Award or not to Award

[SAR-EMT1]

Are you or anyone you know of eligible for a 'major award' - ComCom, Lifesaving, MSM, SMV, BMV etc...
but have either refused to submit paperwork or is just not interested in getting the item?

Lets say a guy has run an encampment for a decade and doesnt have a single thing on his ribbon rack to show for it. Or a gal who did CPR on a child shrugged off the attention with an aw-shucks and went about her life.

(hope I made the question clear, here is a personal example)

In my profession I get paid to do sometimes foolish things in order to save lives and protect property. This includes running into fires, shocking people with electricity, racing like hell to the hospital through heavy traffic etc... I meet the criteria for several awards many times over. BUT, the important thing is that I get paid to do this.

But Ive also been off duty and pulled folks from burning cars/ administered CPR etc...

Should I submit the paperwork or not?
Ive usually thought that I shouldnt, as even off duty, its something Im used to. (... heck I love it)
I dont even know if I would be eligible for any CAP decoration given my job, and by no means am I a glory hound or medal seeker. - Im eligible for Captain but wont accept it til Im older-

But I had a newer SM ask me about it at the last meeting I went to. He seemed a bit put off/disappointed/disturbed when I told him I considered it "all in the average day"

Not saying I am going to submit the forms just want to hear opinions.

[Tubacap]

I don't know the actual regulation on who can do what, but you may want to go back to the SM and say, "Hey, I don't consider this something outside my normal day, but if you do, put me in for the award."  I understand your hesitation to put yourself in for an award, but at the same time, to him, you've done something noteworthy.  Having him/her put you in for the award will give them the experience of doing some CAP administration, give them a feeling of accomplishment, and get you a ribbon on your rack!  Seems like a win-win to me.

[O-Rex]

In the days of old, knights never heralded their own deeds. . . . .

If a member is eligible for a major award and isn't recommended for one, that's a failure of the chain-of-command, and by their peers.

[Dragoon]

Back when I was on the Wing awards committee, we went round and round about giving out lifesaving awards to folks whose job description included lifesaving (EMTs, policemen, lifeguards, doctors, nurses).

We finally decided that if you saved someone's life while serving in that public service position, and that your employer chose not to give you some special award for it, we'd follow suit.  It was just your job, no CAP ribbon.

But if you did it outside of work, then it counted. 

This wasn't an easy call, but someone pointed out that our member who was a ER doc could earn several CAP lifesaving awards every week....

[Pylon]

In the days of old, knights never heralded their own deeds. . . . .

If a member is eligible for a major award and isn't recommended for one, that's a failure of the chain-of-command, and by their peers.

Perhaps so, but that failure is often widespread in CAP.  Most of the time, if you want an award or feel you deserve one, you'll be the only person who'd put you in for one.  Which is why so many deserving folks go on serving with the same recognition as the SM who shows up once every few months for a meeting and disappears again.

[DogCollar]

Our Regional Commander says that every member should keep an active, up-to-date "I love me file."  Said file would keep accurate record of award and promotion eligibility, so that a member can start their own award/promotion process.  I don't have a "I love me file," and I don't plan on starting one.  Frankly, awards and promotions are not MY motivation (there's nothing wrong if it's YOUR motivation...I'm not making ANY judgement!!)  Serving my country and my community is an honor...getting to work with terrific officers and cadets is a pleasure...using my skills and training to help others is a blessing to me.

All my personal motivations aside, if you believe that the only way you will receive recognition that you have earned and desire, then by all means, submit the paperwork.

[Eclipse]

Awards and promotions may not be a person's specific motivation for participation, but failure to receive them, while others around you do, may be a significant DEMOTIVATOR as time goes by.

All it takes is one or two valleys of enthusiasm (we all get them) while at the same time seeing somebody less involved getting some award you probably deserve as well (but didn't "put in for") to extinguish your fire.

[mikeylikey]

^ spot on. 

[bosshawk]

Personal satisfaction and the occasional award are about the only way we in CAP get any positive feedback for what we do.  It is apparent to me that very few of the folks in leadership positions in CAP ever go the extra two feet(not a mile) to give awards to those who do things deserving of the award.  Guess that the 10 or 15 minutes that it takes to fill out a Form 120 is just too much trouble.

I had the pleasure of sitting at the banquet at our recent Wing Conference and hear the names of every one of my CD staff read out for Commanders Commendations.  No other Wing staff section or Group staff(we have seven groups) even came close.  Now-----that was satisfaction to me!!  The feedback that I have gotten from my troops is also a point of satisfaction.

