Vanguard selling new type of CAP Polo

[Ozzy]

Hey All,  I was on Vanguard today looking to buy two polos for the upcoming encampment and I realized Vanguard is now selling another type of CAP Polo shirt that they say is part of the CAP Working uniform. Now normally I wouldn't be bothered, but it does seem to be different then the actual one specified in CAPM 39-1.

Male short sleeved blue tactical golf shirt, a.k.a. corporate working uniform shirt, with Civil Air Patrol (CAP) seal embroidered in full color on right side. With strategically placed mic clips and dual pen pockets. Built for performance, this snag-proof, moisture-wicking, odor-fighting shirt will keep you sharp and professional-looking. 6.6-ounce snag-proof polyester, Double-needle stitching throughout, Tag-free label, Flat knit collar, 3-button placket with dyed-to-match buttons, Mic clips at center placket and shoulders, Raglan sleeves, Reinforced dual pen pockets on left sleeve, Side vents, and Drop tail to stay tucked in.

[Holding Pattern]

I always wanted a tactical golf shirt...

[jb512]

Mine came in a couple of weeks ago. The material and cut are very nice but be warned that it runs big.

[Eclipse]

It's about time they got rid of the old-man pocket, and made these things out of modern materials.



https://www.vanguardmil.com/products/civil-air-patrol-uniform-tactical-golf-shirt-with-seal-male?variant=44698730255

[Pace]

Now that looks nice. I might actually wear the Polo combo now.

[Ozzy]

Mine came in a couple of weeks ago. The material and cut are very nice but be warned that it runs big.

Welp, I bought two of them and had them customized... hope they aren't too big then! How long did it take you to get yours?

[jb512]

Mine came in a couple of weeks ago. The material and cut are very nice but be warned that it runs big.

Welp, I bought two of them and had them customized... hope they aren't too big then! How long did it take you to get yours?

I had mine customized also and I think it only took a couple of weeks if I remember correctly. They are definitely worth the extra cost.

[Paul Creed III]

I always wanted a tactical golf shirt...

Does that mean one has to wear tactical pants with the tactical polo?

/s

[Huey Driver]

I definitely recommend one size down. Mine's like 1.5 sizes too large.

[Paul Creed III]

I definitely recommend one size down. Mine's like 1.5 sizes too large.

How does the fabric compare to the polos from vendors like Under Armor or Nike?

[zippity]

Nice, there's a women's version too. Who wants to be the guinea pig to check the sizing? (I would but I've already blown my birthday money.) 

[Phillip]

It looks like a 5.11 brand polo.  If it is, the sizing can be a bit weird.  I have two 5.11 polos, one medium and one large.  The medium is a bit tight, but not uncomfortable.  The large feels like an extra large.  If I were to have a choice, I'd go with a Propper ICE polo, as their medium seems to be just right.  Unfortunately, they don't offer the proper (no pun intended) shade of blue.

[etodd]

It's about time they got rid of the old-man pocket,....

Huh?  Hope not! I need to go look and order a couple extras with pocket before they run out. That pocket is where my cell phone stays while flying!

[etodd]

It's about time they got rid of the old-man pocket, and made these things out of modern materials.

^^^^^ Thats the 'tactical' version. Appears to be a darker blue.

They still have the regular version with pocket:

https://www.vanguardmil.com/products/civil-air-patrol-male-golf-shirt-with-seal-uniform?variant=1153574684

[68w20]

It's about time they got rid of the old-man pocket, and made these things out of modern materials.

^^^^^ Thats the 'tactical' version. Appears to be a darker blue.

They still have the regular version with pocket:

https://www.vanguardmil.com/products/civil-air-patrol-male-golf-shirt-with-seal-uniform?variant=1153574684

The tactical version is pretty dark.  I saw one at a squadron meeting recently and legitimately thought that the member had had the seal embroidered on a self-purchased black polo.

[Eclipse]

It's about time they got rid of the old-man pocket,....

