Renewal or not?

[JayT]

2.  I go back to the early 1960's in this organization.  I am hoping that we are just going through a phase, and eventually this "Corporate mentality" will be exterminated.  Then we can get back to doing what CAP was created for, and can do it without a bunch of barracks lawyers telling me that wearing a patch that says "US Air Force Auxiliary" will violate a law that they have never actually read.

Major

How has the world changed since the 1960s? Why should CAP be stuck in the past like that? Hell, I'm only 19 years old, and I'ven seen then world change. I think that this 'Corporate mentality' is just how a lot of America society is.

[JohnKachenmeister]

2.  I go back to the early 1960's in this organization.  I am hoping that we are just going through a phase, and eventually this "Corporate mentality" will be exterminated.  Then we can get back to doing what CAP was created for, and can do it without a bunch of barracks lawyers telling me that wearing a patch that says "US Air Force Auxiliary" will violate a law that they have never actually read.

Major

How has the world changed since the 1960s? Why should CAP be stuck in the past like that? Hell, I'm only 19 years old, and I'ven seen then world change. I think that this 'Corporate mentality' is just how a lot of America society is.

That is because you're only 19.

Guys that have been around as long as I have, or longer, understand that a sense of tradition a sense of connection with your past and your roots, is a valuable guide to the future.

[Stonewall]

Guys that have been around as long as I have, or longer, understand that a sense of tradition a sense of connection with your past and your roots, is a valuable guide to the future.

+1  Nicely said.

[DNall]

I'm sympathetic with a LOT of the stuff posted in this thread. I hate CAP & love it at the same time. I've quit & come back a couple times. It's frustrating as hell. If it weren't for a few rewarding experiences working with cadets I'd be gone, and even at that I feel like I don't want to be here & am just doing it out of obligation sometimes, a lot of times.

I've really scaled back my participation of late & picked up a lot more (time consuming) responsibility with the guard. I hope the corporate age dies sooner rather than later, and CAP gets its crap together. Given the current enviro though, that seems herculean compared to actually fixing all our other problems.

My renewal is a few months off. I'll probably keep it up, but who knows. I may also drop back to patron status till I feel like I want to be part of it again. It really is hard to be a CAP member when you're so frustrated & disappointed all the time. I know there is enormous potential hidden back under there somewhere though.

[isuhawkeye]

^^^  Change. 

Change the organization into what?  Thats the problem.

this weekend I sat and watched the national board present a meritorious service award.  In the write up they cited many many things that I had seen develop in my own wing.  The recipient had excelled in mission development, standardized training, getting legislation passed, developing stability, and many more positive attributes.  Unfortunately in the last two months those same achievements which were being exhausted at the national level have been dissolved in my wing. 

I faced the membership challenge, and I spoke with my feet. 

[Trouble]

Guys that have been around as long as I have, or longer, understand that a sense of tradition a sense of connection with your past and your roots, is a valuable guide to the future.

+1  Nicely said.

I second that emotion.  Very well said Sir!

In fact I would argue that because of those changes, especially the changes that are currently taking place around the world, that maintaining that connection is more important than it has ever been. 

[DNall]

You asking me what change? It's already been said...

I am hoping that we are just going through a phase, and eventually this "Corporate mentality" will be exterminated. 

I think the Air Force is trying to re-militarize itself, if that makes sense.  I'm hoping CAP will do the same.

a vocal minority who tries to move CAP away from what it was in the 50s, 60s, and 70s - a military-styled organization that trains cadets, conducts missions, and is a part of the Air Force.

I've grown tired of poor leadership.  I've grown tired of watching friends who are fine leaders who are serving under untrained politicians.

I personally think CAP is desperately in need of an intervention.

[davedove]

Guys that have been around as long as I have, or longer, understand that a sense of tradition a sense of connection with your past and your roots, is a valuable guide to the future.

+1  Nicely said.

I second that emotion.  Very well said Sir!

In fact I would argue that because of those changes, especially the changes that are currently taking place around the world, that maintaining that connection is more important than it has ever been. 

It's a two-edged sword.  It's important to keep the traditions to maintain the continuity in a chaotic world.  However, one cannot be so bound up in tradition that one fails to respond to change.

