CTAC- CapTalk Advisory Council

[RogueLeader]

To bad that the swollen heads in AL don't ask our opinion before they do these things.

Great idea!! That gave me an epiphany!  We should form the CapTalk Advisory Council  or CTAC. We would act in the same way as the CAC.  While the ideas that NHQ put out are well thought, and insightful; they can be. .. . .what's th word. . . .oh. . . lacking.
NHQ could come up with an idea, then ask for input. We toss it around in our usual fashion. First we work it around for the obvious errors/childishness; then we create an equally functional idea that also conveys the meaning of the original idea.

[pixelwonk]

NHQ could come up with an idea, then ask for input. We toss it around in our usual fashion. First we work it around for the obvious errors/childishness; then we create an equally functional idea that also conveys the meaning of the original idea.

[afgeo4]

...or we could just form the Civil Air Patrol Association and make this its official online forum.

I think the NGB would actually hear out someone representing the official Association of CAP. Will they listen to them? Probably not, but at least we'll have a voice. Chains of command do not exist for the lower echelon personnel to be heard. They exist for them NOT to be heard so that the upper echelon personnel don't have to be bothered all the time by questions/comments/suggestions.

That's why commissions, questionnaires and trials exist in the military. The real military actually requests its members' opinions on topics they want opinions on.
CAP just says "pass it up the chain" because they know it won't get there. For a random Lieutenant's suggestion to be heard by the National Commander it would have to be approved by 6 high ranked officers who'd have to agree with the suggestion 100% even though they all have their own agendas. That's pretty unlikely.

[Hoser]

Sounds like a powerplay to me. CAP Talk is one more GOB club that everyone here complains about. A self appointed advisory committee? No one here speaks for me. This is the most absurd idea I have heard of

[Major Carrales]

Sounds like a powerplay to me. CAP Talk is one more GOB club that everyone here complains about. A self appointed advisory committee? No one here speaks for me. This is the most absurd idea I have heard of

I am curious, please elaborate?

[pixelwonk]

don't feed the trolls

[Major Carrales]

don't feed the trolls

I was just curious if I was a GOB, SOB (likely), but GOB...that's status.

[Hoser]

I'd be glad to elaborate, since you asked. If you look at the stats on most posts and most topic starters you will see 16 names, some in both areas. In looking back at numerous posts by the "biggies" in the lists, I see a desire to make CAP something it is not, the military, by imposing unrealistic standards and qualifications on volunteers along with creating absurd loyalty oaths, and if memory serves even the ideas of subjecting CAP to the Uninformed Code of Military Injustice and possibly deploying us to combat zones in non combat roles have come up.  If I wanted all those hoops I would have stayed in the Coast Guard. On several occasions I have posted my opinion and I noticed that what I have had to say has been "poked at" or even more mysteriously the thread seems to have dried up. Is that because what i have had to say didn't toe the "party line"? I think so.
I joined CAP because I believe in the program (generally speaking), because since I retired from a career in the Fire Service and EMS I need to feed the altruistic part of my makeup, to do something more constructive with aviation than $100.00 hamburgers and occasionally do it on someone elses dime. The "regulars here fit what I call a good ole boys club, or maybe more accurately a mutual admiration society with little tolerance for ideas outside what I believe to be a myopic view of what CAP is and could be. In the world of professional rescue and prehospital medicine, a lot of the attitudes I have seen here would be lambasted being what in my part of the country are called "street squirrels" whose cars would be so festooned with scanner and radio antennas that they'd resemble  porcupines.
I have also noticed there seems to be a prevalent thought that time in grade or position implies expertise. I have seen that mentality get firemen killed and it has no place here. Our jobs in CAP are not to get ourselves killed, this isn't the Marine Corps. Nor is it to go out in the woods looking for pot farms, this isn't the DEA. The idea that we in CAP should be armed (which has been brought up in here before) is insane AND inane, we aren't the local constabulary, we are volunteers trying to do something for our community. Those of you that think that we should, go be cops or narcs or professional soldiers or work for Blackwater.
Those are reasons why I think this CAP talk Advisory Council is a superflous idea. One that is a  power play, driven by over inflated egos and assessment of worth.
That is my opinion.