Huh?  Hope not! I need to go look and order a couple extras with pocket before they run out. That pocket is where my cell phone stays while flying!

I have no doubt of that whatsoever...

[N6RVT]

The tactical version is pretty dark.  I saw one at a squadron meeting recently and legitimately thought that the member had had the seal embroidered on a self-purchased black polo.

Sounds like LAPD blue.  I just ordered one, so when it arrives I will do a side-by-side photo comparison and if I come up with anything significant I will post the pictures here.

[Phillip]

Sounds like LAPD blue.

I just had a quick look at 5.11's website and you're right.  Technically, they call it "Dark Navy" but is basically the same.

I really like this tactical polo variant and gladly purchase one even though I just bought an new "official" polo a few months ago.  I'm concerned though that this new polo has just quietly shown up on Vanguards site without so much as a peep out of National about it.

[NIN]

I'm concerned though that this new polo has just quietly shown up on Vanguards site without so much as a peep out of National about it.

Scuttlebutt says that an update to 39-1 to allow this is "in the works," but the Vanguard side was ready before the CAP side. Or something like that.

strictly scuttlebutt, mind you.

[chuckmilam]

...the Vanguard side was ready before the CAP side.

Something, something, cart before horse, something.

[NIN]

Something, something, cart before horse, something.

Oh, come on, Chuck, you've been at this as long as me. Occasionally, thats how it works.

Otherwise, we'd be saying "something, something, Vanguard, something"

[Eclipse]

...the Vanguard side was ready before the CAP side.

Something, something, cart before horse, something.

Psshhh...the horse hasn't been funded for 10 years and "...the cart's gonna be great, great.  It's gonna be huge..."

The current, broken version is now 3 years old, and everything is still on hold because somebody upgraded
the machine with all the .pdfs on it to Windows 10 and now Acrobat 7 won't work, so they can't change the numbers on the first page.

[Ozzy]

Well, looks like I'll have the polos by either Saturday or Monday... Vanguard just sent me a shipping email. Not too shabby, considering three days to ship the shirts with embroidery added. I'll send some good quality pictures comparing the two and the size differences between the XL regular polo and the XL tactical one.

[coudano]

the real question is can we wear it untucked
it is, after all, tactical.

[Mitchell 1969]

The tactical version is pretty dark.  I saw one at a squadron meeting recently and legitimately thought that the member had had the seal embroidered on a self-purchased black polo.

Sounds like LAPD blue.  I just ordered one, so when it arrives I will do a side-by-side photo comparison and if I come up with anything significant I will post the pictures here.

LAPD calls it "midnight navy."

[BuckeyeDEJ]

"Tactical golf shirt."

What about that strikes me as funny? Other than that with my golf game, other people should be wearing them on the links.

FORE!

[N6RVT]

LAPD calls it "midnight navy."

Well if you want to be super picky we should both be calling it "PANTONE 19-4110".  Except that would actually be a real uniform quality specification and Vanguard doesn't do that.

[chuckmilam]

Oh, come on, Chuck, you've been at this as long as me. Occasionally, thats how it works.

Shh!  You'll blow my cover.  The forum system still thinks I'm new to all this.

[Mitchell 1969]

LAPD calls it "midnight navy."

Well if you want to be super picky we should both be calling it "PANTONE 19-4110".  Except that would actually be a real uniform quality specification and Vanguard doesn't do that.

Not being picky. Just offering a piece of trivia. Retain it and win a bar bet sometime. Or don't. I don't care.

[CAPLTC]

Good.
This is a positive update.
I wish they'd do a button-down as an option too.
Ala:
http://www.511tactical.com/511-tactical-shirt-short-sleeve-cotton.html

[chuckmilam]

A decent 5.11-style button-down might work, as long as it doesn't invoke memories of the CAP guayabera shirt option from the 1990s.  Eeesh. 

