GES 116 Exam

[stillamarine]

Anyone know if the 116 test can be adminstered on paper and then put into Eservices or does it have to be done online nowadays?

We are presenting it in a classroom setting to our cadets and if we have them take a test on paper, we know they all do it compared to hoping they do it when they get home.

Thanks

Tim

[floridacyclist]

We try to have several computers available so they can line up and take it online. We used to give them the paper test and then let them input their answers, cutting back on actual computer time, but they prohibited the tests from being printed.

[stillamarine]

Thanks Gene

[mikeylikey]

Anyone remeber when it was all on paper, and we had to "trust" the person grading the test.  Wow......did it like that for 30+ years, don't see why we can't do it that way now. 

[BillB]

About two years ago I asked National if I could download the 116 and 117 tests, they gave an OK, so the paper tests were administered to cadets. However, shortly after that, National made it impossible to download the test. So you may have a hard time getting a paper copy to administer.

[Major Lord]

I think you can still use your "print screen" function to copy anything, can't you?

Major Lord

[jimmydeanno]

While I may not agree with the current methods of taking some of the tests, I don't think it would be appropriate conversation to discuss how to get around them...

[floridacyclist]

Yes it will work...but if you ever try highlighting the test, you will see the following

Printing or copying test prohibited!!!!

Whether you can physically copy it or not (I know of at least 4 ways), the rules say no and as far as I'm concerned our integrity should pretty much agree.

[stillamarine]

Thought I had......I can still pull the test up even though I already took it.

Pull the test up on a laptop, put it on the overhead projector and have them do it that way, take their answers home and put it on the computer, or as we have time use the couple laptops we have available taking turns.

Thoughts?

[SarDragon]

I don't like that. There's still a security issue there, IMHO.

YMMV.

[jeders]

I don't like that. There's still a security issue there, IMHO.

YMMV.

Agreed. If you have the ability to bring it up on a laptop or take it home and enter it into a computer, then you have the ability to have them do it on a computer.

[Thor]

So in this case are paper copies/test administrations illegal per National Regs? If not, I've got a paper version of the 116 (back when you could print them) around somewhere, that I could just scan and put into a PDF for whoever needs it.

[jeders]

So in this case are paper copies/test administrations illegal per National Regs? If not, I've got a paper version of the 116 (back when you could print them) around somewhere, that I could just scan and put into a PDF for whoever needs it.

Is it the up to date one?

[stillamarine]

I don't like that. There's still a security issue there, IMHO.

YMMV.

Agreed. If you have the ability to bring it up on a laptop or take it home and enter it into a computer, then you have the ability to have them do it on a computer.

True,

but we only have about 2 laptops guaranteed to be there, mine and the Squadron's. 12 Cadets....can take a bit of time. Of course, we can tell them to do it at home, and I know we should trust our Cadets to do the right thing, but history has shown that when we ask them to do it on their own, about 50% will do it when told.

As for the security issue, I'm not sure what that would be. If the only people attending the class are registered members, just place answers on the test sheet (T or F multiple choice). What possible security issues could be given away?

Anyways thanks everyone for your input.

[Thor]

So in this case are paper copies/test administrations illegal per National Regs? If not, I've got a paper version of the 116 (back when you could print them) around somewhere, that I could just scan and put into a PDF for whoever needs it.

Is it the up to date one?

Nevermind it's the older one from 2001.

[RogueLeader]

The GES 116 and 117 are both open book.  You are free to have the materials to look through while they take the test.  Even though they are online, they are still bound by CAPR 50-4 section 1-6.  What ever you do DO NOT ALLOW A TEST TO BE TAKEN HOME!!!  Such an action would be a Test Compromise.

Also, pursuant to CAPR 50-4 section 3-1 sub a. quotes:

3-1. Compromise of CAP and AFIADL Test Materials:
a. NO PART OF ANY TEST MATERIALS MAY BE DUPLICATED OR TRANSCRIBED FOR ANY REASON. This includes test booklets, individual test questions, completed answer sheets, and examination scoring keys. If insufficient copies are available, additional copies must be obtained using the procedures in appropriate regulations. Test materials may not be borrowed from other units. However, with the unit commanders approval, reasonable number of Cadet Leadership and Aerospace Education test booklets may be reproduced to support cadet testing, cadet progression programs, as well as Senior Member Specialty track and Aerospace Yeager Test. NOTE: For test materials reproduced for this purpose, marking, test inventory log, storage, security, administration, destruction and compromise procedures will be handled in accordance with applicable sections of this regulation.

