CLC Document Discrepancy

[RogueLeader]

I was downloading the Course Materials for CLC, and I noticed that in section 2.4 that the Lesson Plan stated a 45 min duration- compared to the 60 in the Student Guide.  Which is it?

[SarDragon]

Which has the later date?

[jimmydeanno]

I was downloading the Course Materials for CLC, and I noticed that in section 2.4 that the Lesson Plan stated a 45 min duration- compared to the 60 in the Student Guide.  Which is it?

However long it takes for the instructor to effectively teach the lesson...?

[Eclipse]

Unless something has changed, the CLC is still a draft curriculum and there are a fair number of timing issues and typos.

With that said, and including the mistakes, its still 10x's better then the old one.

[RogueLeader]

Which has the later date?

Lesson Plan stated a 45 min duration- compared to the 60 in the Student Guide.

It also states that it should run for 12 to 16 class hours.  The total duration only adds up to 9hrs and 20 min.

[SarDragon]

I'm guessing (w/o looking right now) that you just added up all the lesson times, and nothing else. In most teaching models, a 50 min lesson on the clock comes out to 60 min in the "should run for 12 to 16 class hours" timeframe. There should be a 10 min break for every 50 min of instruction time.

For the 560 min you show, add in the extra 110 min for breaks, and you get 11+ hours. Tack on some slop time for extended discussions, and you've gone well over 12 hrs. It's always better to plan for too much time than not enough.

[RogueLeader]

Here's a rough cut of the time table.


Yes, it will be a loonnnggg day.

[SarDragon]

One day? Whatchoo been drinking/smoking? 

CLC is a two day course, period. Your schedule is totally unrealistic. Five minutes between segments is too short. Two 15 minute breaks is too few and too short.

When do you expect folks to eat and hit the bathroom? How many instructors are you going to have? I, personally, wouldn't teach on that schedule if I had three other people on the teaching team.

Before you go too much farther off the deep end, take a look at AFMAN 36-2236, Guidebook for Air Force Instructors to see how scheduling is done. That schedule of yours would violate the labor laws in most states if it was in a workplace.

[Eclipse]

Here's a rough cut of the time table.


Yes, it will be a loonnnggg day.

You might want to run that bad-boy through a spell check to start.

SLS and/or CLC are defined by regs as a two-day curriculum to avoid exactly what this would do - push people to uncomfortable exhaustion just to check the box.

You're running a 12-hour day without meals?  I think I see 35 minutes for lunch, which unless you're catering means about 10 to eat and the rest to get there and back, and I see nothing for dinner.

The only questions you'll get at 2000 are "are we done yet?"

My Group is hosting an SLS/CLC this weekend, in fact I have to hit the rack for an 0530 wakey.

Run by the regs and with reasonable breaks and meals:

If it starts at 0800 it will run to 14:30 both days.

One of the points of this is the social time during and after for members from different areas to share ideas and see what others are doing.

The rule of thumb for classroom time is 10 minutes breaks for every hour.

[RogueLeader]

I wouldn't be the first one to do a day long Course.

[pixelwonk]

^^Nope.  And like in every crayon box, there's more than one crayon thats none too sharp too.

If it's been asked earlier, I apologize, but exactly why are you doing a one-day CLC?  If all you've got is "I wouldn't be the first one," well... um, have fun storming the castle!

Still, unless your wing is full of no-personality automatons, folks just might appreciate two days, a ten minute break after a class and an hour lunch.  Don't forget, much of the appeal of these classes is the networking that's involved.
Heck, if it was me doing it, I'd even give them an option of doing an hour and a half on Sat if they'd make up the time in the afternoon.

SarDragon would be a good resource to pay attention to with regards to conducting these courses.  Instructing is his thing.  In fact, everyone else who has weighed in has had good points and I'm going to take that to heart when I conduct an SLS this Spring.

But good on ya for doing it in the first place.  This one-day-course thing is going to make your students want to conduct one like you did, want to conduct one way better than you did, or swear off going to these things altogether.