[AlphaSigOU]

A decent 5.11-style button-down might work, as long as it doesn't invoke memories of the CAP guayabera shirt option from the 1990s.  Eeesh.

Guayabera shirt? Gedoudadaway, I'm a-gonna...

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPPPPPPHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVVVVVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!
BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!!
BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECCCCCCCCCCCCCCCHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!
YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!


OK, I feel better now that I've turned my guts inside out...           

[Ozzy]

Anyways, I received my shipment today... And it is missing one of the shirts. However the one I did receive I am pleasantly surprised how much I like it. It does look a tad dark compared to the old polo and it is definitely longer, although my old polo has shrunk a bit since I got it. The loops on the shoulders for radio mics aren't as prominent as I expected, which is a good thing IMO. The brand is CornerStone and the shirt is called "Select Snag Proof Tactical Polo" if you want to look it up, the polo seems to get good reviews on Amazon at least...

[chuckmilam]

I wear an XL in the "standard" knit polo...how's the sizing on this one?

[Ozzy]

I wear an XL in the "standard" knit polo...how's the sizing on this one?

How does your standard knit feel? A little snug or big? If it feels like it fits okay or a little loose, I think the XL would be right for you. If it's snug, maybe the 2XL might be better. My standard polo seems to have shrunk a little bit even though it's polyester so while it still fits, it's not as roomy as it used to be. The new polo has a slightly tapered fit it seems so while it fits pretty good now, I hope that although it's made out of polyester, it won't shrink at all or very little.

[Ozzy]

The tactical version is pretty dark.  I saw one at a squadron meeting recently and legitimately thought that the member had had the seal embroidered on a self-purchased black polo.

Sounds like LAPD blue.  I just ordered one, so when it arrives I will do a side-by-side photo comparison and if I come up with anything significant I will post the pictures here.

Color according to the manufacturer is Dark Navy Blue. It does look pretty good though and I'll post pictures tonight

[chuckmilam]

How does your standard knit feel? A little snug or big? If it feels like it fits okay or a little loose, I think the XL would be right for you.

I'm in the okay/little loose area with the XL knit, so this is exactly what I needed to hear.  Thanks!

[Ozzy]

Yeah, XL should be good. And here are the pictures:

Yellowish light:
White-ish light:
Outdoor light:

[SarDragon]

Color-wise, the new shirt is closer in color to my 2003 era polo shirts than to the more recent ones. The fabric is closer, too, 60% cotton, 40% polyester.

My long sleeve shirt has the coarser weave, lighter color fabric, 35% polyester, 65% cotton.

[Paul Creed III]

So, the question is: are the new tactical polos the soon-to-be default, 39-1 approved version since that'll make three versions of the embroidered polo out there - the cotton version that fades after two washes (and is no longer sold), the "new" blended version with the orange label (left side of the photos above) that seems to hold up well, and the new tactical one.

[Eclipse]

Is your name on two lines?

[Ozzy]

Is your name on two lines?

One line, the other line is duty position title

[Eclipse]

Is your name on two lines?

One line, the other line is duty position title

Rog - congrats, I always wanted to be a Zek, just never found the time.

[Ozzy]

Is your name on two lines?

One line, the other line is duty position title

Rog - congrats, I always wanted to be a Zek, just never found the time.

Heh, Was duty position supposed to be under the name? I haven't really seen too many with a duty title

On another note, after talking with Vanguard although they haven't found out what happened to my shirt, they remember making two and that they put *two* into the package but alas one appears to have gone missing. They did say they will get a new one out to me by next week.

[Fubar]

Heh, Was duty position supposed to be under the name? I haven't really seen too many with a duty title

This is all I could find on using a duty title:

5.2.2.3.1. Dark blue knit shirt with embroidered CAP seal. First and last name may be embroidered in white thread on the left breast. No rank designation is authorized. One CAP aviation, occupational badge, specialty track, duty title badge may be embroidered ½ inch over the name.

I dunno what a "duty title badge" is, but I think that's what you have.

