as the argument about cost is not exactly cricket - first, as I say, most people have never shopped at AAFES, so a $4 hat is a "never was" for most members, and shipping a single hat is going to be expensive compared to a full uniform, that's how it works.

[mikeylikey]

^ First, AAFES/MCSS is the primary source for the uniform for Cadets (blues, right).  Second, Vanguard, Hock, etc.....still need supplied by manufacturers, who will slowly stop manufacturing military spec BDU's.  Do you want knockoffs, that are manufactured in China, or American made uniforms produced to high quality standards??

Finally, the BDU cover argument is good.  When AAFES stops selling them at $4.00, other less reputable suppliers will up their prices HUGELY.  It is already happening.

I also have to ask, how can HOCK shop still be producing and selling CAP merchandise?  I thought they got a C&D letter?  Plus their quality is suffering lately! 

[0]

I don't disagree that BDU's will gradually become more difficult to aquire, that's common sense when one of the biggest users changes colors, but this "OMG what are we going to do today?!?" is silly.

The way CAP members use / wear uniforms, anything bought in the last few years will still be more than serviceable well beyond any assumed sundown of the BDU (for CAP).

AAFES / MCSS has never been the primary uniform source for CAP members, especially for common items like BDU's (usually its a service coat or similiar before people start reaching there), so whether they have them or not is a symptom of the issue, but not likely visible to most members. 

CAPMart/Vanguard/The Hock has always been the primary purchase point.  If VG, CAP's official uniform supplier, is unable to ship BDU's, then that is a great argument for "other", whether that's the ABU, Blue Field Uniform, or something unique to CAP.  As of writing this, VG still has BDU's for sale, and there's been no public indication of that changing before CAP does.

Beyond that, anyone with internet access and a credit card can find tons of the uniform.  Using a patrol CAP as the argument about cost is not exactly cricket - first, as I say, most people have never shopped at AAFES, so a $4 hat is a "never was" for most members, and shipping a single hat is going to be expensive compared to a full uniform, that's how it works.

I can see part of your arguement but there are some arguements I'd like to make against those points I dissagree with what you said.

As to they way members wear their uniforms still being serviceable this doesn't count for everyone.  Depending on the activity level of the member and their unit their uniforms may not last as long.  If you're out in the field either on missions or doing camping activities depending on how rough you are the uniform may not last as long.  

CAPMart/etc being the primary purchase point their suppliers may start to cut down the production on the woodland camo pattern.  I'm not saying stop producing it but they may not make as many because the demand will drop.  I say this because you have a lot of "wannabes" who try and dress like they're in the military when they're not (or even part of their Auxillary like we are) but they do it because it looks cool.  So these companies will probably start to produce a pattern similar to the new geneartion uniforms now being issued.

As far as anyone with a Credit Card being able to get them on line not everyone has a credit card.  There are some adults who chose not to have one because of fees and finance charges etc.  How should someone like that get their uniforms?  

[Eclipse]

^ First, AAFES/MCSS is the primary source for the uniform for Cadets (blues, right). 

True, but we're not talking about any issues with cadet service dress...

I also have to ask, how can HOCK shop still be producing and selling CAP merchandise?  I thought they got a C&D letter?  Plus their quality is suffering lately! 

If you ever find the real answer, a lot of us would be curious.  People tell me he has a wall papered with C&D's.

[Eclipse]

As to they way members wear their uniforms still being serviceable this doesn't count for everyone. Depending on the activity level of the member and their unit their uniforms may not last as long.  If you're out in the field either on missions or doing camping activities depending on how rough you are the uniform may not last as long.

I'm speaking to the majority situation here.  Sure uniforms get damaged, etc., but the majority of members wear them once a week, for a few hours, and maybe a few times a year for a bivouac, encampment, etc., hardly "normal wear" for a garment designed for battle environments.

As far as anyone with a Credit Card being able to get them on line not everyone has a credit card.  There are some adults who chose not to have one because of fees and finance charges etc.  How should someone like that get their uniforms? 

CAP, nor any other organization, can accommodate people who are outside the mainstream or have self-imposed issues like no credit cards, obviously you have to find a way to help them, but you don't formulate uniform policies and procdures based on a few people.

[0]

As to they way members wear their uniforms still being serviceable this doesn't count for everyone. Depending on the activity level of the member and their unit their uniforms may not last as long.  If you're out in the field either on missions or doing camping activities depending on how rough you are the uniform may not last as long.

I'm speaking to the majority situation here.  Sure uniforms get damaged, etc., but the majority of members wear them once a week, for a few hours, and maybe a few times a year for a bivouac, encampment, etc., hardly "normal wear" for a garment designed for battle environments.

Well here in could be a problem.  Some of the suppliers that our members go to may not have BDU's that are built to MilSpec and if that's the case all they're buying is just cloth with a woodland pattern that won't last through even a SAREX if you have to go into the woods.  So should we tell people "I know it's cheaper there but you have to go to this place to get your uniforms."?

[Eclipse]

As to they way members wear their uniforms still being serviceable this doesn't count for everyone. Depending on the activity level of the member and their unit their uniforms may not last as long.  If you're out in the field either on missions or doing camping activities depending on how rough you are the uniform may not last as long.

I'm speaking to the majority situation here.  Sure uniforms get damaged, etc., but the majority of members wear them once a week, for a few hours, and maybe a few times a year for a bivouac, encampment, etc., hardly "normal wear" for a garment designed for battle environments.

Well here in could be a problem.  Some of the suppliers that our members go to may not have BDU's that are built to MilSpec and if that's the case all they're buying is just cloth with a woodland pattern that won't last through even a SAREX if you have to go into the woods.  So should we tell people "I know it's cheaper there but you have to go to this place to get your uniforms."?

Yes, or don't complain when the color/fit/wear is not correct.  We do that today with a lot of parts and items.
You can't just wear any old pants / shirt that is close in color, etc.  I believe someone at some point dug up
a reg or citation that required our uniforms have the proper mil-spec labels, etc. (though I would never go that far with CAP members who have something which is passable and they are happy with - i.e. the large number of BDU's that showed up around here with labels in Arabic and epaulets.  Destitch the epaulets and you can't tell the difference).

[mikeylikey]

- i.e. the large number of BDU's that showed up around here with labels in Arabic and epaulets.  Destitch the epaulets and you can't tell the difference).

Thats "Un-American".  I bet they were USA made BDU's we gave to another country years ago, and they gave them right back.  Things like that make me MAD.