Renewal or not?

[FW]

I hadn't seen a thread in a long time with so much I could agree with. I hope someone's taking note of this one.

Far as the 2000 changes, that was not to make us more corporate. That was congress reacting to the CAP corporation being out of control, removing governing power from the NB/NEC & placing it in a new BoG, which the AF had appointing power over. There was even a debate raised by GAO for a time if those BoG members should require senate confirmation. The whole point then was to weaken the corporate aspect & re-instill greater control to AF, while still providing the legal & benefit aspects of being a non-profit entity.

Not to stray off topic however, it may have been the intent of the 2000 legislation to do what you said.  But, the reality of the situation was to make us even more "corporate".  

I deal with this stuff on a daily basis and I can assure you the powers that be are now "toying" with the idea of NB members attending NB meetings in business attire.  The Air Force is questioning our spending on cadet programs and, even the expenses for publishing the annual report to congress.

At the very least.  I would hope for honest minimum requirements for wing/ccs,  ongoing leadership training, real tenure, and BOG confirmation of Natl Commander and Vice.  

FWIW, If it were up to the Air Force, we would get about $1.50.  But, our "grant" comes from congress and is administered by a "grants officer" who happens to be an Air Force employee.  CAP-USAF is tasked to insure proper use of our grant and that our missions are "appropriate".  Even though the CAP-USAF/CC is a member of the NEC and NB, it is as a non voting member.

[BillB]

The CAP-USAF Vice Commander under General B Putnam was Colonel McCormack, who upon retiring became CAP SER Commander.

[mikeylikey]

I was not going to write this but here goes.  I am a non-renewal when my time comes in about 6 months.  A...I will be in Afghanistan (can't help much from there) and I am getting sick of the politics and petty stupidness that is coming from the top. 

It is getting to the point of pure frustration and I just don't think I Can handle much more idiocracy.  I don't even think I will be moving over into patron status.  I think this was it.  UNLESS NHQ pays for the dues for members that ordered to Active Duty or deployed, I won't renew.

[ColonelJack]

I was not going to write this but here goes.  I am a non-renewal when my time comes in about 6 months.  A...I will be in Afghanistan (can't help much from there) and I am getting sick of the politics and petty stupidness that is coming from the top. 

It is getting to the point of pure frustration and I just don't think I Can handle much more idiocracy.  I don't even think I will be moving over into patron status.  I think this was it.  UNLESS NHQ pays for the dues for members that ordered to Active Duty or deployed, I won't renew.

So you're encouraging me to come back even as you contemplate taking a walk, eh?   

Jack

[DNall]

Far as the 2000 changes, that was not to make us more corporate. That was congress reacting to the CAP corporation being out of control, removing governing power from the NB/NEC & placing it in a new BoG, which the AF had appointing power over. There was even a debate raised by GAO for a time if those BoG members should require senate confirmation. The whole point then was to weaken the corporate aspect & re-instill greater control to AF, while still providing the legal & benefit aspects of being a non-profit entity.

Not to stray off topic however, it may have been the intent of the 2000 legislation to do what you said.  But, the reality of the situation was to make us even more "corporate". 

Power struggle by CAP leadership. They didn't want to give up the power that was taken away from them by congress, so they maximized the power delegated to them by the BoG & pushed back under the corporate mantel. Congress doesn't want that, I can assure you. The AF doesn't want that, which was the purpose of the legislation. Which itself was watered down from the AF version which was them taking control of the org.

FWIW, If it were up to the Air Force, we would get about $1.50.  But, our "grant" comes from congress and is administered by a "grants officer" who happens to be an Air Force employee.  CAP-USAF is tasked to insure proper use of our grant and that our missions are "appropriate".  Even though the CAP-USAF/CC is a member of the NEC and NB, it is as a non voting member.

You real sure about that? Cause I've personally talked to the last three SecAF's 2 of three CSAFs, and about 60 members of congress about CAP. That's not the prevailing view among any of them.