[Ozzy]

Heh, Was duty position supposed to be under the name? I haven't really seen too many with a duty title

This is all I could find on using a duty title:

5.2.2.3.1. Dark blue knit shirt with embroidered CAP seal. First and last name may be embroidered in white thread on the left breast. No rank designation is authorized. One CAP aviation, occupational badge, specialty track, duty title badge may be embroidered ½ inch over the name.

I dunno what a "duty title badge" is, but I think that's what you have.

Should probably just be duty title... The first few paragraphs for the Polo state this:

5.2.2.1.1. Dark blue knit shirt (long/short sleeves) with embroidered CAP seal on the right breast. An embroidered name (first and last name) in white thread, and one‐service badge, aviation badge, occupational badge, specialty track badge or duty title on the left breast is optional.

[Mustang]

The profit margin on these is a little obscene. Gall's sells the same shirt for $31.99--which includes a profit of some sort but does not include the embroidered CAP seal. There is no way, however, that the embroidery costs an additional $14. Or even $10. Or $7.

Without getting into a discussion on the poor product quality,  Vanguard's prices in general have gotten out of control. Either NHQ has upped its kickback ("licensing fees"), or we're being gouged since Vanguard has a monopoly. Probably a little of both. 

Either way, it's high time that NHQ put the contract up for bidding again.

[Fubar]

Either way, it's high time that NHQ put the contract up for bidding again.

Is there another company out there capable of handling our account?

[hamburgee]

Either way, it's high time that NHQ put the contract up for bidding again.

*cough* government vendors *cough* (just wishful thinking, I know it'd probably never actually happen)

[Jester]

Either way, it's high time that NHQ put the contract up for bidding again.

Is there another company out there capable of handling our account?

Maybe Ira Green. Maybe.

[SarDragon]

Either way, it's high time that NHQ put the contract up for bidding again.

*cough* government vendors *cough* (just wishful thinking, I know it'd probably never actually happen)

Take a guess on who the primary government vendor is. Starts with  'V'; ends with a 'd'.

[Storm Chaser]

The profit margin on these is a little obscene. Gall's sells the same shirt for $31.99--which includes a profit of some sort but does not include the embroidered CAP seal. There is no way, however, that the embroidery costs an additional $14. Or even $10. Or $7.

Without getting into a discussion on the poor product quality,  Vanguard's prices in general have gotten out of control. Either NHQ has upped its kickback ("licensing fees"), or we're being gouged since Vanguard has a monopoly. Probably a little of both. 

Either way, it's high time that NHQ put the contract up for bidding again.

It all comes down to supply and demand. If we had 100,000 members instead of 57,300+ (only 33,200+ who are senior members), those prices would probably come down a bit. Vanguard prices for Air Force insignias are not as bad as for CAP, but the the Air Force has nearly 488,000 members. That makes a huge difference.

Now, I would be content to paying some of those prices for CAP-specific insignias if the quality and consistency was better. That's where I think CAP can and should to do a better job at developing and enforcing standards with its sole supplier.

[Mustang]

Either way, it's high time that NHQ put the contract up for bidding again.

Is there another company out there capable of handling our account?

Maybe Ira Green. Maybe.

Ira Green could absolutely do it.

[PHall]

Either way, it's high time that NHQ put the contract up for bidding again.

Is there another company out there capable of handling our account?

Maybe Ira Green. Maybe.

Ira Green could absolutely do it.

Did they even put in a bid when the contract came up for renewal last time?

[Eclipse]

Back to the OP - one of my newer members showed up to Night Out last night sporting
the new shirt - it's awesome compared to what has been sold to date.

It's a very professional-looking deep midnight blue, and the material choice means
it's not going to fade to sky blue after three uses or long hours in the sun.

The arm pockets are cool, mike slots seem like they will hold up, and it has the "new"
(gray) seal and very distinct embroidery. It's much closer to the similar material of
my first Bookstore era golf shirt, and will be much more comfortable in hot climes.

