CAP-Agency vs CAP-Club - the real issue in Iowa

[Eclipse]

^ you guys are all under the assumption that this was the result of a dart thrown against a bulletin board with no consideration whatsoever as to the consequences.

The reality sandwich may be that Region or NHQ did / does not agree with the steps and measures taken in the "Iowa Experiment" and this is correcting it.

[NEBoom]

^ you guys are all under the assumption that this was the result of a dart thrown against a bulletin board with no consideration whatsoever as to the consequences.

The reality sandwich may be that Region or NHQ did / does not agree with the steps and measures taken in the "Iowa Experiment" and this is correcting it.

I met and/or spoke with the leadership of the "Iowa experiment" several times over the last year.  There was plenty of flexibility in both them and their approach to make any "corrections" that might have been necessary.  The NCR/CC could (and should) have been paying closer attention to what was going on in Iowa Wing, and he could (and should) have been giving them guidance to correct any issues or concerns.  I am very confident that any such guidance would have been happily received.  Resorting to the organizational equivalent of theater nuclear weapons  wasn't necessary.

Of course this is just my opinion.

[Eclipse]

If you're headed in the completely wrong direction, being flexible about lane choice isn't really going to matter much.

[isuhawkeye]

If this wing has been on a collision course for five years why wait until today to change things.  Why not be in the mix, and asking the hard questions the moment these concerns were brought to your attention. 

[ZigZag911]

If you're headed in the completely wrong direction, being flexible about lane choice isn't really going to matter much.

Most experienced senior people (wing & region leadership) with whom I have spoken see at least some valuable facets to the Iowa Experiment.

Evidently you are dead set against it.

How about explaining why?

[Eclipse]

If this wing has been on a collision course for five years why wait until today to change things.  Why not be in the mix, and asking the hard questions the moment these concerns were brought to your attention. 

Because up until now, CAPFLT001 supported the changes.

This is the risk you take when you make sweeping changes without going through the process.

[NEBoom]

If this wing has been on a collision course for five years why wait until today to change things.  Why not be in the mix, and asking the hard questions the moment these concerns were brought to your attention. 

Because up until now, CAPFLT001 supported the changes.

This is the risk you take when you make sweeping changes without going through the process.

No, that just points up a major problem with CAP at the National level.  We're all subject to abrupt changes when commanders change.  Often without reason or warning (and Iowa's not the only place this sort of thing has happened, by the way).

Heck of a way to run a railroad...

[Eclipse]

If you're headed in the completely wrong direction, being flexible about lane choice isn't really going to matter much.

Most experienced senior people (wing & region leadership) with whom I have spoken see at least some valuable facets to the Iowa Experiment.

Evidently you are dead set against it.

How about explaining why?

We have all picked apart the details on the plan, and spoken our piece, I'm not starting that again, use search and you'll find it.

I am far from "dead set against it" - as you say, some aspects such as professionalizing the corps and raising member expectations have value.

But when you stray that far from the real program, alieanate as many people as you embrace, and create an agency which is dependant on a few specific personalities or it collapses, what have you really accomplished but a few years of a good ride?

[ZigZag911]

The "real program" as you call it is, in my admittedly limited field of observation, resulting in senior members that are inadequately prepared for the duties they take on....there is sparse sense of esprit de corps, little real unity, too much politicking, too much parochialism and isolationism, too much "us versus them" mentality, too little teamwork and cooperation, too much of a "what's in it for me" attitude.

I could go on, but we're all painfully familiar with the problems....it's just that some actually prefer to live like this, and others put on blinders, because heaven forfend AP change in any genuine way to meet contemporary needs!

Iowa may not have had a perfect solution, but from the outside looking in, it seems like it was a step in the right direction.

Certainly the processes used were not 'one size fits all wings' -- in fact, Iowa itself probably needed to make some adaptations or adjustments, which I suspect would have happened had there been more time -- but the philosophy, the vision underlying the Iowa Experiment, might well have transformed CAP into a real asset for America.

I'm not sure we can justifiably claim to be that right now.

[JayT]

The "real program" as you call it is, in my admittedly limited field of observation, resulting in senior members that are inadequately prepared for the duties they take on....there is sparse sense of esprit de corps, little real unity, too much politicking, too much parochialism and isolationism, too much "us versus them" mentality, too little teamwork and cooperation, too much of a "what's in it for me" attitude.

