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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: AFOEA
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Author Topic: AFOEA  (Read 3124 times)
Arc light
Recruit

Posts: 28
Unit: GLR-KY-050

« on: April 17, 2017, 12:27:18 AM »

So I was reading on the Internet, and on http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2701/~/cap-organizational-excellence-award-(afoea). It said, The Air Force is in the process of determining wear requirements for the AFOEA and we will let CAP members know what those requirements are just as soon as we receive them from the Air Force. What I am confused about is why is there a lot of debate about this award and how long do you think it will take to solve the problem. The main thing is what is the big obstacle from keeping us from wearing this or is there an obstacle at all?

Thank you
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Levi Lockling
Seasoned Member

Posts: 294
Unit: AZ-085

« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2017, 12:50:28 AM »

Well, as it is an AD award, anyone who wear AF blues could theoretically wear the AFOUA without too many problems.

Now, the problem is for the Corporate folks. The corporate uniforms do not allow for AD awards. So, do we just not let them join in on the festivities? Do we make an allowance for just this award? Do we not allow anyone to wear it and just have something hanging on the wall? That's what the AF is determining.
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1stLt Levi H. Lockling
SrA, USAF, 1A851J
Charlie flight, NBB 2013
lordmonar
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 10,556

« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2017, 01:00:04 AM »

Add the additional wrinkle of CAP members who are also AD/NG/RES members of the Air Force.....or may become one in the future.

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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
Levi Lockling
Seasoned Member

Posts: 294
Unit: AZ-085

« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2017, 01:51:23 AM »

Add the additional wrinkle of CAP members who are also AD/NG/RES members of the Air Force.....or may become one in the future.


That's true too. I don't know if, as an AD member, my membership in CAP allows wear of an AFOUA even if my AD unit has never earned it. Again, this is what the AF is determing. Though it may seem simple, there are a lot of things that the AF are looking at in terms of wear of the award.
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1stLt Levi H. Lockling
SrA, USAF, 1A851J
Charlie flight, NBB 2013
kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 608

« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2017, 10:14:53 AM »

This is a difficult task for the AF because the award is for military members.  While technically civilian employees of organizations that earn this award receive it too, they don't wear a uniform so there isn't an issue of if they can wear the ribbon or not.  For current or former military, they are not assigned to CAP through official USAF orders so technically they can't wear it either.  Then there is the issue of wearing (and earning) a military decoration by minors (cadets) and those adults who are not military.

Lots of layers to this issue and it will probably require an ICL to AFI 36-2803, CAPR 39-3 and CAPM 39-1.
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Arc light
Recruit

Posts: 28
Unit: GLR-KY-050

« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2017, 10:28:46 AM »

Do you know long it will take or a ballpark estimate of when the higher ups will make a decision? One more month? Two?
Thank you
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kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 608

« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2017, 11:06:40 AM »

Do you know long it will take or a ballpark estimate of when the higher ups will make a decision? One more month? Two?
Thank you

I doubt it is a very high priority with the USAF so it could take a VERY long time.
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 9,787
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2017, 12:59:43 PM »

As in months, or possibly years. Don't hold your breath. Find something more important to devote your time to.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
MSG Mac
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,721
Unit: MER-MD-071

« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2017, 02:28:24 PM »

I know several members of the CGAux who were awarded the MUC and wear it with no problem. If it was the intention of the AF that CAP members not wear the award, it wouldn't have been awarded.
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Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,637

« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2017, 08:42:14 PM »

I know several members of the CGAux who were awarded the MUC and wear it with no problem. If it was the intention of the AF that CAP members not wear the award, it wouldn't have been awarded.

You said it right there Coast Guard Auxiliary. Different service, different rules...
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 27,350

« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2017, 09:00:45 PM »

I know several members of the CGAux who were awarded the MUC and wear it with no problem. If it was the intention of the AF that CAP members not wear the award, it wouldn't have been awarded.

The "question" was likely never even considered to be a problem.