[Eclipse]

but history has shown that when we ask them to do it on their own, about 50% will do it when told.

Then they don't get to play until they do their homework.

Part of this program is personal responsibility.  I guarantee yo most of them will spend time updating their FaceSpace pages...

[RogueLeader]

but history has shown that when we ask them to do it on their own, about 50% will do it when told.

Then they don't get to play until they do their homework.

We had a cadet that wanted to take part in an activity that required GES, but he didn't do it, so he didn't go.  Only himself to blame.

[brasda91]

I just finished creating the step by step directions to complete the 116 and 117 part 1 tests.  I also created a study guide for the 116 for them to utilize right along with the test. 

[stillamarine]

Don't suppose you care to share, Maj?

[isuhawkeye]

I just finished creating the step by step directions to complete the 116 and 117 part 1 tests.  I also created a study guide for the 116 for them to utilize right along with the test.  Wink

Let me know who's from your unit because I don't think I want anyone on my team who needs to be hand held through the 116

Just my $.02

[brasda91]

Don't suppose you care to share, Maj?

I tried but the documents are in Word 2007 and they attach as a .docx and I don't know how to change them to a file that I can attach.  Anybody care to help me out?

[brasda91]

I just finished creating the step by step directions to complete the 116 and 117 part 1 tests.  I also created a study guide for the 116 for them to utilize right along with the test.  Wink

Let me know who's from your unit because I don't think I want anyone on my team who needs to be hand held through the 116

Just my $.02

You must have the smartest cadets in CAP.

I don't mind providing directions.  This way I feel more confident they will complete the test/s.  You can stand up in front of a group and say "Go to blah, blah, blah web address, do this, click on this, enter this, and so forth.  But unless they use the computer every day, and they are familiar with the website, they're not going to understand where to go to take the tests.

I guess you can just sit around and wait for your members to figure it out, or else your unit is fortunate enough to have multiple computers with internet access.

[arajca]

Don't suppose you care to share, Maj?

I tried but the documents are in Word 2007 and they attach as a .docx and I don't know how to change them to a file that I can attach.  Anybody care to help me out?

Open the document.
Click the Windows Button on the left end or the ribbon.
Click "Save As"
Select "Word 1997-202 Document"
When the warning about losing functionality (or some such nonsense) pops up, click continue.

[brasda91]

Don't suppose you care to share, Maj?

I tried but the documents are in Word 2007 and they attach as a .docx and I don't know how to change them to a file that I can attach.  Anybody care to help me out?

Open the document.
Click the Windows Button on the left end or the ribbon.
Click "Save As"
Select "Word 1997-202 Document"
When the warning about losing functionality (or some such nonsense) pops up, click continue.

OK, I'm at work now.  I'll try that when I get home this evening.  Thanks.

[brasda91]

Don't suppose you care to share, Maj?

I tried but the documents are in Word 2007 and they attach as a .docx and I don't know how to change them to a file that I can attach.  Anybody care to help me out?

Open the document.
Click the Windows Button on the left end or the ribbon.
Click "Save As"
Select "Word 1997-202 Document"
When the warning about losing functionality (or some such nonsense) pops up, click continue.

OK here we go.  Sorry, I had read this reply at work and then forgot to follow up.

[whatevah]

"study guide" removed.  come on, that's even worse than the trick I saw at a former squadron, "study guides" were the complete cadet leadership tests as a fill-in-the-blank instead of multiple choice.   Thanks for your effort but open book does not mean "here are the answers".

[isuhawkeye]

and people cane down on me for my comments at the top of this page. 

Again

If they are not capable of passing this simple little hurdle they have no business on my team.