If you are in a position to recommend someone for an award, PM me and I will be glad to help you with the verbage on the 120.

Awards in CAP cost absolutely nothing, but they sure go a long way in making all this Mickey Mouse worth it.

[DogCollar]

Awards and promotions may not be a persons specific motivation for participation, but failure to receive the, while others around you do, may be a significant DEMOTIVATOR as time goes by.

All it takes is one or two valleys of enthusiasm (we all get them) while at the same time seeing somebody less involved getting some award you probably deserve as well (but didn't "put in for") to extinguish your fire.

I hear what you're saying...however, I manage my "valleys of enthusiasm" pretty well.  I don't and won't recommend my approach for anyone else.  I will celebrate and honor the achievements of others (especially cadets!!)  The way I feel "rewarded" is when members of my squadron trust me with personal information and issues.  I feel rewarded when I am included in things and NOT set aside because I am the Chaplain.  I feel rewarded when my squadron commander seeks my advice and/or help with matters of importance.  I REALLY feel rewarded when cadets tell me they look forward to the discussions we have in Moral Leadership, and I usually get 100% of seniors attending and participating.

[chiles]

I hear what you're saying...however, I manage my "valleys of enthusiasm" pretty well.  I don't and won't recommend my approach for anyone else.  I will celebrate and honor the achievements of others (especially cadets!!)  The way I feel "rewarded" is when members of my squadron trust me with personal information and issues.  I feel rewarded when I am included in things and NOT set aside because I am the Chaplain.  I feel rewarded when my squadron commander seeks my advice and/or help with matters of importance.  I REALLY feel rewarded when cadets tell me they look forward to the discussions we have in Moral Leadership, and I usually get 100% of seniors attending and participating.

I have a few seniors (and even a few cadets) who work with me at the squadron who feel the same way you do. As a DCC, I tell my seniors that it's important to wear their ribbons (properly) and to receive recognition for work because it sets a good example to the cadets. I'm not interested in making cadets see that wearing awards is what matters but I do want them to see that good work is rewarded and I want them to have an unmitigated view of what qualifies as good work. Recognizing this through an award helps achieve this goal and seeing other members (even senior members) getting rewarded gives too many of my cadets motivation to ignore.

[Flying Pig]

I was in that very position.  As a deputy, I have done many things that could have earned me the Life Saving Medal.  But never bothered to mention it becaue I am placed in those positions.  If its in the normal scope of your duty, than you shouldnt get it.  However, that being said, if your agency takes the step to recognize you, than I think CAP should as well.

I earned the Medal of Valor and Life Saving Medal as a Police Officer.  Well, the only way any finds out about these things is...well....if people find out.  When I performed the act, there was nobody from CAP around.   I brought my Sq. Comm the newspaper article, and the citation I had recieved from work.  I was a little embarrassed, but other people earn the medals and Im sure a few of them had to bring it to someones attention.  It isnt you awarding it to yourself, you are just submitting the paperwork.  The awards are designed to recognize people.  I say let the process work.  As a commander, I want people to bring this stuff to my attention.

In my case, everything was provided, but I later learned the Commander basically, never got around to mailing anything off and later left CAP.  And my paperwork fell into an abyss of an abandoned desk.  I will say, I didnt think I would be, but I was disappointed.  I think its a personal decision that has to be made for each person.   

[RiverAux]

Personally, I don't believe CAP should give awards out for actions that were not directly related to CAP service. 

[Flying Pig]

So awards should only be earned while on CAP missions or when directly involved in a CAP activity?  So the cadet "off-duty" who runs into a burning building while walking home from school should not be included?

The Marines and Navy have the Navy and Marine Corps Medal, which is specifically for acts of heroism/bravery outside of duty or when not in combat.  I served with a Marine who won the medal jumping into a river and saving some kids while on leave.

I disagree.   I am a CAP member in or out of uniform.  It adds to the character of CAP and its members when we answer the call above and beyond both on and off "duty" and are publically recognized for those actions.  We dont think of medals when it hits the fan, but it can be a motivator, and in some cases, ease some pain, when the smoke clears.

[Major Carrales]

Personally, I don't believe CAP should give awards out for actions that were not directly related to CAP service. 

Unless it was a specially designated award for that purpose, sort of a CITIZENSHIP award.  I can see the life saving one, however, I generally agree.

[RiverAux]

So awards should only be earned while on CAP missions or when directly involved in a CAP activity?  So the cadet "off-duty" who runs into a burning building while walking home from school should not be included?