Any other time the USAF presents the award, either those receiving it are authorized the wear with no question (service personnel),
or have no means to wear it at all (civilian personnel).

The question of whether non-service civilians could or should wear it on an auxiliary's military-style uniform was likely brought up sometime after it was awarded,
and that doesn't even bring into play the further questions of whether service personnel who are also CAP members could wear it on their military uniforms,
nor how it looks generally to present an award ~50% of the membership could never wear regardless due to the lack of uniform choice.

This was a "Hey, that'd be nice." gesture as a culmination of the anniversary year, nothing more, nothing less.  Based solely on the published
criteria, it's still questionable as to whether CAP actually qualified at all, except that, just as with some "interesting" internal CAP decorations,
qualified or not, the award was, in fact, presented, making that particular branch of the argument moot.

The streamer is the beginning and the end of the dec, move on.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

shuman14
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 919
Unit: NHQ-996

« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2017, 09:55:33 AM »

Just to throw a little gasoline on this fire...

As was pointed out the US Coast Guard Auxiliary routinely awards Military Unit Citations (PUC-CG, CGUC, MUC-CG, etc.), certain Military Service ribbons (Special Operations Service Ribbon,  Coast Guard Recruiting Service Ribbon, etc.) and occasionally decorations (Gold and Silver Lifesaving Medals) to Auxiliarists.  As was also pointed out, different Service different rules but for anyone trying to make the case for the benefit of CAP members to be able to wear it as an actual decoration on the USAF Style uniforms, they could cite this as an argument "FOR" authorizing this.

Again, different rules for different Services, but whenever I was awarded a USCG Decoration, I was able to get a copy of the Award uploaded into the Army's iPERMS system, have the award properly documented on my DA Form 2-1 and in my online ORB and was granted authorization to wear them on my Army uniform. Only once did my Reserve unit ask for additional documentation, which was a simple memorandum stating I was a member of the unit at the time the unit award was presented and that I was entitled to its award.

So depending on how the Air Force handles this process on the distribution and wear of the AFOEA by CAP, members who are also AC, RC or NG Servicemembers may be able to carry it over to their respective Services.
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Joseph J. Clune
Major, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 -1998, 2000 - Present     CAP (National Patron) 2013 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000       USCGAux: 2004 - Present
kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 608

« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2017, 10:31:14 AM »

Just to throw a little gasoline on this fire...

As was pointed out the US Coast Guard Auxiliary routinely awards Military Unit Citations (PUC-CG, CGUC, MUC-CG, etc.), certain Military Service ribbons (Special Operations Service Ribbon,  Coast Guard Recruiting Service Ribbon, etc.) and occasionally decorations (Gold and Silver Lifesaving Medals) to Auxiliarists.  As was also pointed out, different Service different rules but for anyone trying to make the case for the benefit of CAP members to be able to wear it as an actual decoration on the USAF Style uniforms, they could cite this as an argument "FOR" authorizing this.

Again, different rules for different Services, but whenever I was awarded a USCG Decoration, I was able to get a copy of the Award uploaded into the Army's iPERMS system, have the award properly documented on my DA Form 2-1 and in my online ORB and was granted authorization to wear them on my Army uniform. Only once did my Reserve unit ask for additional documentation, which was a simple memorandum stating I was a member of the unit at the time the unit award was presented and that I was entitled to its award.

So depending on how the Air Force handles this process on the distribution and wear of the AFOEA by CAP, members who are also AC, RC or NG Servicemembers may be able to carry it over to their respective Services.

Those are all very good points but I'm thinking the real problem with the AFOEA ribbon wear are cadets.  I do not think that the Air Force wants to give a military decoration to a minor.  That is just my thought.
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shuman14
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 919
Unit: NHQ-996

« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2017, 12:52:11 PM »

Quote
Those are all very good points but I'm thinking the real problem with the AFOEA ribbon wear are cadets.  I do not think that the Air Force wants to give a military decoration to a minor.  That is just my thought.