Salient discussions of standardization and random, unannounced changes aside, these are a big
win and I can't wait to get mine.

With that said, if VG can just change things on their whim, that pretty much negates any
discussions about materials and vendors, and members ought to be able to find this kind of thing
locally (which they obviously already do). 

There are now probably at least 6-7 different "official" materials and colors of the gold shirt,
not to mention the different seals and inconsistent screen printing on that version.

And a row of seniors in that and gray pants >still< looks better then a gaggle in assorted
field and whites.

[Holding Pattern]

We had an SM or two with the new polo at an activity last week and it was well received.

[Adam B]

There was a SM at my SLS class sporting the new Polo.
It's VERY dark, almost black.

I don't quite understand how VG can just decide that this is a new authorized item, nor do I really believe that $50+ is a fair price, but it did look pretty smashing.
I'm sure I will eventually succumb and purchase it for myself.

[NIN]

I'm due for a new polo shirt.  I think I got mine milliseconds before they started doing the new seal, and of course, I missed the cool new tactical shirt.

I'll wait for 39-1 to be updated, cuz thats generally how I roll, but I hope its soon.

[Eclipse]

I'll wait for 39-1 to be updated, cuz thats generally how I roll, but I hope its soon.

Odds are you'll be spending your first SSI check on this shirt if you wait for a new 39-1.

[Spaceman3750]

Why would there need to be a reg update? It's a dark blue CAP polo.

[Jester]

This may motivate me to finally buy a polo and medium gray britches.

[hamburgee]

Why would there need to be a reg update? It's a dark blue CAP polo.

Different fabric type is probably my guess. I don't know if polyester counts as "knit". But that's just for the really, really picky people.

[arajca]

Why would there need to be a reg update? It's a dark blue CAP polo.

No pocket.

[zippity]

39-1 doesn't say a pocket is required for men, only that the female version of the polo doesn't have one.

5.2.2.1.1. Dark blue knit shirt (long/short sleeves) with embroidered CAP seal on
the right breast. An embroidered name (first and last name) in white thread, and one‐service badge,
aviation badge, occupational badge, specialty track badge or duty title on the left breast is optional. A
female version of this shirt is available without a pocket; females may wear either the male or the female
version.

[Mustang]

Can someone with one of the new shirts tell me how the name & badge are positioned/aligned, relative to the placket and/or CAP seal? 

Gracias.

[Fubar]

39-1 doesn't say a pocket is required for men, only that the female version of the polo doesn't have one.

Well it says women can wear mens (pocket) or women (no pocket) versions of the shirt, while men have to wear the mens polo. The inference here is men wear a shirt with a pocket.

Not of fan of inferences in a regulation though and I certainly wouldn't hold anyone to it.

[Spaceman3750]

The screen printed polo doesn't have a pocket. Seems like a silly thing to sweat in the grand scheme.

[hamburgee]

The screen printed polo doesn't have a pocket. Seems like a silly thing to sweat in the grand scheme.

Seems silly that they authorized two different types of polo instead of one... But I don't know their reason behind that (if they even had one).

[Eclipse]

Seems silly that they authorized two different types of polo instead of one... But I don't know their reason behind that (if they even had one).

There's now at least four (4), including the long sleeve version.

[stillamarine]

I hate that for the embroidered version it puts the seal on the right side and the name on the left side. Yes I'm aware that's what is in 39-1 but with the dozen PD shirts I own it's opposite and just looks funny to me.

[hamburgee]

"... Therefore, it is critical for members to maintain a high standard of dress and personal appearance. The five elements of this standard are neatness, cleanliness, safety, uniformity, and good organizational image."

39-1 seems to be contradicting itself by authorizing two completely different polo shirts... Honestly, I would phase out both of them to be replaced by the new polo. It looks a lot more professional, it won't fade as quickly, it seems to be a solid build, AND there's pen pockets AND mic clips. What's not to love about it?