Any  frankly this type of subversion of the system could be considered a breach of the core values that you people spout at the drop of a hat

[Ricochet13]

I just finished creating the step by step directions to complete the 116 and 117 part 1 tests.  I also created a study guide for the 116 for them to utilize right along with the test.  Wink

Let me know who's from your unit because I don't think I want anyone on my team who needs to be hand held through the 116
Just my $.02

Let Me throw in my $.02 on this too.  While there are many self-directed learners, not everyone learns best that way.  As it stands now, I would question the "learning" which takes place as a member sits in front of the computer and hunts and pecks for answers in the regulations.  As I recall, there were a number of items I did not understand, but could find a "correct" answer for.  I have conducted group presentations on the subject matter contained in the GES and feel there was a greater understanding of materials as a result of members being able to ask questions, more detailed explanations, and of course the inevitable "war stories".   

However, if all we're looking for is going through the motions to get a ticket punched, then by all means, keep it totally online.    Have I been mistaken that knowledge and understanding were important also?

[jeders]

I just finished creating the step by step directions to complete the 116 and 117 part 1 tests.  I also created a study guide for the 116 for them to utilize right along with the test.  Wink

Let me know who's from your unit because I don't think I want anyone on my team who needs to be hand held through the 116
Just my $.02

Let Me throw in my $.02 on this too.  While there are many self-directed learners, not everyone learns best that way.  As it stands now, I would question the "learning" which takes place as a member sits in front of the computer and hunts and pecks for answers in the regulations.  As I recall, there were a number of items I did not understand, but could find a "correct" answer for.  I have conducted group presentations on the subject matter contained in the GES and feel there was a greater understanding of materials as a result of members being to ask questions, more detailed explanations, and of course the inevitable "war stories".   

However, if all we're looking for is going through the motions to get a ticket punched, then by all means, keep it totally online.    Have I been mistaken that knowledge and understanding were important also?

That's what the GES course is for, to teach. The test, however, is still a test.

[stillamarine]

I just finished creating the step by step directions to complete the 116 and 117 part 1 tests.  I also created a study guide for the 116 for them to utilize right along with the test.  Wink

Let me know who's from your unit because I don't think I want anyone on my team who needs to be hand held through the 116
Just my $.02

Let Me throw in my $.02 on this too.  While there are many self-directed learners, not everyone learns best that way.  As it stands now, I would question the "learning" which takes place as a member sits in front of the computer and hunts and pecks for answers in the regulations.  As I recall, there were a number of items I did not understand, but could find a "correct" answer for.  I have conducted group presentations on the subject matter contained in the GES and feel there was a greater understanding of materials as a result of members being to ask questions, more detailed explanations, and of course the inevitable "war stories".   

However, if all we're looking for is going through the motions to get a ticket punched, then by all means, keep it totally online.    Have I been mistaken that knowledge and understanding were important also?

That's what the GES course is for, to teach. The test, however, is still a test.

Thing is, there really isn't a GES Course. Most people are just pointed to the slides and the test. They pull the slides up in one window and the test in the other and just find the answers. There is no provision made to make someone either 1) Read all the slides before eligible to take the test or 2) attend a class on the subject matter.

It's nothing more than a ticket punch

[jeders]

I just finished creating the step by step directions to complete the 116 and 117 part 1 tests.  I also created a study guide for the 116 for them to utilize right along with the test.  Wink

Let me know who's from your unit because I don't think I want anyone on my team who needs to be hand held through the 116
Just my $.02

Let Me throw in my $.02 on this too.  While there are many self-directed learners, not everyone learns best that way.  As it stands now, I would question the "learning" which takes place as a member sits in front of the computer and hunts and pecks for answers in the regulations.  As I recall, there were a number of items I did not understand, but could find a "correct" answer for.  I have conducted group presentations on the subject matter contained in the GES and feel there was a greater understanding of materials as a result of members being to ask questions, more detailed explanations, and of course the inevitable "war stories".   

However, if all we're looking for is going through the motions to get a ticket punched, then by all means, keep it totally online.    Have I been mistaken that knowledge and understanding were important also?

That's what the GES course is for, to teach. The test, however, is still a test.