I could see that as an issue but the Cadets at West Point were all awarded NDSM so I would guess the Air Force Academy Cadets got them too. I would think it's possible for a Freshman to be only 17 and technically a minor but be in the various Academies.

Also I know it's possible to enlisted in the Army Reserve or the Army National Guard at 17, while a Junior in High School and attend Basic Training during the summer between your Junior and Senior years. You need a parent/guardian permission and a letter from the principal stating the enlistee is "on track to graduate" and that Military service will not interfere with their academic program.

So it's quite possible to be in the Military and be a minor, but the USAF is different from the Army so different rules.
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Joseph J. Clune
Major, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 -1998, 2000 - Present     CAP (National Patron) 2013 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000       USCGAux: 2004 - Present
kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 608

« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2017, 01:13:18 PM »

Quote
Those are all very good points but I'm thinking the real problem with the AFOEA ribbon wear are cadets.  I do not think that the Air Force wants to give a military decoration to a minor.  That is just my thought.

I could see that as an issue but the Cadets at West Point were all awarded NDSM so I would guess the Air Force Academy Cadets got them too. I would think it's possible for a Freshman to be only 17 and technically a minor but be in the various Academies.

Also I know it's possible to enlisted in the Army Reserve or the Army National Guard at 17, while a Junior in High School and attend Basic Training during the summer between your Junior and Senior years. You need a parent/guardian permission and a letter from the principal stating the enlistee is "on track to graduate" and that Military service will not interfere with their academic program.

So it's quite possible to be in the Military and be a minor, but the USAF is different from the Army so different rules.

Everyone you mentioned is in the military so that is a big difference between them and an 8th grade cadet.
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shuman14
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 919
Unit: NHQ-996

« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2017, 09:58:30 AM »

Quote
Everyone you mentioned is in the military so that is a big difference between them and an 8th grade cadet.

True that is a big difference but to point back to the USCG Auxiliary you can be 17 and never in the Military and be awarded USCG decorations.

Bottom line is the USAF is gonna do what it wants to do regarding this Award and our opinions will mean little in that decision.

So stand by to standby.
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Joseph J. Clune
Major, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 -1998, 2000 - Present     CAP (National Patron) 2013 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000       USCGAux: 2004 - Present
GaryVC
Member

Posts: 91
Unit: PCR-NV-070

« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2017, 12:39:11 PM »

Add the additional wrinkle of CAP members who are also AD/NG/RES members of the Air Force.....or may become one in the future.

And retired. I received this award twice while I was on active duty.
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etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 566

« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2017, 09:58:07 PM »

Find something more important to devote your time to.

I've wanted to say that in a few dozen other threads over the last few months, but didn't have the nerve.  >:D
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LATORRECA
Forum Regular

Posts: 164

« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2017, 02:11:08 AM »

Ribbon chasers every body gets a medal


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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CyBorgII
Recruit

Posts: 14
Unit: USCG AUX

« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2017, 09:23:48 PM »

Forgive the intrusion from probably very few CT habitues' favourite former CAP member.  No, I have not been successful at rejoining CAP but I am at last at a measure of peace with it - not completely there, but on the way.

I am back in the CG Auxiliary (and it's groovy, man) and a few weeks ago I e-mailed Susie Parker about this ribbon.  I was in CAP during the time eligible and I asked Ms Parker about wearing the AFOEA ribbon on my CGAux uniform.  CAP ribbons cannot be worn on the CGAux uniform but of course certain Air Force ones can.

Her reply was 'the Air Force has not yet made a decision on who can wear it and until they do I have to say "no, not at this time."'

So I will await with no great alacrity the decision of the brass of a sister service (fancy way of saying 'if they authorise it, cool; if not, life goes on.'

I suggest that my former CAP colleagues do the same, though I understand the significance of what is probably the first potential authorisation by the AF for CAP to wear an active AF ribbon.
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Permanently ex-CAP, now back in the CG Auxiliary and digging it no end.
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: AFOEA
 


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