New External AeroEd Program

[Cadet Tillett]

Was this another Pineda thing?

That is sick.  Even the 12-year olds have a hard time with the program sometimes.  The program should be kept for older, more mature youth.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Initially, the minimum entry age was 14.  That's about where it should be.  13 if the kid is in high school, but NO LOWER!

[addo1]

  Like a 5 year old is really ever going to be able to pass a high school level aerospace exam.  Crazy.       I think this is a bad choice for CAP, personally.

[PA Guy]

This has already been discussed in the Aerospace Ed section of this forum in a thread called New External AeroEd Prog.

[star1151]

Frankly, IMHO, this is repulsive. A quasi-military program has no place in it for young children. Good citizenship is one thing, quasi-military programs for 5 year olds sounds like something from a totalitarian state.

5 year olds?  One word comes to mind when I think that, and that's "distasteful".   5 year olds are just too impressionable and I agree that it sounds like something from a totalitarian state.  Can a 5 year old really comprehend what the program is all about, or is it just something Mommy and Daddy are making him do?

[addo1]

  A lot of cadets are getting ready for joining the service and are getting good training in CAP.  Say, it out flat..  Mature teens do not want to have to babysit all the sudden just so young elementary kids can "try to have fun" and get nothing out of it, while the teen is preparing himself mentally and physically for his career in the military or such.  Believe me, if anyone has sense this will not last.

[PA Guy]

Folks, read the referenced thread.  This is a program run by the AE folks not the CP section.  These kids will not participate in THE cadet program.  They have a different curriculum.  No grade, no uniforms, no milestone awards etc. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

Folks, read the referenced thread.  This is a program run by the AE folks not the CP section.  These kids will not participate in THE cadet program.  They have a different curriculum.  No grade, no uniforms, no milestone awards etc. 

"...as they lifted off a new nationwide Civil Air Patrol junior cadet program, Friday."

We CAN read.

[PA Guy]

Do you believe everything you read in the papers, especially an AL newspaper?  These youngsters can't show up at your sqdn and request to join.  This program is being run by as an external AE program by the AE section at NHQ.  The Cadet Program section has nothing to do with it.  Participants will not be enrolled as cadets in CAP.  I discussed this program at length with Curt Lafond when I was at NHQ last week because when I first heard about it I had some of the same concerns you have. 

[lordmonar]

This is just like the Explorers, Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts.....similar but completely separate programs.

One of the telling thing about this particular announcement is the reaction of the posters....not only do they not like this new program they also voice their dislike for the current program.

Hey guys......the cadet program is for the youth of America...not the other way around.

If you wait until the young person is 14-15 before your get him hooked on to CAP you are going to never hook em.

Get them early, make if fun and age appropriate and you will keep them.

[BillB]

During the 1950's or 60's CAP had an "Eaglet" program for 10-13 year olds. It was run as an introduction to aerospace and the cadet program.  No grades were authorized, no ribbons, and I don't remember if a uniform of any type was allowed. The program was effective into bringing "Eaglet" graduates into the cadet program when they reached the minimum age (at that time) of 13. But funding and other problems at the National level ended the program.
Four years ago the SER Commander (whose name we don't mention) gave an OK to try an expermental program at a Florida Wing unit for 10 and 11 year olds. The uniform was an AF style shirt, blue jeans and a black name tag that read CAP EAGLET with the last name. No grade was given, and the Eaglet did not take part in most cadet activities other than AE classes and their own D&C, separate from the regular cadets. It was very successful in that 100% of the Eaglets joined CAP as cadets on reaching minimum age. The program died when the unit was dechartered due to poor leadership.
The proposed 5-12 year old program that National is trying I think carries the Eaglet program to an extreme in that minimum age should be 8, not 5 years of age. This is based on what is taught at that age level in science classes or other applicable elementry school classes. A 5 year old doesn't have the cognative learning to understand the aspects of aerospace education in it's simplist forms.

[star1151]

If you wait until the young person is 14-15 before your get him hooked on to CAP you are going to never hook em.

I joined at the age of 26, and I'd even go so far as to say that MOST senior members weren't cadets...but we're hooked.

[RADIOMAN015]

I guess my question is WHO is funding this entire project?  Is it coming out of dues OR did they get grant money for it...  I think we need concentrate our energy/resources on the current cadet program without all this "misson crep" into other areas.  Seems somewhat similiar to the model for cubscouts & boyscouts!!!

RADIOMAN015 

[Grumpy]

When I came back into CAP in '93 I couldn't believe the age (12) of the cadets.  I thought we were running a nursery school.  Now I KNOW we are.

I couldn't join in the 50's until I reached 14.  If this goes, I'll just transfer from a Composite Squadron to a Senior Squadron.  I don't want anything to do with elementary school kids.

[MIKE]

Topics merged.