Thing is, there really isn't a GES Course. Most people are just pointed to the slides and the test. They pull the slides up in one window and the test in the other and just find the answers. There is no provision made to make someone either 1) Read all the slides before eligible to take the test or 2) attend a class on the subject matter.

It's nothing more than a ticket punch

Well that's a local problem. Simple solution is to make sure that everyone attend a GES class taught by someone who knows what they're talking about before they get there GES approved, even if they've already taken the test. Remeber, just like everything else, GES rating has to be approved by someone at the squadron.

[arajca]

Given how the GES 'class' was given in many places, the current system is an improvement. I'm sorry, reading the test answers to a group, even with a slide show of some sort, isn't a class and isn't any better than what is done now. I'm sure there were some proper GES classes, but I hadn't seen any and the attitude about it was "Whatever passes the test is fine. It's really not important."

[jeders]

Given how the GES 'class' was given in many places, the current system is an improvement. I'm sorry, reading the test answers to a group, even with a slide show of some sort, isn't a class and isn't any better than what is done now. I'm sure there were some proper GES classes, but I hadn't seen any and the attitude about it was "Whatever passes the test is fine. It's really not important."

Well I can tell you that's not how I run things. I run the GES class as an actual class, not just a here's the answer to this question type of session. That doesn't mean, however, that it's shameful to use the slides or regs as you take the test. I learned quite a bit just reading through the regs looking for answers.

[brasda91]

"study guide" removed.  come on, that's even worse than the trick I saw at a former squadron, "study guides" were the complete cadet leadership tests as a fill-in-the-blank instead of multiple choice.   Thanks for your effort but open book does not mean "here are the answers".

I don't believe it's your decision to decide on how the members of this board utilize my "study guide".

I fail to see how my "study guide" is worse than a leadership test redesigned with fill-in-the-blank.

I could give my members a copy of the GES task guide and tell them to study the guide and when they're ready to test, go for it.  Yes, I agree the GES should be conducted in a classroom setting, but when the member can go on-line and take it without my permission, then I have done nothing but provide a guide.  The questions were intentionally reworded so not to be verbatim of the test.  If I conduct a class, I'm going to stress the important parts of GES.  Oops!  That's telling them the answer!  OK, I'll just give them the regulation.  Nope, can't do that either, the answers to the test are in there.  The test covers the most relevant parts of GES.  I have presented them with the meat of the ES program by providing a guide.  The members are going to learn the ES program as their training continues.  The training doesn'tbegin until they start working on UDF or GT.  It's more important to me that they understand UDF then the GES test.  I can't get them to start any good training until GES is completed.  I can always reiterate various parts of GES during other task training.

I am always available for members to PM me.

[stillamarine]

I just finished creating the step by step directions to complete the 116 and 117 part 1 tests.  I also created a study guide for the 116 for them to utilize right along with the test.  Wink

Let me know who's from your unit because I don't think I want anyone on my team who needs to be hand held through the 116
Just my $.02

Let Me throw in my $.02 on this too.  While there are many self-directed learners, not everyone learns best that way.  As it stands now, I would question the "learning" which takes place as a member sits in front of the computer and hunts and pecks for answers in the regulations.  As I recall, there were a number of items I did not understand, but could find a "correct" answer for.  I have conducted group presentations on the subject matter contained in the GES and feel there was a greater understanding of materials as a result of members being to ask questions, more detailed explanations, and of course the inevitable "war stories".   

However, if all we're looking for is going through the motions to get a ticket punched, then by all means, keep it totally online.    Have I been mistaken that knowledge and understanding were important also?

That's what the GES course is for, to teach. The test, however, is still a test.

Thing is, there really isn't a GES Course. Most people are just pointed to the slides and the test. They pull the slides up in one window and the test in the other and just find the answers. There is no provision made to make someone either 1) Read all the slides before eligible to take the test or 2) attend a class on the subject matter.

It's nothing more than a ticket punch

Well that's a local problem. Simple solution is to make sure that everyone attend a GES class taught by someone who knows what they're talking about before they get there GES approved, even if they've already taken the test. Remeber, just like everything else, GES rating has to be approved by someone at the squadron.

