What was this Uniform?

[Pylon]

And I've seen may a picture of Nimitz without a uniform at all, standing on the deck of a ship.

That may be because of Chester Nimitz's lifetime appointment to Fleet Admiral by Congress.  Thus, even though he retired the Chief of Naval Operations post in  1947, he technically remained on active duty with full pay and benefits for life.  Would you want to wear your uniform every day, even after you wanted to retire? 

[riffraff]

This is not a new phenomenon, IIRC all of the now 5 stars had their own variations of whatever uniform they chose to wear.  And I've seen may a picture of Nimitz without a uniform at all, standing on the deck of a ship.

True, general officers have always had latitude with how they dressed. Different matter entirely when these same guys start playing at fashion committee chairman/chief designer for their entire organizations.

How much money is USAF dumping into the Hap Arnold uniform only to end up with essentially the same uniform that was used from 1949 thru the 1990s? I don't know if things have changed much but Class A uniforms tended to only be worn upon graduation from BMT/OTS and maybe once or twice a year thereafter.

[Hawk200]

I don't know if things have changed much but Class A uniforms tended to only be worn upon graduation from BMT/OTS and maybe once or twice a year thereafter.

That's about the rate I wore mine in ten years of active duty. In a way, ironic that we would have a uniform that is so rarely needed.

[riffraff]

IMO, the problem with all the service dress jackets is that they're impractical in their design. By this, I mean the skirt of the jacket. You can't sit with it on or else it gets wrinkled.

A modified version of the Ike-style jacket (longer in torso) would be much better suited for daily use, considering the amount of time most folks spend sitting these days. No change for placement of badging.

The service dress uniform was designed to be a field uniform -- i.e. the pockets were intended to hold things.

[Major Carrales]

The service dress uniform was designed to be a field uniform -- i.e. the pockets were intended to hold things.

This is correct, thsi idea to add pockets to the tunic began around the time of the Spanish American War and evolved into the WWI uniform with the high collar.  As the nature of warfare changed due to paradigm shifts, such as the "layering" concept where soldiers addressed winter conditions with layering and khaki/tan uniforms for desert climates, there began the development of "field" and "dress" uniforms following WWII and Korea.

Service Dress has fallen into limited use because of the tendency of society to be less formal.  While men of the early 20th century wore suits (even to Baseball games), their children and granchildren elected to dress down.  Thus, in environments that would have seen a suit or shirt and tie in 1935-1965, we see persons in tee shirts and golf shirts today.

Also, filed uniforms are being worn in environments that were traditionally Service Dress environments (i.e. combat and field uniforms being used in Congressional Testimony).  Ironically, a legislator I talked to finds that practice somewhat disrespectful.  He maintains that service dress is more appropriate for that sort of environment.  Field dress is sort of like wearing work clothes to church.  I don't know how wide spread that type of thinking is.  I also understand that service men and women do so to remain in a "combat mindset."  You tell me?

The McPeak idea does seem to have been a "sign of things to come" en re a change in USAF culture.  Thing is, many people have a more traditional and nostalgic attachment to what a military uniform looks like. 

[BuckeyeDEJ]

That was NOT a test uniform....that WAS the uniform until Mc Peak went bye bye and the new commander changed things back.

It WAS a test uniform when I saw it. The sleeve rank never made it past the wear tests. They called the finished uniform the "retrofit" because it added epaulets and officer sleeve rank back, as well as the "U.S." for all personnel.

McPeak and a bunch of others, as high-ranking people always do, got their hands on the new stuff, so it's no wonder you're seeing general-officer photos with them. But they never were a regulation uniform the way you see McPeak wearing it in the above photo.

[Major Carrales]

That was NOT a test uniform....that WAS the uniform until Mc Peak went bye bye and the new commander changed things back.

It WAS a test uniform when I saw it. The sleeve rank never made it past the wear tests. They called the finished uniform the "retrofit" because it added epaulets and officer sleeve rank back, as well as the "U.S." for all personnel.

McPeak and a bunch of others, as high-ranking people always do, got their hands on the new stuff, so it's no wonder you're seeing general-officer photos with them. But they never were a regulation uniform the way you see McPeak wearing it in the above photo.

