Uniform Atrocities

[MSgt Van]

So what your saying is that if I DON"T stow my cap in my pocket when it's not on my head I'm violating the reg? You've got to be kidding me.

[davidsinn]

CAPM 39-1 Table 2-3 Item 6

Headgear (BDU Cap) Worn squarely on head with no hair protruding in front of the cap.
When not being worn, is stowed in either of the lower cargo pockets on
the trousers.

Looks like that's the case Sergeant.

[jimmydeanno]

That statement just seems like one of those things to stop people from tucking them in the sleeve roll or in the back of their pants. 

I've never put my hat in the cargo pocket, I carry it in my hand or place it on the table when I sit down.  Methinks if someone tried to take my hat because it was on the table, someone might regret that decision.

[dwb]

BTW, as MIKE alluded to, we used to run this kind of thread over on the CadetStuff.org forums.

It started out with the best of intentions, but quickly deteriorated into a "what an idiot that guy is" type of thread.  It was not constructive, and brought us on the site staff a lot of grief.

For us, it was not that we wanted to poke fun at individual members, it's that we wanted to call attention to the fact that CAP web sites were displaying pictures that, in some cases, didn't reflect well on the organization.  In some cases, the public embarrassment did cause webmasters to pull bad uniform pictures from their web sites.

Still, there are better ways to get webmasters to do that.  Like a polite E-mail, instead of public humiliation.  I agree with Pylon; this type of thread has no place on a CAP forum.

[MSgt Van]

From AFI36-2903:

" when not being worn, may be stowed in either of the lower cargo pockets on the
trousers. "

I wonder why, in our wisdom, we change the wording from "may be stowed" to "is stowed". 

Call me a flagrant violator...

[sandman]

I always put it in my cargo pocket. Habit from my Army days. BDU's were supposed to be the original "wash 'n' wear", but towards the end of my Army tour many people starched the heck out of (into?) them just like the pickle suits. of course, I'm the rebel so I just ironed them to pass muster and always placed my hat in my cargo pocket when not worn. That's just the way it was done.

/r
LT

[MSgt Van]

When in the field I fold and put in top pants pocket so it's completely out of site. When I'm doing the meeting thing it's shaped and "lightly" starched...and left on the table upside down with my keys and phone in the cap.  Nobody takes it, or hides it. I don't think they'd do that on a bet...

[notaNCO forever]

 In the field I put it in my cargo pocket and at meetings I iron it so it looks good and leave it on a table when not on my head. I used to starch it but it looks decent enough without starch.

[JoeTomasone]

From AFI36-2903:

" when not being worn, may be stowed in either of the lower cargo pockets on the
trousers. "

I wonder why, in our wisdom, we change the wording from "may be stowed" to "is stowed". 

Call me a flagrant violator...

Beats me, but it's not the only AF reg that we've modified.

[lordmonar]

I've lately gotten in the habit of confiscating BDU caps that are left on tables or elsewhere instead of being stowed in the BDU trouser cargo pocket as 39-1 requires. 

Joe...what you are doing is wrong.

Yes 39-1 says "when not being worn the BDU hat will be stored in the either lower cargo pocket"....but that does not give you the right to steal.....nor did the writers of 39-1 intend that we not place our hat on hat racks, desk tops, etc.

[DC]

Rarely put my hat in the cargo pocket. I don't starch my hat, but I do iron it and don't care to fold and stuff it into a pocket. I also hate the look of a bulging pocket. When it comes to ES I don't hesitate to utilize pockets for all they are worth, but at meetings I prefer to keep my uniform looking neat. When I am not wearing it, it is either in my hand, or on the nearest suitable flat surface, usually a table, commonly the 'staff table' in our meeting room, along with my binder and computer.

It is rediculous to confiscate peoples' hats and humiliate them based on their personal preference in carrying their own belongings.

[RiverAux]

While everybody is certainly allowed to have their own pet peeves, BDU hat storage would be at the very bottom of any list I made of CAP uniform wearing issues. 

[bosshawk]

IMHO: embarrassing a member is counter-productive, rude and inconsiderate: all things that CAP usually tries to avoid.  In fact, in polite society, those sorts of things are not tolerated: why should they be in CAP?

The gentleman who is confiscating hats is a petty thief.  I once encountered an AF Colonel, the base commander at Rhein-Main AB in Germany, who had a fetish about Officers hats.  He ONCE went through the coat room at the O Club and threw away all the hats that he didn't like.  He just happened to toss a hat belonging to an Army Major General, who took exception to his action.  The Colonel got to purchase new hats for everyone whose hats he had tossed.