Hoser

[RogueLeader]

You are missing the main idea of what C-TAC would be about.  This isn't about who has TIG or what position.  NHQ has done some good things and some not so good things.  Statistically, CapTalk is an accurate representative of CAP on the whole.  That does not mean that all opinions are represented equally, but the majority are.  Anybody who took stats could tell you this.
CTAC would basically tell you what is good/bad/ugly and if it could be better.  Are we all saying that we should be acting as cops/mil/deo- no, we are talking about what we think that we could/could not/ or would/would not want to do as CAP.  Are all of them realistic- NO, but does that mean that automatically they should be disbanded.  Look at what IAWG just did with Operation Iowa Flag, on initial concept, most would say it's a bad idea.  Look at what they did, they just got into a much higher working relationship with the ANG/NG.  I believe that is one of the most commonly held goals of CAP.
If any person would not want to participate or help; that person is free not to contribute.  I, for one would like to try.

Speaking for myself, as being one of the "Big Boys" for having many posts, and topics starters.  I do NOT see my self as great, or more important than anybody else.  I'm just glad to be able to help others.

[Sgt. Savage]

I'd be glad to elaborate, since you asked. If you look at the stats on most posts and most topic starters you will see 16 names, some in both areas. In looking back at numerous posts by the "biggies" in the lists, I see a desire to make CAP something it is not, the military, by imposing unrealistic standards and qualifications on volunteers along with creating absurd loyalty oaths, and if memory serves even the ideas of subjecting CAP to the Uninformed Code of Military Injustice and possibly deploying us to combat zones in non combat roles have come up.  If I wanted all those hoops I would have stayed in the Coast Guard. On several occasions I have posted my opinion and I noticed that what I have had to say has been "poked at" or even more mysteriously the thread seems to have dried up. Is that because what i have had to say didn't toe the "party line"? I think so.
I joined CAP because I believe in the program (generally speaking), because since I retired from a career in the Fire Service and EMS I need to feed the altruistic part of my makeup, to do something more constructive with aviation than $100.00 hamburgers and occasionally do it on someone else's dime. The "regulars here fit what I call a good ole boys club, or maybe more accurately a mutual admiration society with little tolerance for ideas outside what I believe to be a myopic view of what CAP is and could be. In the world of professional rescue and prehospital medicine, a lot of the attitudes I have seen here would be lambasted being what in my part of the country are called "street squirrels" whose cars would be so festooned with scanner and radio antennas that they'd resemble  porcupines.
I have also noticed there seems to be a prevalent thought that time in grade or position implies expertise. I have seen that mentality get firemen killed and it has no place here. Our jobs in CAP are not to get ourselves killed, this isn't the Marine Corps. Nor is it to go out in the woods looking for pot farms, this isn't the DEA. The idea that we in CAP should be armed (which has been brought up in here before) is insane AND inane, we aren't the local constabulary, we are volunteers trying to do something for our community. Those of you that think that we should, go be cops or narcs or professional soldiers or work for Blackwater.
Those are reasons why I think this CAP talk Advisory Council is a superflous idea. One that is a  power play, driven by over inflated egos and assessment of worth.
That is my opinion.

Hoser

Hoser,

Please take what I say for what it's worth. I, for one, am no GOB. I think that's a reflection of the boards membership as a whole. Just because like minded people come together and discuss CAP issues doesn't make it a GOB Club.

Understanding your position as a veteran EMS guy, you should be able to grasp the fact that some of the most seasoned members of the organization and this board already own the t-shirt. Some of us MADE the t-shirt. We've no illusion that CAP is going to be this high speed SAR/Fighting/ LE/ EMS/ Welding/ Culinary arts organization. We're just members.

I believe that Rogueleader has posed a worth while idea, as a membership we often see things take place that are either never explained to us or that we fully disagree with. This is not the military, we actually pay to be members. Doesn't that give us a right to be heard?

I'm sorry you feel as though you are not being taken seriously as a poster. Frankly, having reviewed some of you posts, they're not that exciting to me. You, as an ARCHER  Operator, are a little unique. I am in no place to comment on ARCHER as I don't know much about it. I read your posts and learn from them. At some point you may pose an idea I feel I can contribute to.

Regarding stereotyping members of this community, a piece of advice, don't. I come here for information and to pose ideas about how CAP could be more effective and efficient. I don't see anyone trying to change the CAP model. The organization has a great deal of potential and is not being used to the fullest extent possible. Threads about our "deployability" are pointing out hypothetical situations that evolve from legal loop holes. May of these theoretical discussions take place while people know full well that we are not going to be sent to Iraq, we're not going to be trained as MERCs and we are not going to be armed; it's just talk.

Look I don't have as many posts or topics as others but, I pose ideas and contribute to others ideas if I feel like I have something of value. I'm not an authority on anything that happens beyond the 4 foot square I call "my personal space". Just a contributor. I suspect most board members are just about the same.

[RogueLeader]

^Thank you and Hooah.