I could go on, but we're all painfully familiar with the problems....it's just that some actually prefer to live like this, and others put on blinders, because heaven forfend AP change in any genuine way to meet contemporary needs!

Iowa may not have had a perfect solution, but from the outside looking in, it seems like it was a step in the right direction.

Certainly the processes used were not 'one size fits all wings' -- in fact, Iowa itself probably needed to make some adaptations or adjustments, which I suspect would have happened had there been more time -- but the philosophy, the vision underlying the Iowa Experiment, might well have transformed CAP into a real asset for America.

I'm not sure we can justifiably claim to be that right now.

Besides the 100 plus lives we save, the ELTs we find, the DR ribbons, the aerospace education, the leadership training we give young people.....etc etc.

I'm not saying the program is perfect, but just because you guys in Iowa don't get to play National Guardsmen anymore doesn't mean that the program is worth less.

[ZigZag911]

Mr Themann, I am assuredly not dismissing the good CAP does as trivial or meaningless....but there are real, deep-seated problems.

And, by the way, in case I have not made it clear, I'm not an Iowan.....my home is in New Jersey!

So I have no personal stake in what they did or are doing in Iowa....but, I must say, I find it rather dismissive of you to characterize it as 'playing National Guardsman'.....CAP was a true partner in Iowa emergency services operations; whether that will continue under their new wing commander remains to be seen; it will be interesting to watch, as well as instructive, to see if their new CC finds any of the reforms worth keeping.

[JayT]

Mr Themann, I am assuredly not dismissing the good CAP does as trivial or meaningless....but there are real, deep-seated problems.

And, by the way, in case I have not made it clear, I'm not an Iowan.....my home is in New Jersey!

So I have no personal stake in what they did or are doing in Iowa....but, I must say, I find it rather dismissive of you to characterize it as 'playing National Guardsman'.....CAP was a true partner in Iowa emergency services operations; whether that will continue under their new wing commander remains to be seen; it will be interesting to watch, as well as instructive, to see if their new CC finds any of the reforms worth keeping.

Then we agree sir. And I apologize if I came off as dismissive.

I just believe it was a mistake to undertake such a major reorganization of the program to do something we should already be doing. And, as a very recent former cadet, it looked like it was sometimes at the expense of the CP.

As I said previously, I believe this entire thread is off base.

[TDHenderson]

ZigZag911,

To quote you from your post above, "CAP was a true partner in Iowa emergency services operations", you are absolutely correct.  CAP WAS a true partner.  That partnership is no more.  CAP has lost it's seat in the State EOC thanks to the actions of CAP civilian leadership.

Sad days indeed.

[cyclone]

Sad days indeed...

http://isuhawkeye.typepad.com/halbrook_associatescom/2008/01/cap-and-the-sta.html

[davedove]

Instead of grieving (or celebrating depending on your point of view), this whole situation should be a valuable gold mine of experience for the rest of CAP.  Those involved should summarize what did and didn't work and summarize it for the benefit of everyone.  If good things were done, let everyone know.  Likewise, if something bad happened, let that be known as well.

Nothing is a complete failure as long as something is learned from it.

[JayT]

ZigZag911,

To quote you from your post above, "CAP was a true partner in Iowa emergency services operations", you are absolutely correct.  CAP WAS a true partner.  That partnership is no more.  CAP has lost it's seat in the State EOC thanks to the actions of CAP civilian leadership.

Sad days indeed.

Civilian leadership? We're all civilians here, aren 't we? Are you talking about the Region Commander? Because I think he wears the same uniform as anyone.

[TDHenderson]

Civilian leadership? We're all civilians here, aren 't we? Are you talking about the Region Commander? Because I think he wears the same uniform as anyone.

True.  I guess my choice of words stems from my hope that something like this would not have happened when we were the Auxiliary and not the auxiliary like now.

[Eclipse]

True.  I guess my choice of words stems from my hope that something like this would not have happened when we were the Auxiliary and not the auxiliary like now.

Trying to separate the Auxiliary from the auxiliary is what gets a lot of people in trouble.

They are one and the same, ever after. 

This is the mystery of our service.

[isuhawkeye]

[Redacted at the request of the poster]

-DCP

[CadetProgramGuy]

The new wing leadership has offered a clean slate, and a request for me to name my assignment.  I appreciate their willingness to pass along the olive branch that I was not able to offer them.

While I did consider their request, i did however ask to remain inactive for the time being while I complete class.

IOW....Wait and see.