CAPR 35-5 draft

[Cecil DP]

The proposed CAPR 35-5 has been posted to E-services. It looks good, but I have suggested a few minor changes. Please comment.

Paragraph 1-3c (6) is inaccurate. It shows the grade of Sergeant for members who earned the grade of E-4 in the military. The Air Force dropped this title 30 years ago. It is now Senior Airman, not Sergeant.

Paragraph 1-6a: Minimum eligibility requirements for appointment to officer grade. Should be amended to be at least 21years of age unless already possessing a federally recognized Commission or appointment as Warrant Officer of the Armed Forces of the United States

By amending this line we would recognize the fact that the there are a few members of the Armed Forces who are commissioned prior to their 21st birthday and that the US Army does have Warrant Officer program which  takes in recent high school graduates and puts them directly into aviation school and thereby appoints WO's as early as  18 or 19 years of age. This would alleviate the need for a special promotion request to be promulgated through the Chain of Command.
 

Michael P. McEleney

[arajca]

CAP is not the AF. Sergeant is recognized as an NCO grade, SrA is not. An E-4 in the Army may be an NCO, an E-4 in the AF is not.

The 21 yo requirement for officers, is a standard. It should not be changed for the exceptions. What percentage of military officers are commissioned before age 21? 10%? 15%? less than 1%? And how long before they turn 21 are they commissioned? Does this standard really effect them? How many of the under-21 WO's are involved with CAP? What's wrong with them being Flight Officers until they turn 21? A promotion based on military grade IS a special promotion request that needs to be submitted through the chain of command, regardless of the grade.

[Cecil DP]

CAP is not the AF. Sergeant is recognized as an NCO grade, SrA is not. An E-4 in the Army may be an NCO, an E-4 in the AF is not.

The 21 yo requirement for officers, is a standard. It should not be changed for the exceptions. What percentage of military officers are commissioned before age 21? 10%? 15%? less than 1%? And how long before they turn 21 are they commissioned? Does this standard really effect them? How many of the under-21 WO's are involved with CAP? What's wrong with them being Flight Officers until they turn 21? A promotion based on military grade IS a special promotion request that needs to be submitted through the chain of command, regardless of the grade.

The USAF and US Army both have a minimum age requirement of 18 to be commissioned out of OTS/OCS. 21 is an expectation, not a requirement for either service.

How many under 21 year old officers or Warrents are members of CAP? Who knows? But if a commissioned officer came into your unit would you tell him that you don't accept his commission because he's too young?
Billy Mitchell was 18 when he was commissioned.
Audie Murphy was 19
MG S.D. Butler, USMC who was awarded two Medals of Honor was 16
GEN Robert Cushman, Commandant  of the Marine Corp 1972-75 graduated from Annapolis at 20.
President Bush was 17 when he was commissioned in WWII.
A guess these men wouldn't be acceptable to you either.

As far as the SGT/Sr Airman question. If the Air Force wants their E-4s to be non-NCO's that's their business, but the grade is still Sr Airman, if we're using their grade structure. 

[arajca]

IIRC, the 21 requirement came from the AF.

As for the gentlemen you list, the world has changed greatly since then. The closest to today's time was more than 30 years ago.

Since the AF doesn't have a problem with CAP using Sgt, why should we change? The AF has to approve our grade structure. I'm fairly confident that if the AF told CAP the E-4 is a SrA, that's what we'd use.

As to an under 21 yo commissioned officer coming to my unit, yes, I would tell him that. I'd also tell him that the requirement is in accordance with OUR regulations, which are NOT the same as the AF regulations. 

[Short Field]

[As far as the SGT/Sr Airman question. If the Air Force wants their E-4s to be non-NCO's that's their business, but the grade is still Sr Airman, if we're using their grade structure. 

I remember the discussions well when the USAF went from SGT to Senior Airman.  The issue was pressure from the other services about E-4s being NCOs in the Air Force and not in the other services (yes, Corporal is considered the bottom of the NCO ranks, but not all Army E-4s are Corporals).  For a while the USAF used a two-tier E-4 rank, where you were a Senior Airman when you first made E-4, then you became a Sgt later.  There were two sets of rank for E-4 - the coloring of the star was different for Sr Amn and Sgt. 

I am sure some Colonel made Brig Gen for spearheading this improvement in our war fighting ability....

[Pylon]

As far as the SGT/Sr Airman question. If the Air Force wants their E-4s to be non-NCO's that's their business, but the grade is still Sr Airman, if we're using their grade structure. 

But that's the thing... we're not using the Air Force grade structure. By definition CAP NCO's are NCO's.  An E-4 Army or Marine NCO could come into CAP and qualify to be a CAP NCO.  You wouldn't call them Senior Airman, because that's not an NCO title... Sergeant is an appropriate NCO title.   

The Air Force eliminated E-4 NCOs, the other services have them; CAP accepts NCOs from all services, thus E-4 having a CAP NCO title is necessary.  Make better sense explained that way?