[RogueLeader]

^^Nope.  And like in every crayon box, there's more than one crayon thats none too sharp too.

If it's been asked earlier, I apologize, but exactly why are you doing a one-day CLC?  If all you've got is "I wouldn't be the first one," well... um, have fun storming the castle!

It's to be a Money Saver- either gas or hotel. I'm hoping to get people from all over the Wing, and I would rather not make them spend more money for a hotel room, or billeting fees on post.

Still, unless your wing is full of no-personality automatons, folks just might appreciate two days, a ten minute break after a class and an hour lunch.  Don't forget, much of the appeal of these classes is the networking that's involved.
Heck, if it was me doing it, I'd even give them an option of doing an hour and a half on Sat if they'd make up the time in the afternoon.

SarDragon would be a good resource to pay attention to with regards to conducting these courses.  Instructing is his thing.  In fact, everyone else who has weighed in has had good points and I'm going to take that to heart when I conduct an SLS this Spring.

But good on ya for doing it in the first place.  This one-day-course thing is going to make your students want to conduct one like you did, want to conduct one way better than you did, or swear off going to these things altogether.

I'm hoping for neither.  I hope that they learn, and want to do one for themselves.  This will be my first teaching a lesson in some time.  Needless to say that I'm a little nervous.  Thank you for your suggestions.

Edit: Tags -TA

[RiverAux]

I haven't taught in the new CLC so can't comment on whether the time per class is realistic or not.  However, if you are expecting people from around your wing you've got to figure 1+ hours of travel time each way for those outside the area.  So, you've got 12 hours of class time, plus at least 0.5 hours on each side of that for arrival/leaving (=13 hours) + at least 2 hours of travel time = 15 hours minimum for anyone not in the area.  And that is without having any evening meal. 

I would not recommend this at all. 

[Eclipse]

How about just focusing on people from your area with under an hour transport time? 

My Wing generally runs 3-4 per year, distributed evenly.  Some people like to go to the one(s) further away because of traditions or to meet new people, but we should be offering these all over to give more members instructor / director opportunities and ease of access

BTW - I am 3/4 through the SLS/CLC my group is sponsoring, using the new curriculum, and I also agree that much of the value is the face time and hall-way  contacts.

Its also a great time for members from smaller, less connected units to see what is possible with a little effort and planning.

[RogueLeader]

1st- its a rough cut.  I can certainly change it, and most likely will.
2nd - it was what I was asked to do. 
3rd- if requested by those wishing to attend want 2 days, not a problem for me.

[mikeylikey]

...like in every crayon box, there's more than one crayon thats none too sharp too.

Thats why they included those plastic crayon sharpeners on the BIG boxes of Crayons.  Man, I was so jealous of those kids that showed up on the first day of school with those 180 count boxes of crayons.  Me, I was stuck with the previous years broken mix of crayon crap.   

Which leads me back to topic.....I wish my Wing would run 3 or 4 a year, and have them spread out.  As it stands now a member could end up having to drive upward of 6 hours to attend a CLC.  I think those people should be reimbursed milage for anything over 200 miles!

[Eclipse]

There is also the option to run these courses of consecutive meeting nights at a local squadron.
CAPR 50-17 has the details.  Obviously requires your Wing CC's approval, however I can't see why
people with a real plan would get turned down. The point here is to provide opportunities for our members to learn about CAP and progress in the program.

There is no specific requirement that these are stand-alone 2-day activities.

With that said, the 2-day route is the way to go.

Your best, most efficient and productive use of this is to run concurrent SLS/CLC.

Obviously I can't speak for other wings, but certainly the intent of the program is for qualified individuals (i.e. unit and group cc's) to request authority to run a class in their local area and run it.  Doing it locally will provide your people with a lot more opportunities as staff and directors towards their own L4&5 needs.

Its not rocket science, and anyone interested is welcome to the schedule spreadsheets and slip-streamed curriculum power points we've put together.

The ones we use include the videos directly in the presentations.

All you do is edit the slides with the respective presenters names and GOOOOOO!