Yes, there are a lot of mid-grade people in the AF who understand CAP is not contributing in a measurable way to any of the major missions of the AF, so should be a lower priority in the budget. However, that has never been the view of leadership. I will tell you that the AF is for the most part just as frustrated as the people you see here with the performance & actions of CAP. They'd just assume take control, which is what the overwhelming majority of members would favor. Congress is split on the issue & always has been. The only people in favor of a functional corporation separate from the AF chain of command are the corporate leadership.

[Walkman]

Well, as a new guy, I hope I can work my CAP career in a way as to avoid the burnout so many of you have expressed. Right now, as a brand new butterbar, this is one of the coolest things I've ever been involved with.

[RiverAux]

Walkman, the best way to maintain that attitude is to immediately desist from participating in any discussions on CAPTalk.  It will only make your attitude worse. 

[FW]

[Power struggle by CAP leadership. They didn't want to give up the power that was taken away from them by congress, so they maximized the power delegated to them by the BoG & pushed back under the corporate mantel. Congress doesn't want that, I can assure you. The AF doesn't want that, which was the purpose of the legislation. Which itself was watered down from the AF version which was them taking control of the org.

FWIW, If it were up to the Air Force, we would get about $1.50.  But, our "grant" comes from congress and is administered by a "grants officer" who happens to be an Air Force employee.  CAP-USAF is tasked to insure proper use of our grant and that our missions are "appropriate".  Even though the CAP-USAF/CC is a member of the NEC and NB, it is as a non voting member.

You real sure about that? Cause I've personally talked to the last three SecAF's 2 of three CSAFs, and about 60 members of congress about CAP. That's not the prevailing view among any of them.

My point is:  It is our friends in congress who insure our grant every year.  The AF goes along with this because of our continued congressional support.  That's why when every year the AF cuts 3-5 million bucks from our grant, it gets plussed up by congress.

You think we got $10 million for aircraft purchases from the AF?  Nope, it was from our friends at Cessna Aircraft lobbying congress for some CAP business.  This is how things get done.  

I'm not really concerned about some "mid grade AF" types who don't understand the missions of CAP.  And no one is concerned about a $30m grant when the AF needs an extra $15-20 BILLION per year for the next 10 years to keep flying.

I am gratefull however, of the members of the BOG appointed by the SECAF (4 members) who take their duties seriously and do help keep us on track.

As for power struggles; I would like some more detail.  The BOG controlls the IG, EX and Constitution and Bylaws.  It is the BOG who was the power.  Everything else flows from that body.  It would be a just a small leap for the BOG to exercise their authority and change everything if things were going so bad.  However, IMHO, things are going pretty good.

Soo.. I'll just keep doing my duty,  keep renewing every year and yes, be proud of my continued membership in CAP.

[Walkman]

Walkman, the best way to maintain that attitude is to immediately desist from participating in any discussions on CAPTalk.  It will only make your attitude worse. 

NOW you tell me!   

[Cecil DP]

I go through this every time I renew. Thanks to a couple of multiple year renewals it's done to about 30 times. I don't know what I'll be doing this November when I get the renewal notice. But I am frustrated by several things which are prevelant in CAP and the politics involved. I've done everything in the program except IACE and being a Wing Commander and truthfully I can go to Europe on my own an don't want the W/C job

[DNall]

My point is...

You're a tab misinformed there bud. I'll be happy to continue via PM if you like, but we don't need to push this further off topic between the two of us.

[flyboy]

I notice there seems to be a repeated sentiment among the folks here that we need to become less corporate and more military. I've heard this opinion stated repeatedly by older members, especially military veteran members.  However, the statement isn't really clear in meaning.  What does being "more military" really mean?  Does that mean there's more drill?  The uniform regulations are more stringent? We drop members for push-ups if they are late for a meeting?  More importantly, why is it that people think this would help?

[JohnKachenmeister]

OK, fair question.

Becoming more military means that we would accept the military values as our own, not approach the regulations like a barraks lawyer trying to "catch" one another on miniscule violations.  "All the brothers are valiant, and all of the sisters are virtuous" would be the guiding principle in our interpersonal relationships.