I wonder how long he would have kept it in that configuration, if it had caught on, after the first reporter at the Pentagon called him "Admiral" or "Commodore."  Honestly, if I didn't know better, I might think he was (at first glance) a Commodore in the Merchant Marine.

Apologies to General McPeak, but that uniform was too much and too far off the mark. 

[lordmonar]

It WAS a test uniform when I saw it. The sleeve rank never made it past the wear tests. They called the finished uniform the "retrofit" because it added epaulets and officer sleeve rank back, as well as the "U.S." for all personnel.

Sorry sir...but I think you are mistaken.  The sleeve rank did make it to production...it just did not last long.  The "retrofit" was the kit they made to add the epaulets for all the service coats that officers were wearing when Fogleman came on board.

[JayT]

It WAS a test uniform when I saw it. The sleeve rank never made it past the wear tests. They called the finished uniform the "retrofit" because it added epaulets and officer sleeve rank back, as well as the "U.S." for all personnel.

Sorry sir...but I think you are mistaken.  The sleeve rank did make it to production...it just did not last long.  The "retrofit" was the kit they made to add the epaulets for all the service coats that officers were wearing when Fogleman came on board.

Would you by any chance have a picture of the enlisted version of it?

[lordmonar]

It WAS a test uniform when I saw it. The sleeve rank never made it past the wear tests. They called the finished uniform the "retrofit" because it added epaulets and officer sleeve rank back, as well as the "U.S." for all personnel.

Sorry sir...but I think you are mistaken.  The sleeve rank did make it to production...it just did not last long.  The "retrofit" was the kit they made to add the epaulets for all the service coats that officers were wearing when Fogleman came on board.

Would you by any chance have a picture of the enlisted version of it?

The enlisted version is exactly like what we are wearing now minus the "U.S." circles and the name tag.

The O version used the same basic coat but added the sleeve rings for rank.

[lordmonar]

Here's a link to the enlisted version of the TM uniform

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Gary_R._Pfingston.jpg

[JohnKachenmeister]

The Navy-style sleeve rank did make it into the regs, as did the general officer shoulder boards with the two longitudinal stripes.

As I recall, it lasted about a year, maybe less.  The Army guys all laughed at AF officers, telling them they looked like squids. 

We should not have laughed so loud.  They're laughing at us now that the Army has to wear the "Monica Lewinski Memorial" black berets!

[billford1]

The Army Rangers may not have laughed when they had to change from b;ack berets to tan.

[PHall]

The Navy-style sleeve rank did make it into the regs, as did the general officer shoulder boards with the two longitudinal stripes.

As I recall, it lasted about a year, maybe less.  The Army guys all laughed at AF officers, telling them they looked like squids. 

It lasted just over a year, then General Mc Peak got fired as Chief of Staff and was replaced by General Fogelman who promptly reversed many of General Mc Peak's uniform decisions.
The current Service Dress uniform is just about the last "Mc Peak" uniform still around.
And even that is now in the process of being replaced.

[JohnKachenmeister]

The Army Rangers may not have laughed when they had to change from b;ack berets to tan.

Nope.  The Rangers didn't think it was funny at all.

[ddelaney103]

The Army Rangers may not have laughed when they had to change from b;ack berets to tan.

Nope.  The Rangers didn't think it was funny at all.

The question is: did any of them quit over it?

Most of the really cranky types were former Rangers, like that march guy.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I don't know if any quit, but Rangers are not normally quitters.

Ranger School WILL make you a little cranky.

[PHall]

The biggest source of complaints about the Rangers having to switch to the Tan berets seemed to be from former/retired Rangers.
The one's serving at the time just saluted, said "yes sir" and got on with it.

Just like you'd expect a professional to do.

[Major Carrales]

The biggest source of complaints about the Rangers having to switch to the Tan berets seemed to be from former/retired Rangers.
The one's serving at the time just saluted, said "yes sir" and got on with it.

Just like you'd expect a professional to do.

Well said. 

[ColonelJack]

^^ Which causes me to wonder ... when the Army goes back to blue and reinstates regular wear of the service cap, what becomes of the beret?  Will it still be worn with the new ACU?

Jack