Thats right.  There are various sorts of awards for lifesaving issued by other organizations or government entities that often apply. 

[IceNine]

Back to the original question and some of the answers here.  If you are acting on your paid position 39-3 is very clear that you are only allowed 1 Award for those acts during your entire career with CAP.

So for instance you save 8000 lives being a P-God, and you are only eligible for 1 lifesaving ribbon.

you save  life as a Guy walking down the street (who happens to know where to stick a needle in my chest to get rid of the air) and you are eligible for 1 LSA or a BMV or SMV..

[Gunner C]

Our Regional Commander says that every member should keep an active, up-to-date "I love me file."  Said file would keep accurate record of award and promotion eligibility, so that a member can start their own award/promotion process.  I don't have a "I love me file," and I don't plan on starting one.  Frankly, awards and promotions are not MY motivation (there's nothing wrong if it's YOUR motivation...I'm not making ANY judgement!!)  Serving my country and my community is an honor...getting to work with terrific officers and cadets is a pleasure...using my skills and training to help others is a blessing to me.

All my personal motivations aside, if you believe that the only way you will receive recognition that you have earned and desire, then by all means, submit the paperwork.

I've gotta say that I find her attitude kinda distasteful.  Yes, everyone should keep their own records, but being the first to put yourself in for an award is really unprofessional, at least from a RM perspective.

There's too many people who only sing one note:  me me me me me

What happened to selfless service?  Community/country before self?  We had a captain who put himself in for a bronze star.  It was laughed out of consideration.  Someone found a copy of it, made more copies, and posted it around the unit.  He was regarded as someone who was only looking out for himself and couldn't be trusted.  He never made major.

I don't know how one gets credit for heroism when it's not known by the chain of command.  Its delicate - but when I was a commander, I made sure that the two members in my unit who saved lives were recognized.  One with a BMV and another with a life saving award.

[Eclipse]

I don't know how one gets credit for heroism when it's not known by the chain of command.  Its delicate - but when I was a commander, I made sure that the two members in my unit who saved lives were recognized.  One with a BMV and another with a life saving award.

That's the problem, though - some commanders "can't be bothered", have not the first clue how to submit the forms, or are so disconnected from their members they don't even know what they are doing.

There's also the "certificate of appreciation syndrome" - you can bulk order these from NHQ and fill them out all day on your PC without having to go through the hassle of a comm comm.

In a lot of cases in CAP, if you don't ask, you'll never get anything, decoration, promotion, or qualification.

Personally, I suffer from "good intentions syndrome" - lists of people who deserve decorations and I can never seem to get around to submitting them timely.   

[Smokey]

I know what you are saying SAR-EMT1 & Flying Pig.   I too am in law enforcement. Since being in CAP I've done a few things that in CAP would get me an atta-boy. The most memorable was doing CPR on a 2yr old who drowned. On my arrival-no pulse or respirations. Did the CPR thing then turned her over to paramedics when they arrived. She spent a week in the hospital but no lasting damage. Happened between Christmas & New Years a coupe of years ago.  BEST Christmas gift I ever got and one heck of a way to celebrate the new year with the knowledge I saved her life.  I never even thought of putting in for a CAP award.....just doing what I do naturally.

[W3ZR]

So awards should only be earned while on CAP missions or when directly involved in a CAP activity?  So the cadet "off-duty" who runs into a burning building while walking home from school should not be included?

The first question I would answer yes, except in a few of circumstances.

1. Who he/she saved has a tie to the CAP program, Member, Spouse, Child, etc.

2. The lifesaving skill or heroic gesture the Member performed somehow relates
back to CAP.  I.E. Performing CPR, bandaging a serious wound, ETC...

3. Whatever heroic gesture he/she does he gets positive press for CAP.
" I learned the skills to ... by my membership in the Civil Air Patrol".

As far as running into a burning building?
No one in street clothes should go into a burning house.
I have only done it in proper turn out gear, and even then it sucks.
So ... first kick his/her a## (figuratively of course), then give him/her a lifesaving medal.

As far as the "bling" factor, it is important to make sure those under you get
proper credit, and having your members achievements recognized can do a lot of
good for the morale of the organization.

"Finds" and other achievment awards are not just for the person earning them,
but for the mentors and instructors that taught them the skills, so they should
also want their protégés properly credited.

I will be glad just to see my membership ribbon, I went through Level 1 twenty
years ago and never saw a thing, but I know this Administration is much more on the ball.

[SAR-EMT1]

Thanks for the thoughts folks.