Initial Rank ?'s

[Climbnsink]

Hi all.  I'm new here and new to CAP<1 year.  No RM experience.   I recently got my 2LT promotion.    As I understand it CFI's get ranked as Captain after the initial 6 months.  However I'm a helicopter CFI, with private privileges SEL(form 5 is done almost finished w/scanner training).   Should I be a Captain? How much does it matter?   
I believe the reg just states CFI whether or not they intended it to be airplane specific is the question and whether they promote that way.   Also for what it's worth if it is some gray area I don't want to be a 'grade grubber.'
Thanks
Gregg

[SJFedor]

The regulation states that they may be promoted to Captain, but that is subject to approval by the Wing HQ. It is not an automatic promotion.

If you're a helicopter CFI, with only PPASEL priviledges, it's highly unlikely you'd get the advanced promotion to Captain, since you being a helicopter CFI doesn't help the CAP mission. However, if you have your instrument-airplane rating, you can at least get your 1st Lt done.

I mean, you can try, submit it to Wing via your chain of command, and see what happens, but I'd doubt they'd approve it.

[Climbnsink]

Thanks.  I'm not going to go and try asking for rank that I don't deserve according to the rules.   
Gregg 

[mikeylikey]

^ Might as well ask for it!  Everyone else does.  Seems like you too can join the Automatic Captains club.  Welcome to CAP, and congrats on 2nd LT!  Since you just got that, I would reccomend moving up the route most members do, with TIG and PRO DEV. 

No offense to automatic Captains, but whats the big rush?  You can do everything you do now as a 2nd LT.  The only difference is Automatic Captains can take SOS sooner, instead of later (which I don't agree with!)

[mynetdude]

^ Might as well ask for it!  Everyone else does.  Seems like you too can join the Automatic Captains club.  Welcome to CAP, and congrats on 2nd LT!  Since you just got that, I would reccomend moving up the route most members do, with TIG and PRO DEV. 

No offense to automatic Captains, but whats the big rush?  You can do everything you do know as a 2nd LT.  The only difference is Automatic Captains can take SOS sooner, instead of later (which I don't agree with!)

We had a captain in my squadron who was in my SLS class, he was required to take it even though he was a captain already and he is an FAA examiner and CFI (not sure if he is an CFII or just CFI but I know he is definetely an FAA examiner).

So my question is, does a new member who goes straight to captain have to do all the stuff 2nd Lts have to do and such? Or can they promote and do things as if they had been a captain for 3 years already?

[arajca]

If they want to progress beyond Capt, they need to fill the PD classes.

[SJFedor]

^ Might as well ask for it!  Everyone else does.  Seems like you too can join the Automatic Captains club.  Welcome to CAP, and congrats on 2nd LT!  Since you just got that, I would reccomend moving up the route most members do, with TIG and PRO DEV. 

No offense to automatic Captains, but whats the big rush?  You can do everything you do know as a 2nd LT.  The only difference is Automatic Captains can take SOS sooner, instead of later (which I don't agree with!)

We had a captain in my squadron who was in my SLS class, he was required to take it even though he was a captain already and he is an FAA examiner and CFI (not sure if he is an CFII or just CFI but I know he is definetely an FAA examiner).

So my question is, does a new member who goes straight to captain have to do all the stuff 2nd Lts have to do and such? Or can they promote and do things as if they had been a captain for 3 years already?

Yup. Those who get advanced promos still need to do all the PD stuff they missed, plus the stuff they need for the next promotion. So a CFI who gets Capt immediately after joining still needs to complete everything, level1-3 to get Maj in 3 years.

[Short Field]

The advanced promotion just gives you a jump on satisfing the time in grade requirements for the grades you jumped.   The PD stuff is really important if you want to really understand how CAP works and attending SLS, CLC, UCC, and RSC also lets you establish contacts with people in other units.

CAPR 35-5 does not define "CFI" as multi-engine or single engine qualified or as fixed or rotor qualified.  It just says CFI. 

Always go for anything you think you might be qualified for - make someone else tell you no, don't tell yourself no.  A former flying sergeant (a double Ace with kills in WWII and Korea) taught me that.

[RogueLeader]

Yup. Those who get advanced promos still need to do all the PD stuff they missed, plus the stuff they need for the next promotion. So a CFI who gets Capt immediately after joining still needs to complete everything, level1-3 to get Maj in 3 years.

Not quite correct.  Level 1 is required to be promoted over SMwoG.  You could have the prep course and CPPT done soon, but you still have to do the OpSec before any promotion can be approved.

[SJFedor]

Yup. Those who get advanced promos still need to do all the PD stuff they missed, plus the stuff they need for the next promotion. So a CFI who gets Capt immediately after joining still needs to complete everything, level1-3 to get Maj in 3 years.

Not quite correct.  Level 1 is required to be promoted over SMwoG.  You could have the prep course and CPPT done soon, but you still have to do the OpSec before any promotion can be approved.

Well yeah, I expected that level 1 went without saying.

[IceNine]

They do have to fill in all the blanks as you listed Fedor, Re:CAPR35-5 Mission related promotions, section 21.

All promotions in the entire organization regardless of type require Level I of which OPSEC should be an assumed portion.

[CAPOfficer]

Welcome to Civil Air Patrol and the forum Gregg; I hope both turn out to be a wonderful experience for you.

[mynetdude]

Well I knew that CPPT/OPSEC had to be completed if you're going to work with cadets and/or ES so that solves that problem but since lvl1 is required you might as well finish customs and courtesies and so on.

[Hawk200]

Well I knew that CPPT/OPSEC had to be completed if you're going to work with cadets and/or ES so that solves that problem but since lvl1 is required you might as well finish customs and courtesies and so on.