[FW]

In 2000, CAP became a different organization; with a corporate Board of Governors, an advisory board (National Board) and a senior advisory board (NEC).
This, my friends, is the world of "Civil Air Patrol, Inc."  Our relationship with the Air Force has changed.  The way we do business has changed.  The way we prosecute our missions has changed.  Our National Corp. Staff (paid), while sensitive to the needs of the membership, must obey our "Cooperative Agreement" and "Statement of Work".  Our "Constitution and Bylaws" are a members only documents.  

We live in an increasingly complex world and, for better or worse, an increasingly complex CAP.  Uniform items aside, IMHO, we've done a pretty good job of keeping up with the times.

[capchiro]

All, I have over 30 years since my last join date.  I was in as a senior prior to that and as a cadet in the glorious 60's.  That being said, there have been highs and lows over the decades.  During one period, I let my membership continue while I was doing some home stuff with the wife and little one.  I continued my membership so that I didn't lose all that I had worked for during the prior years.  My Dad was prior Air force and one of my son's graduated from the Air Force Academy, so I kind of feel like a military family.  Let me make anyone that is depressed, distressed and ready to quit a proposition.  Start a squadron, either cadet or composite.  All of you have several years of experience and know the program.  Everyone will help you start a squadron and believe it or not, it's not that difficult.  (Not that difficult to start a squadron that is).  The difficult part is making the squadron work.  The reward is seeing new cadets and senior members join and succeed with your help and guidance.  There aren't that many politics at the squadron level, not if you are doing what you should be doing.  My job is too help each individual reach their potential and goals.  And guess what, not all individuals have the same goals and potentials.  Some are ES, some are aviation, some are cadets, etc.  That is what makes it fun.  It is very challenging and does not give you the time to consider not renewing or feeling sorry for yourself.  It moves the emphasis from oneself to the squadron.  If you will attempt to start a squadron and give it a year and still want to quit, then I will agree that you should, but until then, think bigger than you have been.  Get with the program and you will begin to enjoy the program.  If anyone should decide to start a squadron and need help or advice, please contact me.  That is all..

[MIGCAP]

The problem is that CAP once was the USAF Auxiliary PERIOD! Whatever we did, was because the USAF wanted it done. (For the most part anyway). The purpose of the Corporation was to facilitate that mission, and that's it. We needed the corporation because that way we could get benefits of some sort, have tax exempt status, provide some measure of protection for the members (e.g. legal representation etc), and have a small efficient paid staff to do the repetitive stuff that the members, because they are volunteers, did not have the time to do. The corporate part of CAP was just a necessary, front end, nothing more.
I think what has the old guys (and I'm one) bothered enough to run away is that what we have morphed into is a corporation who will be the USAF Auxiliary on the corporation's terms.  We have the corporation making the decisions that the members should be making, protecting their own interests, and in general spending most of the money that the USAF gives us, as opposed to spending it on the Three Missions.
We need to go back to the era when the corporation was a tool of the volunteers, not the other way around.

[mikeylikey]

^ We really need the CAP National Commander to be a 2 Star AF Officer.  Enough with CAP-USAF......get daily operations at Maxwell run that way.  We now have the Corporate weenies that grew up as yes men and yes women (doing whatever they could to bolster the Corporation), in charge.  Total restructuring from top to bottom.  For as much as the AF gives CAP, they should have a 95% say in what happens on a daily basis. 

Now.....I am totally against the Corporate entity if you could not tell that.  Corporations are the ruination of this country!

I accept bashings between 10AM and 3PM.  Anyother time they will be ignored.   

[JoeTomasone]

Now.....I am totally against the Corporate entity if you could not tell that.  Corporations are the ruination of this country!

The Corporate ENTITY is needed and valuable for legal reasons since we are Civilians. 

The Corporate MENTALITY?  Not so much.

[mikeylikey]

Now.....I am totally against the Corporate entity if you could not tell that.  Corporations are the ruination of this country!

The Corporate ENTITY is needed and valuable for legal reasons since we are Civilians. 

The Corporate MENTALITY?  Not so much.

Is the Coast Guard Auxiliary (as many here like to compare CAP to) a Corporation?  OR does the Coast Guard run it at higher levels?  Do they still get federal funding?  We should be more like that organization!

[Gunner C]

^ We really need the CAP National Commander to be a 2 Star AF Officer.  Enough with CAP-USAF......get daily operations at Maxwell run that way.  We now have the Corporate weenies that grew up as yes men and yes women (doing whatever they could to bolster the Corporation), in charge.  Total restructuring from top to bottom.  For as much as the AF gives CAP, they should have a 95% say in what happens on a daily basis. 