No room for that kind of crap in CAP.

[DKruse]

I've lately gotten in the habit of confiscating BDU caps that are left on tables or elsewhere instead of being stowed in the BDU trouser cargo pocket as 39-1 requires.   

While the rest of your colleagues are busy actually running the squadron/group.......

[Hawk200]

I don't agree with the habit of confiscating caps, but this is getting a little rough.

I think our poster understands that it's probably not appropriate now.

[Major Carrales]

Since the purpose would likely be to humiliate those wearing the incorrect uniforms and to chide those who posted them or approved them for publication or posting to the web, I don't see that as flying very far.  For the most part, every CAP member is aware of the wide variety of uniform violations that members wear.  Most of us see them all the time.  Posting pictures of people wearing the uniform wrong doesn't help us correct the issue nor provide anything other than perhaps comic relief and amusement at the expense of others.

In short: how about not?   Let's post something, instead, that would be constructive and of professional use to other CAPTalk members. 

Well said, the resulting unprofessionalism and comments unbecoming resulted in a large collection of items that make CAP look ridiculous.  The better thing to do is to insure your neck of the woods is free from these "violations."

Poorly worn CAP uniforms is not entertainment...it is a problem.  From Units that lack doing their to persons making up uniform items, it is best left an untrodden path.

[Major Carrales]

Sometimes a little embarrassment is the best way to correct a deficency...

I agree to a point.  It only works as long as the person doing the embarrassing understands what "a little embarrassment" really is to the person being embarrassed.   Some people are so thick skinned you really have to work hard to embarrass them, others are totally humiliated just realizing they did it wrong. 

This is very unbecoming.  "A little embarrassment" behind a person's back with no direct correction violates the CAP Core Values of Intergrity and Respect.  Showing us at "less than our best" in a public internet forum violates the Core Value of Excellence.  The act would be a disservice.  Wrong all the way around!

Sorry, I cannot see such a thread as constructive.

[Eclipse]

Headgear (BDU Cap) Worn squarely on head with no hair protruding in front of the cap.
When not being worn, is stowed in either of the lower cargo pockets on the trousers. Only AF-style or Army-style BDU cap will be worn. All senior members and cadet airmen and NCOs do not wear any type of
insignia on the cap. Cadet officers wear the embroidered grade insignia on the cap 1/2 inch above visor.

With that said, if you have cadets who take the time to square up their caps with starch, etc., then its ridiculous to be running around scooping them up and trying to make some kind of silly point about following the regs.

As much of a uniform-stasi as I get accused of being, this is not the kind of thing I would think once about, let alone twice.

There is also a difference, in practical reality, between a hat you'd wear in the field, and a hat you'd wear to a unit meeting - same with BDUs (thus the starch / no starch arguments).

There is a tipping point of adherence to regulations where it works against what you are trying to achieve.

I get a little peeved at people who don't read and follow regs - but really the ones who don't bother to read and follow the uniform regs because the uniform is intergral to everything we do.   I mean, let's say we've got a mission safety officer who doesn't read/comply with 39-1 - how can we have confidence that he's following proper safety regulations?   It's not like 99% of these issues cost anything but a little effort to correct as well.  I cut a little slack for those who haven't been able to follow the myriad of 39-1 supplements that have come out (like the cadet airmen/NCOs wearing chevrons on both collars and ditching the CAP cutouts - mandatory date was March 2008), but if you can't be bothered to follow what is in the manual currently, then you're just being lazy or you just don't care.

Consistency is important, and I would say that the grade situation is more important and more visible than some silliness about where you store your hat.

With all the above said, if you post photos publicly, you're fair game for review.  The problem with the CS threads was that they got mean-spirited, or started drilling-down into photos which were never intended for public viewing.

As NIN pointed out on many occasions, one of the points of that thread was to hold up the PAO's and posters as fools, not just the members.  No one is perfect - I spent an entire encampment wearing a pull-over sweater without a Wing patch, and no one noticed until we reviewed the  photos.

[Major Carrales]

As NIN pointed out on many occasions, one of the points of that thread was to hold up the PAO's and posters as fools, not just the members. 

Posting a thread that Google can easily find to make CAP Officers and Cadets look like "fools" is not a good practice.  Correction is the domain of the Unit and Group Commander or Squadron Leadership Officer, not self-appointed CAP Threadsters.

[MIKE]

Over-sensitivity killed this thread.