hands in the pant pockets

Started by ladyreferee, September 07, 2005, 03:25:33 PM

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ladyreferee

When our cadets come back from encampments, they have all sorts of rules I hadn't known about yet (I've only been in CAP for 9 months).  The latest I've heard is that you can have your hands in your pockets when you are wearing your blues, but not your BDUs.  Another cadet had told me never to have your hands in your pockets.  Which one is correct?
CHERYL K CARROLL, Major, CAP

Matt

Either way, it's unprofessional and sloppy looking.  Your best bet for enforcement is just to ask nicely that the cadets remove their hands from their pockets when you find them doing it.

About the only time that I do it is in Winter with my coat pockets for a quick warm up, but for the most part gloves even take care of that (I have yet to find a pair in which keeps my hands warm).
<a href=mailto:mkopp@ncr.cap.gov> Matthew Kopp</a>, Maj, CAP
Director of Information Technology
<a href=https://www.ncrcap.us.org> North Central Region</a>

MIKE

Quote from: ladyreferee on September 07, 2005, 03:25:33 PM
When our cadets come back from encampments, they have all sorts of rules I hadn't known about yet (I've only been in CAP for 9 months).  The latest I've heard is that you can have your hands in your pockets when you are wearing your blues, but not your BDUs.  Another cadet had told me never to have your hands in your pockets.  Which one is correct?

There is no such rule in CAPM 39-1... A lot of it comes from other services customs or some cases where such standards are specifically spelled out in the uniform regulations... I'll look and see if I can find some... I know I've seen a few examples.

If you want to enforce additional "standards" regarding professional appearance in uniform, it should be in writing in an approved supplement to CAPM 39-1.
Mike Johnston

MIKE

#3
Quote from: AR 670–11–9. (3) While in uniform, personnel will not place their hands in their pockets, except momentarily to place or retrieve
objects. Soldiers will keep uniforms buttoned, zipped, and snapped. ...

AR 670–1 Wear and Appearance of Army Uniforms and Insignia

Quote from: COMDTINST M1020.6E2.A.1. ... Coast Guard personnel must maintain a proper military decorum and present themselves with pride. For example, when walking from point to point, do not smoke, eat, drink, or keep hands in pockets. ...

COMDTINST M1020.6E UNIFORM REGULATIONS

Mike Johnston

Major_Chuck

CAPP 151 'Training' on page 4, Section C  Dress and Personal Appearance.

"...when in uniform you are expected to present a professional image;  this includes things such as walking with hands out of pockets..."

Boils down to image, image, and image.  Did I say image?

To the best of my knowledge, walking around with your hands in your pockets is not allowed in any of the services, ROTC programs, and CAP.




Chuck Cranford
SGT, TNCO VA OCS
Virginia Army National Guard

Pylon

Quote from: Major_Chuck on September 08, 2005, 02:40:53 AM
Boils down to image, image, and image.  Did I say image?

What I think Major Chuck forgot to mention was that it's an image thing.  ;)

While it is spelt out in a rather obscure place in a CAP pamphlet (as quoted above), it's also a good practice for both in and out of CAP.  Stuffing your hands in your pockets and leaving them there just makes you look a bit too relaxed and sloppy - even if you don't intend it to look that way.

If you're looking for something to do with your hands besides letting them hang limply at your sides, try placing them behind your back as you might in a more relaxed parade rest, or place them one over the other in front of you.   

Pockets are for pocket litter (although some would argue nothing should be in your dress blues pockets, again, for that whole image thing).  :)

Hope all of this helps clear up why it's a common practice in CAP and other service branches.
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

MIKE

Quote from: Major_Chuck on September 08, 2005, 02:40:53 AM
CAPP 151 'Training' on page 4, Section C  Dress and Personal Appearance.

"...when in uniform you are expected to present a professional image;  this includes things such as walking with hands out of pockets..."

[darn]... I missed that one.  Was expecting to find something in CAPM 39-1... There really should be something in there IMO... You know, for those people who choose to ignore CAPP 151 because it is just a pamphlet... And hasn't been updated in years.
Mike Johnston

ladyreferee

Boy I love this board!  Quick and sharp answers to obscure answers - I also didn't think to look in the pamphlet - just the manual!  Thanks alot for being there  :D
CHERYL K CARROLL, Major, CAP

Major_Chuck

Don't ask me what made me look at the pamphlets.  The CAP Knowledge base had nothing pertaining to it.

It has been years since I was on active duty but to this day I don't carrying anything in my pockets if I don't have too.  Too much clutter.

When I went through basic training it was drilled into our brains "Don't do anything that will present a negative image of the Air Force while in uniform, to include our appearance." 

CAP as the USAF Auxiliary has to be concious of our image and how we project our selves.  People see an Air Force Uniform and don't make the distinction at first that there is a difference between USAF and CAP. 