Level I, OPSEC and CPPT are required for everyone. Period. It's not just a matter of working with cadets and ES, everyone is to have those courses.

[Climbnsink]

Thanks everyone.  I think I'll just wait and get rank from TIG or PD.   I'm well overdue for an instrument rating I don't know when that might happen but it will make adding on airplane commercial and cfi relatively easy.  Hopefully I'll have that done before TIG promotion. Couple of generic advancement questions.  I've done CPPT, OPSEC and iiirc Level 1 and maybe 2 as well.   I have everything up to basic GES.  Other than scanner/observer/mp stuff what else should I be looking at?  What is SOS and SLS.  I don't really care to embrace the bureaucratic stuff anymore than I have to, but of course I want to help out and move along.   With this in mind what is next? 
Gregg

[AlphaSigOU]

Thanks everyone.  I think I'll just wait and get rank from TIG or PD.   I'm well overdue for an instrument rating I don't know when that might happen but it will make adding on airplane commercial and cfi relatively easy.  Hopefully I'll have that done before TIG promotion. Couple of generic advancement questions.  I've done CPPT, OPSEC and iiirc Level 1 and maybe 2 as well.   I have everything up to basic GES.  Other than scanner/observer/mp stuff what else should I be looking at?  What is SOS and SLS.  I don't really care to embrace the bureaucratic stuff anymore than I have to, but of course I want to help out and move along.   With this in mind what is next? 
Gregg

For Level II - tech rating in a senior specialty (need that for 1st Lt + 1 yr as a 2d Lt), SLS and complete AFIADL 13 (formerly ECI 13). 1-1/2 years as a 1st Lt and  completion of Level II gets you Capt.

To take SOS (Squadron Officer School - Air Force PME) you must be at least a Capt. Completion of SOS by correspondence will take care of part of your Level IV requirement, or you can opt to go to Region Staff College.

[mynetdude]

Well I knew that CPPT/OPSEC had to be completed if you're going to work with cadets and/or ES so that solves that problem but since lvl1 is required you might as well finish customs and courtesies and so on.

Level I, OPSEC and CPPT are required for everyone. Period. It's not just a matter of working with cadets and ES, everyone is to have those courses.

even if a cadet has no desire to be involved in ES? (we have a few that either have no time or have absolutely no desire to be in CAP in the first place but thats another topic)

It is my understanding that senior members have to have it regardless, and cadet sponsors (AFAIK cadet sponsors weren't required to have OPSEC because they were not involved in missions, but now OPSEC isn't just a mission thing anymore)

And I've talked to the DCC (now that I am Personnel) as far as the DCC is concerned, unless the cadet has their first stripe they don't touch OPSEC, the regulation isn't exactly clear though (or is it?) I know it says every member must have OPSEC and we must comply by April of 2008 (I believe thats the effective date?)

I know where to find the letter, but it doesn't clearly state ALL cadets regardless of grade/ES involvement.

[mynetdude]

Thanks everyone.  I think I'll just wait and get rank from TIG or PD.   I'm well overdue for an instrument rating I don't know when that might happen but it will make adding on airplane commercial and cfi relatively easy.  Hopefully I'll have that done before TIG promotion. Couple of generic advancement questions.  I've done CPPT, OPSEC and iiirc Level 1 and maybe 2 as well.   I have everything up to basic GES.  Other than scanner/observer/mp stuff what else should I be looking at?  What is SOS and SLS.  I don't really care to embrace the bureaucratic stuff anymore than I have to, but of course I want to help out and move along.   With this in mind what is next? 
Gregg

For Level II - tech rating in a senior specialty (need that for 1st Lt + 1 yr as a 2d Lt), SLS and complete AFIADL 13 (formerly ECI 13). 1-1/2 years as a 1st Lt and  completion of Level II gets you Capt.

To take SOS (Squadron Officer School - Air Force PME) you must be at least a Capt. Completion of SOS by correspondence will take care of part of your Level IV requirement, or you can opt to go to Region Staff College.

I'd rather just go to RSC than dabble in boring textbooks. Its no wonder I never completed my ECI-13 (I know they changed the name).  The ECI-13 is 4 volumes, I don't understand how they expect you to know all the stuff that doesn't exactly pertain to CAP (excluding military history, thats important).

Right now my priorities have changed so many times I have totally not even bothered with my ECI-13, I have other agendas that need my explicit attention at the moment.

Edit: quotes keep getting in my way

[ßτε]

even if a cadet has no desire to be involved in ES? (we have a few that either have no time or have absolutely no desire to be in CAP in the first place but thats another topic)

It is my understanding that senior members have to have it regardless, and cadet sponsors (AFAIK cadet sponsors weren't required to have OPSEC because they were not involved in missions, but now OPSEC isn't just a mission thing anymore)

And I've talked to the DCC (now that I am Personnel) as far as the DCC is concerned, unless the cadet has their first stripe they don't touch OPSEC, the regulation isn't exactly clear though (or is it?) I know it says every member must have OPSEC and we must comply by April of 2008 (I believe thats the effective date?)

I know where to find the letter, but it doesn't clearly state ALL cadets regardless of grade/ES involvement.

All members shall take OPSEC, including cadets without the Curry Achievement. When a new member comes in, one of the first things the member needs to do is OPSEC. Soon cadet achievements will be documented in e-services and I am guessing that it will check for OPSEC completion before any achievement or milestone award is approved.

[jeders]

I know where to find the letter, but it doesn't clearly state ALL cadets regardless of grade/ES involvement.

Yes it does, it says every member. Even cadets who don't do ES are members, so it includes them.