Or they could just make it easier and make it possible to take the test written. Forget all the denying approvals and stuff. Just allow Squadrons to do it either way, which ever works out better.

True most of the GES stuff is pretty simple and most people can figure it out. But IC-100 can be a bit confusing for a cadet, heck when it first came out it was confusing for me!



**edit** While typnig this I was perusing knowledgebase and found that the test CAN be given in paper form. It has to be requested the same way all other tests are, but can be done! I wish I would have known this 3 weeks ago!

Answer # 1379

The CAPT 116 does not have to be taken online - it can be administered in a paper form at local units. Paper versions of the exam can be requested through normal forms/and publications distribution.

However, we would recommend taking it online though as it makes the process significantly easier. When the exam is taken online the results are automatically stored in the testing system, and completion is automatically forwarded into the national database requiring less administrative support than taking it at a unit meeting using the paper form. CAPT 116 Online

[jeders]

I just don't see how giving it in paper form automatically makes any difference. They can still have the regs pulled up on a laptop along with the power point slides. Even if you deny them the laptop, they can still have paper forms of the regs and power point slides. There's no difference between paper and online, except that online the test completion is automatically put into eServices.

[a2capt]

Hmmm.. interesting, that the paper form is still acceptable, the question then being, how do you log/store the results.. since the field is now populated by the testing system.

OTOH, during the October fires here, I had a cadet call and ask me if CAP was doing anything, and how they could help if so- I got the URL for the test, the GES slides, a version of 60-3 that has liner notes and highlighted sections integrated into the PDF and said "take this test", with these references. .. and give me a mug shot.

Uploaded and approved the picture, created a 101 card, PDF'ed it and said "here".

[mamadinos]

I attempted to teach our cadets and 2 senior members the powerpoint to the CAPT 116 several weeks ago.  Only 3 cadets and senior members out of 25 have taken and passed the test so far from that group.  A few of the questions that I've seen on the test are not even explained on the powerpoint.  I think a revision of the powerpoint is necessary to help 12 year olds (and up) understand the materials a little better. 
What do y'all think about a test process similar to the spoon-fed 117 tests, in which the answers are all embedded within the test?

[jeders]

No. If they can't handle using the find function on Acrobat Reader, then they need to go back to preschool.

[DeputyDog]

Hmmm.. interesting, that the paper form is still acceptable, the question then being, how do you log/store the results.. since the field is now populated by the testing system.

Either the member can enter their own completion in "My Operations Qualifications" like any other achievement in the online SQTRs (this one would be under "General Emergency Services"), or a member with the right permissions can enter it for them in "Operations Qualifications".

Given it would be a bit odd for the member to take the GES on paper and then enter their completion themselves (if they could enter it online, then they should be able to take the test online too), but that option is there.

[floridacyclist]

This is what we send our folks to in addition to a sit-down class if possible

http://www.tallahasseecap.org/estraining.shtml

[W3ZR]

I  have a question about the exam,
in CAP REGULATION 60-3 it states

"Successful completion of the current CAPT 116,
General Emergency Services Questionnaire,
corrected to 100 percent, qualifies the member
in the General Emergency Services Specialty Rating."

How does one correct an exam to 100 % ?
Do we keep taking the test  or what ?
Part 1 (GES) I have 100%, but I have 92% on part 2 (ICS).

[SarDragon]

That was predicated on review of a paper test. Dunno how you're supposed to do that these days.

[W3ZR]

I kind of guessed it was for back in the days of classes.

The CAP side of things I was able to find the answers
with ease, but the ICS one there were several I couldnt
find a reference to, and the end of test "areas to review"
were useless as the reference numbers they provided,
(my 2 wrong answers) do not match up to the slides or
any ICS100 class I have already.

[brasda91]

How does one correct an exam to 100 % ?
Do we keep taking the test  or what ?
Part 1 (GES) I have 100%, but I have 92% on part 2 (ICS).

If you take the tests in a classroom setting, via the paper method, once you make the passing score, the instructor sits down with you, goes over the questions you missed and you correct your answer sheet to 100%.  Same thing is done with the cadets and their achievement tests.