Now.....I am totally against the Corporate entity if you could not tell that.  Corporations are the ruination of this country!

I accept bashings between 10AM and 3PM.  Anyother time they will be ignored.   

WIWAC, that was the case.  Brig Gen William W. Wilcox was the National Commander.  He was a USAF 1 star.  Following him was Maj Gen Walter B. Putnam, an old SAC guy who was recalled to active duty to be the CAP/CC.  The chief of staff was a colonel named Cox who was the aircraft commander of the B-29 that followed the Enola Gay and took target photos.

Let me tell you, with officers like these, CAP was a different place.  Sure, there was still the National Board and NEC, and the ranking CAP officer was the Chairman of the NB (then a colonel, later a brig gen when Lyle W. Castle got his star), but the style of leadership at the top was well trained because they were active duty officers.  They knew how to lead and inspire.  That's something that we DON'T have these days.

GC

[JohnKachenmeister]

Now.....I am totally against the Corporate entity if you could not tell that.  Corporations are the ruination of this country!

The Corporate ENTITY is needed and valuable for legal reasons since we are Civilians. 

The Corporate MENTALITY?  Not so much.

Nonsense.  The corporate entity is valuable only for purposes of contracting with local and state governments and NGO's.  That is also our 1948 Congressional mandate, but the fact is that a generation of terrible leaders with no military background have taken the word "Corporation" and twisted CAP into a perversion of itself and a parody of a for-profit corporation.

[DNall]

I hadn't seen a thread in a long time with so much I could agree with. I hope someone's taking note of this one.

Far as the 2000 changes, that was not to make us more corporate. That was congress reacting to the CAP corporation being out of control, removing governing power from the NB/NEC & placing it in a new BoG, which the AF had appointing power over. There was even a debate raised by GAO for a time if those BoG members should require senate confirmation. The whole point then was to weaken the corporate aspect & re-instill greater control to AF, while still providing the legal & benefit aspects of being a non-profit entity.

[JohnKachenmeister]

^ We really need the CAP National Commander to be a 2 Star AF Officer.  Enough with CAP-USAF......get daily operations at Maxwell run that way.  We now have the Corporate weenies that grew up as yes men and yes women (doing whatever they could to bolster the Corporation), in charge.  Total restructuring from top to bottom.  For as much as the AF gives CAP, they should have a 95% say in what happens on a daily basis. 

Now.....I am totally against the Corporate entity if you could not tell that.  Corporations are the ruination of this country!

I accept bashings between 10AM and 3PM.  Anyother time they will be ignored.   

I won't bash you for that idea, and I doubt that many others will.

Back in the day, the National Commander was a USAF officer and the Deputy was a CAP officer.  CAP was a better place back then.

I would LIKE to see a rule that nobody could be appointed COL or higher in CAP without a minimum of 10 years commissioned service, active OR reserve.

[DNall]

How about we just start with confirmation/veto by the AF.

[JoeTomasone]

Is the Coast Guard Auxiliary (as many here like to compare CAP to) a Corporation?  OR does the Coast Guard run it at higher levels?  Do they still get federal funding?  We should be more like that organization!

From their site:

When the Coast Guard "Reserve" was authorized by act of Congress on June 23, 1939, the Coast Guard was given a legislative mandate to use civilian volunteers to promote safety on and over the high seas and the nation's navigable waters. The Coast Guard Reserve was then a non-military service comprised of unpaid, volunteer U.S. citizens who owned motorboats or yachts.

Two years later, on Feb. 19, Congress amended the 1939 act with passage of the Auxiliary and Reserve Act of 1941. Passage of this act designated the Reserve as a military branch of the active service, while the civilian volunteers, formerly referred to as the Coast Guard Reserve, became the Auxiliary. So, February 19 is formally recognized as the birth of the Coast Guard Reserve while June 23 is recognized as birthday of the Coast Guard Auxiliary.

<snip>

Although under the authority of the Commandant of the U.S. Coast Guard, the Auxiliary is internally autonomous, operating on four organizational levels: Flotilla, Division, District Regions and National.

Looks like they have a sister corporation that handles their business affairs:

What type of corporation is the Coast Guard Auxiliary Association, Inc.?

The Coast Guard Auxiliary Association, Inc., is a Non-Profit, 501(c)(3) organization incorporated under the laws of the District of Columbia. The Commandant of the U.S. Coast Guard authorized the establishment of the Association as the only corporation authorized to provide for the business management of the U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary.