GIS

[Tubacap]

So we are currently working on GIS for the state, and I was wondering what other people use for this.  There was a generic thread earlier about technology in SAR.  I am looking for specific GIS programming.  Also what do your field teams use to meet their mapping needs?

What sort of overlays do people use ast ICP's?

[Al Sayre]

Generally, we stay pretty low tech here in MS, we use the DeLorme atlas along with some pretty good county by county maps published by the state for most GT work and the appropriate Sectional for airwork.  Some of us who are more technology oriented use Google Earth and electronic versions of the above and can cut up sections and do overlays etc.  At the ICP, I tend to use a combination, whatever is easiest to make my point with.  I believe in the KISS principle, and I've never had a power or computer failure on a paper map...

[Eclipse]

This has been covered in other threads.

Garmin Mapsource (along w/ my GPS III+ in the field)

Google Earth (which can be hacked to work w/o internet using cached images).

Microsoft Automap Streets (old copy).

local.live.com

At the ILWG Eval, I was GBD and we had a projected display of Google Earth waypoints showing the last check point, major clues, and related information to the teams (both air and ground).  Not only is it impressive to the uninitiated (its not really that big a deal to set up), but the "battlefield scope" it entails is outstanding.

If your teams are equipped with data-capable cel phones (that are working, whether for real or as part of the ROE) you can send waypoints, screenshots, and other info right to the field.

As long as we're talking about ICPs, if you have internet, I would suggest SKYPE for each branch director – allows for a direct phone number to each desk w/o having any real phone lines, and will cost about $12 a quarter – you can sign up
day of, and I'm told this could be considered a legit communication expense for the 108.

[wingnut]

I think it is time we have a GIS Thread, I believe that the concept of GIS (Geographical Information Systems) as it relates to Civil Air Patrol and (USAF MILITARY) needs, GIS is a Tactical and Information Data source for the Emergency Services, Homeland Security, CD, Aviation and Ground navigation, we all are aware of NTAP data for forensic crash intelligence all point to the potential of the establishment of a type of 'AIR INTELIGENCE" specialty. This specialist will work directly for the IC in an Emergency Services Scenario, and for the Wing Commander during "Peace Time". GIS or Geographical Information Systems are well established as a critical tool to be used by the Commanders for an exercise or any conceivable incident that requires the spatial awareness  of Battlescape. Imagine  this each wing has an IC Tactical center that has a 10 foot screen with a map that gives a real-time GPS coordinates of all CAP Aircraft and Ground teams during a mission. Think of the increased capability this will bring to CAP and to the Command Staff,  3D Aviation and Topographic Grid Maps distributed to Air Crews or ground Teams, The SDIS crews can be given a map that shows the location of the Global Star Satellites and Archer or SDIS Reconnaissance photographs can be taken with their GPS coordinates imbedded  in the Picture so the picture shows up on an Air Intelligence   Recon map. Anyone up for the challenge?? Lets just do it, make it work, all we need is one GIS specialist in each State and we can help bring Civil Air Patrol into the 21st Century.

[Tubacap]

That is currently what we are working on in PAWG.  The idea is to not reinvent the wheel 18 times though.  The google earth overlays on cap-it.us are theoretically awesome if they work, which I haven't gotten all of them to yet.  We are having an issue with dissiminating information down in a cost effective manor, any ideas?  Our state uses ArcMap to do GIS things, so integration would be there, and with Arcview, that would work.  I need to personally become more familiar with it.  This would be great for large scale missions like flooding and the like.

From a tactical perspective, I personally use Delorme, and have just started using ImageTagger which integrates photographs onto the map using the timestamp on the camera and the timestamps in the GPS Log, I want to try it on a flight though, and see how it goes from the air.  That's Monday's task.

If any other wing is out in front in this and is willing to share resources, I would greatly appreciate any help!

[RiverAux]

I use ArcMap on an irregular basis as part of my real job and there are some very real applications of these sorts of GIS programs to CAP.  However, the level of technical expertise you need to learn a real GIS program and maintain those skills make it much more trouble than it is worth for CAP applications. 

You're wrong about 1 GIS specialist per state.  You would need many more than that in order to provide dedicated GIS support on a continuous basis throughout a major mission. 

Really these formal GIS programs are becoming less relevant since we can now accomplish just about everything we want using GoogleEarth and other similar applications that are much easier to learn and use. 

[Tubacap]

Rookie question, but what is the difference between GIS and a regular mapping program?  Is the only thing the overlay capability?

[RiverAux]

GIS is a mapping program, but I think we're using the term here to talk about real high quality program that can do a lot of analysis beyond just making maps.  Cost of GIS programs usually is in the low thousands. 

Really just a matter of degree.   

[Tubacap]

so what would be the difference between using something like google earth and something like ArcGIS or xMAP?

[RiverAux]

ArcGIS are stand alone programs that you have to pay licenses for and you have to go out and hunt down datasets for all the various map layers that you might need.  Difficult to learn, need new computers, lots of storage, etc.  Cost = high.

GoogleEarth already has photos, roads, buildings, addresses, geographic features, park boundaries, etc. that all you need to do is click a button to see.  Cost = none. 

[sardak]

We recently had a good discussion on this topic, including how to get ArcGIS and other software on the cheap, here:
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2056

Rookie question, but what is the difference between GIS and a regular mapping program?  Is the only thing the overlay capability?

No, here is the definition from the Volusia County, FL GIS department:
"In short, a GIS doesn't hold maps or pictures - it holds a database. The database concept is central to a GIS and is the main difference between a GIS and drafting or computer mapping systems, which can only produce a good graphic output. All contemporary geographic information systems incorporate a database management system.

GIS is not simply a computer system for making maps, although it can create maps at different scales, in different projections, and with different colors. A GIS is an analytical tool. The major advantage of a GIS is that it allows you to identify the spatial relationship between map features."

And from the US Geological Survey:
"In the strictest sense, a GIS is a computer system capable of assembling, storing, manipulating, and displaying geographically referenced information, i.e. data identified according to their locations. Practitioners also regard the total GIS as including operating personnel and the data that go into the system."

So the difference between a GIS and computer mapping software is not the overlay capability, which most mapping programs have, but the ability to analyze the overlays and other data.

As one of those practitioners cited above, I'll say that 98% of what CAP needs mapping software for can be accomplished with DeLorme, National Geographic, Maptech and similar mapping programs, not a full blown GIS or software like ArcGIS.

GPS tracks, waypoints, NTAP locations, Sarsat hits, possible targets and other position information can be plotted quickly and easily on the noted mapping programs, and maps printed from them easily.

Mike

[RiverAux]

I agree with Mike.  A few years ago the only way to get these capabilities was with a full-blown GIS, but now that isn't necessary for our needs. 

[wingnut]

I understand your concerns Guys, but I teach GIS to High School Kids and you can buy a full blown Arc GIS 9 with ALL the extensions for $99.00 and it can be used by a CAP unit for producing needed Graphics etc. The point is that its not the issue of using one particular program but the concept of learning the Science, Any program is just going to be a Tool in the tool box and any GIS specialists worth his salt is using all that apply to their needs for the particular event. You can do what ever you want but if we integrate into the world of HLS  GIS we must have a professional GIS program. HAZUS from FEMA will only work with ARC GIS.

But!! Don't missunderstand what I am saying, Google is a big improvement as a tool for ICs, and many of the real expensive GPS units being sold to pilots are GIS units with multiple layers of information all ready imbedded within, that's what I am talking about. the Pilots having a Chart to navigate with and can switch between Topo maps, a Street/Highway map, and soon a Georeferenced Photo. The tool of GIS is for the Tactical use of the Command Staff and Field Crew. $3,000 per plane may not be too expensive for CAP because we do a good job of buying tools.

We have a hard time keeping Talented Techno Savy Volunteers because CAP has a "Can't do that attitude, or worse Talented CAP members feel they are being ignored by a system that is being run by "sticks in the MUD" who for mostly personal reasons should still be flying a piper cub, or think a pentium 286 64mb of memory is "JUST FINE FOR WHAT WE DO", yes and "SLOW SCAN" was a great Idea too.

ARCHER is a GIS device that has been totally misused and missunderstood by the CAP management, but it is going to be modified to work so be prepared for many changes. Why was it allowed to languish for years? Ask all of the Archer Operators who "REFUSE" to fly missions, they will tell you, at least the ones who are still members.

[Tubacap]

As one of those practitioners cited above, I'll say that 98% of what CAP needs mapping software for can be accomplished with DeLorme, National Geographic, Maptech and similar mapping programs, not a full blown GIS or software like ArcGIS.

So what are the other 2% of needs that can be satisfied by GIS and not regular mapping software?  There has been a lot of talk about the analysis portion of GIS, what exactly is this, and how would it be beneficial to the greater mission?

Tags - MIKE

[Tubacap]

rats I got the quote wrong!

[RiverAux]

Ask all of the Archer Operators who "REFUSE" to fly missions, they will tell you, at least the ones who are still members.

Huh? 

[Hoser]

First GIS is NOT software. GIS is a SYSTEM of software, hardware, people and procedures designed to capture, manipulate and analyze data in order to solve complex problems. Second the $99.00 ArcGIS is ArcView (not ArcInfo or ArcEditor),with all the extensions and is a student license that expires after 1 year, and you must document your student status to ESRI. Third, as was mentioned the geodatabase is the keystone of GIS and a geodatabase is a different animal as it contains spatial data as well as attribute data. Feature datasets contain feature classes and all of this revolves around coincident geometery, topology rules, object behaviors as outlined in domains. There are 4 types of geodatabases: 1 Enterprise, which requires a DBMS such as SQL  AND ArcSDE and there is no size limit. 2. Workgroup which uses SQL ServerExpress and is limited to 4GB, 3. Personal, which uses either SQLServer Express or MS Access and is limited to 2GB and 4. File which is just that, a file and is limited to 1TB. Data does not always have to be hunted down, though tons of data exist on the web. Data can be created, as in a new geodatabase, OR existing data can be edited to suit a particular purpose or for completeness. ARCHER is NOT a GIS device but is interoperable with ArcGIS applications due to the embedding of a *.twf file in the imagery which allows for georeferencing in ARcGIS. In NO WAY does ARCHER do anything other than gather raw data. ARCHER is a hyperspectral imaging system that operates in bands 2,3 and 4. Any remote sensing data can be imported into ArcGIS, be it visible, SAR, LIDAR etc. They are just really huge raster datasets.
ArcMap is not primarily a mapping application though it does produce nice cartographic products. Rather it is an analysis tool that allows for applying boolean operators on data sets to make selections based on attributes or locations or determining spatial relationships between data layers just for openers.
You don't buy ArcGIS applications and figure out how to run them. As to the utility of XMap, for CAP purposes it is the bee's knees. I used it on an ARCHER mission where we imaged the Verdigris river in south Kansas and northern OK and Lake Oologah in OK after the flooding caused an oil release from the refinery in Coffeyville KS. It is a superb mission planning tool, and mission effectivess tool. Wiith it, we planned our sorties after consultation with personnel from the EPA and USCG. We were provided maps from EPA prior to leaving which were generated from ArcGIS AFTER the potential spread of oil was modeled in the GIS to make a prediction AND determine area of high, medium and low priority for ARCHER imagery, which was then hopefully validated with ARCHER data We also were able to make accurate projections of time aloft knowing the area to be flown. For ground SAR there are draw tools that allow for accurate determination of area of search segments and with the ability to plug in a CD containing 10m sat photos a more accurate assessment of the number of ground personnel needed to cover an area can be made. The ability to split screen with one side in 3-D is also a great tool for ground SAR as well as air operations.
CAP doesn't need GIS in the sense of what GIS is and that is my definition in the opening paragraph, and that is paraphrasing Jack Dangermond, the founder of ESRI.
We DO however need the ability to generate maps quickly and understand what they mean. We do need them for documentation post incident for legal reasons.
That is my opinion, I could be wrong

Hoser

[sardak]

So what are the other 2% of needs that can be satisfied by GIS and not regular mapping software?  There has been a lot of talk about the analysis portion of GIS, what exactly is this, and how would it be beneficial to the greater mission?
Tags - MIKE

So now you have two answers that give the same definition of a GIS as a system, not just software, and the keyword again is analysis.  The 2% where CAP might benefit from a GIS falls into two categories 1) when there is a need to analyze spatial data, or data that could be better understood when presented on a map; 2) when custom maps need to be made (which is not really the function of a GIS, but the software makes this easy).

The analysis part of a GIS is the ability to query a database and plot the results on a map.  The database contains attributes - the information about a geographic feature linked to the feature by a unique identifier. The attributes in a GIS industry standard shapefile are contained in a dBase table, but the attributes could be in an Excel spreadsheet, Access database or a text file.  The queries can be made using functions built into the software or using scripts written by users.  For an idea of the complexity of these data, I have a shapefile of major highways.  On a map, these appear as continuous lines.  But each highway has many segments and each segment has 43 attributes which can be analyzed.

The other key item is that the spatial reference for the feature doesn't have to be a point in lat/lon, but could be a street address, zip code, county or SAR grid.  The software knows the lat/lon of those too, but the query can be made by zip code for instance without the user needing to know or worry about the coordinates.