[arajca]

If you read the "How conducted" paragraph on CLC, you may notice it starts with:
Wings should conduct a CLC at least once a year.
Not units.

On the one-day SLS or CLC, the Knowledge Base says:
No. The Squadron Leadership School (SLS) course is designed for 2 training days of no less than a total of 12 hours of instruction. Training can be spread out over several days or two weekends so long as the 12 hours of instruction requirement is met. No less than 6 hours of instruction should be spent on the three mission elements. Active duty, Reserve, and National Guard military members with teaching experience may augment the faculty for this course.

Same for the Corporate Learning Course (CLC). The course consists of 2 training days of no less than 12 total hours of instruction. Training can be spread out over several meetings so long as the 12 hours of instruction requirement is met. CLC course directors are encouraged to be flexible in covering the mission support functions using a combination of instructional methods and media. However, no less than 6 hours of instruction should be spent on the three mission elements.

Credit should not be granted for individuals only attending one day. The course director might grant credit if a student completed 12 hours of a typical two day 16 hour course or completed 12 hours of instruction of a course spread out over several weeks, but that would be a judgment call by the course director based on the circumstances.

[Eclipse]

If you read the "How conducted" paragraph on CLC, you may notice it starts with:
Wings should conduct a CLC at least once a year.
Not units.

It doesn't say "not units".

c. How Conducted. Wings should conduct a CLC at least once a year. The course consists of 2 training days of no
less than 12 total hours of instruction. Training can be spread out over several meetings so long as the 12 hours of instruction
requirement is met. CLC course directors are encouraged to be flexible in covering the mission support functions using a
combination of instructional methods and media. However, no less than 6 hours of instruction should be spent on the three
mission elements.

The wing (CC) is the certifying body, and may or may not delegate the execution of these activities to qualified members. My wing does, through the PDO.

Once permission is obtained, the entirety of the activity can be conducted at a squadron, or anywhere else there are enough members to justify the effort.

In most cases, getting things done starts with someone's initiative and asking for permission.

[RogueLeader]

Please note that the Wing ODO has signed off on this, we asked if we could host it and she said yes.  Also, the CLC has been completely redesigned, so this will be an interesting experiment to say the least.

[RiverAux]

ODO? 

Don't see how they have the authority to approve a departure from a very specific regulation requiring a 2 day class. 

[Eclipse]

The reg doesn't say "will" it says "should".

As to what an "ODO" is, I have no idea, unless the guy in charge of Professional Development is a shape-shifter.

Most states have a DPD, as in Director of Professional Development.

The only person who can approve or disapprove whether a specific CLC or similiar class meets the requirments is the Wing CC, if he signs the Form 11, its a class.

[Camas]

The reg doesn't say "will" it says "should".

And a wing could get nailed big time at the next CI (compliance inspection) for failure to hold an annual course; both SLS and CLC.  BTDT.

[RogueLeader]

The reg doesn't say "will" it says "should".

And a wing could get nailed big time at the next CI (compliance inspection) for failure to hold an annual course; both SLS and CLC.  BTDT.

That was referring to a 1 or 2 day course, not on how often they are held.  If they are being held less than one a year, you bet that they need to get a "finding" on the CI.

[SarDragon]

I still don't understand, after all the information that you have been given here, why you still want to do this class in one day. It's just not worth the savings of one night's lodging to subject your students (and instructors) to that environment.

Student interest wanes at about the six or seven hour point. Anything presented from that point on goes in and out without retention.

All personnel attending will have a drive to and from the class, making even longer days. I'd sure hate to hear that one of my students or staff wrecked their car because they were too tired to be on the road.

You are allowing zero time for any emergent situations. If there is an equipment failure, classroom problem, or instructor problem, you're stuck.

You are denying the students and staff valuable interaction time outside the classroom. I learned a great deal (as an instructor) at the Saturday night social function, when we all got to exchange ideas, experiences (and war stories), and ask questions in a more relaxed environment.

All in all, presenting CLC or SLS in your proposed format is a disservice to the students and staff, and a good way to sour everyone on spending their weekends doing Professional Development courses.