(The foregoing does not apply at dinings-in, when Mr. Vice can be set upon any breech of decorum for the entertainment of others!)

Becoming more military means also making our operations smoother.  Our command relationships should be linear, with clear chains of command.  For example, the IC is in charge at missions, but not the movement TO and FROM a mission base, unless it is an air movement.  Ground movements are a command responsibility of the sending unit.  When one can clearly explain the command and staff relationships, and reduce them to orders in a format that Cadet Snuffy can understand, one has gone a long way to doing things the way the military does.  Plus, it will enhance your understanding of NIMS, which is based on the military staffing model.

CAP has a long heritage as a part of the USAF.  Becoming more military means accepting this heritage and internalizing it.  At least, not running from it or denying it.  We have traditionally been second-line troops, pilots and ground crews culled out of the herd as not fit to make the trail ride to the slaughterhouse.  But there have still been missions, including combat missions, that we have performed.  Being ready to do these missions, being proud of the heritage we share with the Air Force, and realizing that we are as much a part of the Air Force story as anybody is another big part of becoming more military.

OK, now I'm starting to feel like Sgt. Hulka talking to Pvt. John Winger in the latrine.

[mikeylikey]

OK, now I'm starting to feel like Sgt. Hulka talking to Pvt. John Winger in the latrine.

Your post was spot on Sir.  BTW Favorite movie.......

[floridacyclist]

So what do you do when you realize that you're spinning your wheels trying to get anything good done, yet you have kids in, you've seen the good changes in your older kids, and your youngest just joined with at least 6 more years to go? Grimly hang on until you can kick him out of the house or?

[JohnKachenmeister]

So what do you do when you realize that you're spinning your wheels trying to get anything good done, yet you have kids in, you've seen the good changes in your older kids, and your youngest just joined with at least 6 more years to go? Grimly hang on until you can kick him out of the house or?

Well, Gene...

I suppose we could engineer a coup-de-etat!

Now IF we were a part of the Air Force, this would be a "Mutiny," and we could all be shot.  But since so many of our so-called "Leaders" want to run this place as a corporation, I suppose this would only be considered a "Hostile Takeover," and therefore perfectly acceptable.

We could burn the National Executive Committee in Effigy.  (Effigy, Florida; a small town in Polk County where there are very few witnesses and nobody speaks English.  Their cries for help will go untranslated.

[FW]

Effigy, Fl.  I could use some warmth at this time of the year.  And maybe we could chant:  "Core Values  Core Values"  over and over again.  

[DNall]

We could burn the National Executive Committee in Effigy.  (Effigy, Florida; a small town in Polk County where there are very few witnesses and nobody speaks English.  Their cries for help will go untranslated.

And maybe we could chant:  "Core Values  Core Values"  over and over again.   

   and hostile takeover, i like that.

[dwb]

I'm pretty well convinced that all organizations have frustrating and absurd politics, especially at the top.  If you don't think our parent service is rife with meddling middle management and shady politics, well, you're just being naive.

What can you do, really?  Well, you can vote with your feet.  Or you can be one of the 95% of CAPers that just do their job and serve the organization they love, and brush off all the politicos and pundits.

You don't leave the United States for another country when your elected officials disappoint you, right?  Your love of country is greater than your opinion of any particular elected official.

So it is with CAP.  My love for the organization is greater than my disappointment in any particular CAP leaders I've seen (and I've seen some pretty disappointing leaders).

[FW]

So it is with CAP.  My love for the organization is greater than my disappointment in any particular CAP leaders I've seen (and I've seen some pretty disappointing leaders).

That about sums it up for me.  Over the years, I've developed a very thick filter which screens about about 90% of the BS comming at me from most CAP members I deal with.  The 10% which gets through  I can't control so I don't bother with it. 
What amazes me is after 30 or so years, I still enjoy CAP and the many friendships and acquaintances I've developed.