So on a search, simple queries like show just the Sarsat hits or the potential sightings could be made and plotted.  But the real advantage is complex queries like show all the grids flown in the morning on each day of the search, grids flown by a certain crew or aircraft, which grids have been searched by both air and ground, the cumulative POD for all grids and color the grids differently depending on the POD, etc.

The issue is how that information gets into a file that the GIS can query.  The answer is that someone has to input the data.  Base maps have to be located (part of pre-planning) and loaded.  Mission specific data have to be transferred from the 104s, 109s, clue logs, etc. into a format the software can use, and this has to be done in a timely manner.  Good work for MSAs, but there needs to be a standard format and thought has to go in to what attributes need to be collected.  This needs to be done before the search (pre-planning) or very early during the search.

As an example, on a large missing person search, the clue log was being input into a GIS.  All coordinates were in UTM, but some were in six digit shorthand and others were in full 14 digit format.  The GIS tech who had to input the data as well as make the maps knew nothing about SAR or UTM shorthand.  He didn't ask the situation unit leader about the short coordinates or enter them into the database.  It wasn't until searchers noticed clues not plotted on the map and asking why not, that this issue came to light.

The analysis capability of a GIS can be used by CAP outside of ES. Plots could be made showing how many members live in each county in a wing, or distribution of members and units.  This might reveal that members aren't going to the nearest unit, the need for a new unit in an area or moving a meeting place closer to the members.  Plot the members who've quit and see where they're located.  These are suggestions that could be done in a database program or manually with a simple mapping program, but a GIS allows the data to be sliced, diced, peeled and cut in many ways, and displayed quickly.  This is information that commanders track (hopefully) but displaying it on a map could have more impact visually.

The custom  mapping ability of GIS software allows maps to be built that show just about anything that's desired. In the wildland fire world, there are 19 pre-defined types of maps a GIS specialist might be asked to make on a fire or all-hazards incident.  This list doesn't include typical SAR needs for maps.

Map data comes in two types: raster which are images made up of pixels, and vector which are lines, points and polygons made up of points (more or less).  Simplistically, in a mapping program the base map is the raster data and the data downloaded from a GPS is vector data.  GIS software can read and edit many types of raster and vector data.  Multiple raster layers can be overlaid with the transparency of each layer, or individual colors in each layer, modified to see the underlying layer(s).  For example, the GIS software can connect to the Internet, download raster weather data like satellite photos and radar, and overlay them on a background map.  Then vector data can be overlaid on these.

So those are my ideas of the 2% where a GIS or GIS software could be beneficial.  However, there are cheaper and simpler solutions than a GIS, or software like ArcGIS, that do almost all the same things, and would be a better match for most of what CAP does.

Should we not think about having GIS specialists or the need to use a GIS in CAP? No.  However, when it comes to technology, CAP throws lots of money at it and gets little in return.  If the organization thinks it needs this capability, then it needs to talk to the experts and real world users first.  Unfortunately, that's not the CAP way. 

Go find the multi-thousand dollar wing laptop loaded with Boeing Battlescape and Jeppesen FlightMap software, then find someone who can operate them.  If successful, compare Battlescape to Google Earth.

Mike

[DKruse]

Ask all of the Archer Operators who "REFUSE" to fly missions, they will tell you, at least the ones who are still members.

Huh? 

Exactly what I was thinking........

[wingnut]

Sorry guys I have been gone for several weeks, first in response to how Archer data can't be used for GIS sorry to tell you but we did just that for four days and imported it into ENVI as a georeferenced image. WHY did we do that?? the customer proved it could be done. if it could not the Archer would die on the vine.

Second the use of GIS for CAP is a a positive image for CAP and should not be discouraged because most people don't understand our techno geek babeling. Any type of fast mapping system is ok with me, but it should be standardized, lets think of what software is cheap gets the job done etc.  ESRI will let CAP use ARCGIS for training and educational uses, so who cares about the license this is a concept approach, create one working State (Wing) GIS (or call it Intelligence etc), lets make it work.

Finally I have to tell you that I was at the National Radio Astronomy Observatory for a week and we were mapping whale farts from the Extragalactic continuum, it was really cool, the Astronomy and radio electronics are very precise. Th Calculus and trig murdered me but think God for IDL this is the main processing software found in many imaging software packages such as ENVI.

This is a good thread, you guys have great Ideas