[dogboy]

Do you believe everything you read in the papers, especially an AL newspaper? 

I'm disappointed that you apparently think Alabamians are stupid. In stories like this, the report writes what he/ she is told. If the reporter call them "Cadets", you can be pretty certain it's a repeat of what was said.

[PA Guy]

Do you believe everything you read in the papers, especially an AL newspaper? 

I'm disappointed that you apparently think Alabamians are stupid. In stories like this, the report writes what he/ she is told. If the reporter call them "Cadets", you can be pretty certain it's a repeat of what was said.

I never said people in AL were stupid. However, having been born in AL and having lived in AL I am very familiar with the small town newspapers that abound in N. AL like the one quoted in this thread. The LA Times it isn't. But that aside, the remark was meant to be light hearted, oh well so much for humor.

This project is an external AE program run by the AE section not the CP section. These youngsters will not be in the "regular" cadet program.   They will not be showing up at encampment or taking the Spaatz.  If that happens there will be a race between Grumpy and I to find the nearest Senior sqdn.

[addo1]

 

Do you believe everything you read in the papers, especially an AL newspaper? 

I'm disappointed that you apparently think Alabamians are stupid. In stories like this, the report writes what he/ she is told. If the reporter call them "Cadets", you can be pretty certain it's a repeat of what was said.

... If that happens there will be a race between Grumpy and I to find the nearest Senior sqdn..

Yep, and us older cadets will be stuck with all the babysitting?  

[dogboy]

This is just like the Explorers, Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts.....similar but completely separate programs.

One of the telling thing about this particular announcement is the reaction of the posters....not only do they not like this new program they also voice their dislike for the current program.

Hey guys......the cadet program is for the youth of America...not the other way around.

If you wait until the young person is 14-15 before your get him hooked on to CAP you are going to never hook em.

Get them early, make if fun and age appropriate and you will keep them.

I'm sorry to say, I disagree entirely. I am a sociologist with extensive training in human development.

Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts are not quasi-military programs. (Evidence: have you ever seen them march? If you have, you know they don't practice.)

Cub and Boy Scouts are family and neighborhood groups based programs appropriate for young children. They have a broad base of activities, with more elective activities (merit badges) as the kids get older. Younger kids need a wide range of skills and aerospace education is, at best, an extremely peripheral one for them. They need to learn to interact with a broad range of kids, not just those who share their narrow interests. They need moral training.

The CAP Cadet program until recent madness, ALWAY had 14 or 15 as a minimum age. At this age, late middle school and high school,  kids have moved beyond neighborhood groups and are forming peer groups based on choice, ability, and interest. There's:  preppies, jocks, stoners, freaks, drama queens, surfers, skateboarders, tools, nerds and others (The names for these groups vary among schools but they're always there. I read about this in the FIRST sociology book I ever read Elmtown's Youth, 1949).

This is where the CAP Cadet program should be, offering an alternative, not to the Cub Scouts, but for the late middle-school and high school kids to being a just a skateboarder, just a nerd, or just a jock. Instead, the lowering of the minimum age for Cadets drives out high school students and prevents them from joining. A sensible high school kid does not wants to be in a program with 12 year olds. It's humiliating.

The minimum age for Cadets was lowered simply because the Cadet program was losing numbers. What wasn't considered was that what it gains in numbers from 12 year olds, it looses from the 16, 17 and 18 year olds never join or drop out because they don't want to associate with kids that young  and because the program is standards and activities have been lowered to accommodate young children.

Analogy: can you imagine an 18 year olds and 12 year olds playing baseball or basketball on the same team? Or sitting in the same school classes? Of course not, we all know the physical, emotional, and intellectual differences are too great. And it would be demeaning to the 18 year old and confusing and scary to the 12 year old. (Of course there is always the exceptional 11 year old who can take high school classes or is big enough to play high school ball, but we're discussing averages here).

But this is exactly what the Cadet program tries to do. A sixteen year old who joins might have a twelve year old as a drill instructor. Twelve-year olds sit in classes that bewilder them while seventeen-year olds sit in the same class and are bored. The Cadets go on a bivouac. The 12 year olds can't keep up and the 17 year olds are held back.

You say: "make if fun and age appropriate". A program that tries to serve kids from 12 to age 18 cannot be either age-appropriate or fun for anyone.

It's no wonder that perhaps 50% of cadets drop out during their first year.

This bizarre new program for 5-12 year olds ought to be directed toward 12-14 year olds instead. Get 12 and 13 year olds out of the Cadet program and into a limited aerospace education program, like the one proposed.

[addo1]

 Ok, I agree for the most part.  Now, think about this.  Could they make a SEPERATE area for younger cadets that would be both fun and age appropiate for them?  Could they maybe start a program for younger kids, for them only?  Either way, I stay with my first opinion- the minimum age for a composite squadron should be 12.