[Paul Creed III]

"... Therefore, it is critical for members to maintain a high standard of dress and personal appearance. The five elements of this standard are neatness, cleanliness, safety, uniformity, and good organizational image."

39-1 seems to be contradicting itself by authorizing two completely different polo shirts... Honestly, I would phase out both of them to be replaced by the new polo. It looks a lot more professional, it won't fade as quickly, it seems to be a solid build, AND there's pen pockets AND mic clips. What's not to love about it?

Amen. The screen printed one just needs to go away - it is ugly and unprofessional looking in every manner.

[Alaric]

"... Therefore, it is critical for members to maintain a high standard of dress and personal appearance. The five elements of this standard are neatness, cleanliness, safety, uniformity, and good organizational image."

What's not to love about it?

1)  Price

2) Color, it looks more black than blue

3)  No Pocket (yes I know many people don't like them I do)

[Toad1168]

They must be popular, mine is on backorder!   

[arajca]

"... Therefore, it is critical for members to maintain a high standard of dress and personal appearance. The five elements of this standard are neatness, cleanliness, safety, uniformity, and good organizational image."

39-1 seems to be contradicting itself by authorizing two completely different polo shirts... Honestly, I would phase out both of them to be replaced by the new polo. It looks a lot more professional, it won't fade as quickly, it seems to be a solid build, AND there's pen pockets AND mic clips. What's not to love about it?

Amen. The screen printed one just needs to go away - it is ugly and unprofessional looking in every manner.

[whine-mode] But it's cheeeaaap![/whine-mode]

[PHall]

"... Therefore, it is critical for members to maintain a high standard of dress and personal appearance. The five elements of this standard are neatness, cleanliness, safety, uniformity, and good organizational image."

39-1 seems to be contradicting itself by authorizing two completely different polo shirts... Honestly, I would phase out both of them to be replaced by the new polo. It looks a lot more professional, it won't fade as quickly, it seems to be a solid build, AND there's pen pockets AND mic clips. What's not to love about it?

Amen. The screen printed one just needs to go away - it is ugly and unprofessional looking in every manner.

[whine-mode] But it's cheeeaaap![/whine-mode]

That's my go to shirt for dirty work! I don't care if it get's trashed. But the bloody thing is indestructable!

[ProdigalJim]

I ordered mine on Sunday and it arrived tonight.

Alaric, the blue really is more blue "in person" than it is on the screen. It's a dark blue, for sure, but solidly and recognizably blue.

The missing pocket seems to be made up for with the pen pocket on the sleeve. I know some folks put more than pens in the shirt pocket, but there it is. I'm neutral.

The fabric is very nice and overall the shirt is professional-looking.

Mustang, the alignment is quite solid between the wings/name and the seal on the other side, roughly centered across an imaginary line drawn laterally from the center of the seal.

However...

While I get that each generation of Americans is successively larger than the last*, why does this "Men's Small" have short sleeves that touch my elbows? My only gripe is that I think you could lose two inches from the bottom of each sleeve and have a perfect shirt. Heck, in the fire service we used to roll our polo/golf shirt sleeves even higher.

(* - The average American male is one inch taller and 17.6% heavier today than he was in 1960, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The average American woman is also one inch taller than she was in 1960, and 18.5% heavier. We are now the third-heaviest nation on Earth, with only Tonga and Micronesia beating us!)

[Eclipse]

While I get that each generation of Americans is successively larger than the last*, why does this "Men's Small" have short sleeves that touch my elbows?

I have the same issue with the cheapy silk-screened one - sleeves actually could cover my elbows.

While it's new the elastic cuffs seem to hold them up OK, but my guess is that after a few washes they
will be saggy.

Of course with 2 in rotation now and getting the new one soon, "a few washes" is probably more then a year.

[Mustang]

Mustang, the alignment is quite solid between the wings/name and the seal on the other side, roughly centered across an imaginary line drawn laterally from the center of the seal.

Thank you.