Chuck Cranford
SGT, TNCO VA OCS
Virginia Army National Guard

MIKE

Just saw this today in a thread on CadetStuff:

Quote from: 96TH AIR FORCE UNIFORM BOARD RESULTS35.  ADD IN AFI 36-2903, "NO HANDS IN POCKET AUTHORIZED"

96TH AIR FORCE UNIFORM BOARD RESULTS
Mike Johnston

ladyreferee

Hey Mike,
  Did you read this?  It's pretty long but I found it about hands in the pants - #35, no hands in pocket authorized!  This is interesting - I can't shave my head, bummer  :D  but I can wear little black stud earrings (#21) and we can have one black PDA, cell phone or pager on our uniform belts (#20).  So, the US flag patch can not be worn on the bdu (#58). Also there was no action taken on sewing your bdu pockets shut - since this is dated June 04, has there been anything on this since? 
  Great job searching! ;)
CHERYL K CARROLL, Major, CAP

MIKE

Quote from: ladyreferee on September 10, 2005, 03:47:59 PM
 Did you read this?  It's pretty long but I found it about hands in the pants - #35, no hands in pocket authorized!  This is interesting - I can't shave my head, bummer  :D  but I can wear little black stud earrings (#21) and we can have one black PDA, cell phone or pager on our uniform belts (#20).  So, the US flag patch can not be worn on the bdu (#58). Also there was no action taken on sewing your bdu pockets shut - since this is dated June 04, has there been anything on this since? 
  Great job searching! ;)

Yeah I read all the approved stuff... Saw the no hands in pockets reference, so I posted it and then read the rest.

A word of caution:  This is stuff that has been approved for Air Force uniforms for wear by Air Force personel... It will probably be a while before some of this will filter down and find it's way into CAPM 39-1 or a policy change thereto.  It would be unwise to assume that you may wear black stud earrings or black rigger belts on the Air Force style CAP uniforms as these changes don't apply to us yet.  This document was posted for information purposes only regarding  changes to Air Force policy and the subject of this thread.
Mike Johnston

ladyreferee

Aw darn!  And I was just itching buy some new ones too.....  thanks for the interesting reading though!
CHERYL K CARROLL, Major, CAP

shorning

Quote from: ladyreferee on September 10, 2005, 03:47:59 PM
...since this is dated June 04, has there been anything on this since? 

Gee Mike, where'd you get that link?!?  :D

But, no, the AF hasn't released any other uniform updates.  The 96th Uniform Board was the most recent.  The AF doesn't hold the board every year.

Pylon

Quote from: shorningThe AF doesn't hold the board every year.

...like CAP?  ::) ;)
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

PKS

Someone mentioned sewing your back pockets shut; when I was in we still had fatigues and I did exactly that.  As a female I never carried anything in my back pockets anyway, and no matter how heavy the starch was, the corners of the back pocket flaps would always curl up.  It drove me nuts and looked like crap so I sewed them shut.  Haven't  thought about that in years, but then I've been out of uniform since 92.

As far as having your hands in your pockets at any time while in uniform, I was always taught no, under any circumstances.  The relaxed parade rest stance has always worked for me.
2Lt. Pamela Skaff
Flight Line Supervisor
PDK Senior Squadron
SER GA 130 "Ready To Roll"

flyguy06

In addition to hands in the pockets. Walking around with bulging pockets also looks unprofessional. We should limit how much stuff we put in our pocktes.

Also, I saw an earlier post and you should NEVER walk ariund with your hands in your PANTS wheather in uniform or not (just a light joke)

MIKE

Quote from: flyguy06 on January 01, 2006, 03:23:58 PM
In addition to hands in the pockets. Walking around with bulging pockets also looks unprofessional. We should limit how much stuff we put in our pocktes.

Don't go nuts though... Like telling personel not to stow their BDU cap in the right or left cargo pocket of their trousers.  ::)

Don't lose sight of the fact that the BDU/DFU is a utility uniform, and that those eleven pockets were put there for a reason.
Mike Johnston

Cam89

Let me ask one thing when do you have time to put you hands in you pockets? If you have time to do that then you need to figure out how to fill that time wisely.
Carrisa Marinshaw
    C/Amn

footballrun21

Quote from: flyguy06 on January 01, 2006, 03:23:58 PM
In addition to hands in the pockets. Walking around with bulging pockets also looks unprofessional. We should limit how much stuff we put in our pocktes.

For general meetings and inspection in BDUs, yes they shoudn't be bulging.  When you're out in the field for ES or at Encampment, etc., you need the storage.  If you are in public on an ES mission, they know you are looking for something so you don't need to look your best.
C/2d Lt. Stephen Pettit, CAP
New Jersey Wing

flyguy06

Well, yes. Obviously no one is going to expect you to be looking sharp in the field. They wont expect you to have a starched uniform or shined boots either. That goes without saying

Nathan

Quote from: footballrun21 on January 02, 2006, 08:13:40 PM
If you are in public on an ES mission, they know you are looking for something so you don't need to look your best.

Actually, you SHOULD be looking your best. I don't see any reason why you wouldn't want to. I mean, if you're best is still somewhat scruffy-looking, it's still your best. If you don't look your best, it signifies laziness on your part.

Just a minor technicality, I suppose, but I didn't want people to get the wrong idea.
Nathan Scalia

The post beneath this one is a lie.

Stephanie Allen

I personally think that when cadets have their hands in their pockets it looks completely unprofessional, but there's no reg on whether or not you're allowed to do so.
C/A1C Allen
Flight Sergeant

Yes, sadly, I'm a Flt Sgt and only an A1C...but hey...its been fun! *tehe* Word of advice from the mouth of my fellow Kenosha cadets: "Cabage...not so good at CADEX!" *tehe*

Marine Corps Gal

I find the pockets extremely helpful when on actual missions, at encampment or at ES Weekends and such (they carry a lot).  However, at meetings and other times when they're empty, I find that they've been strethched out because of this and tend to bulge a little.  ::)
OO-RAH.