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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Solomon Boots
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DocJekyll
Member

Posts: 73

« on: April 11, 2017, 01:32:46 PM »

So, after wearing out my last pair of boots for the last 10+ years, it seems as though it's about time to replace my 'long in the tooth' current pair. I've been a huge fan of my Solomon 4D GTX's that I use on the range and out and about. They've never let me down, but they for sure aren't for everyone with the price tag they usually have attached. I think they'd be really good for SAR and even flight duty. Come to find out  though, they also make uniform height boots.

Enter, the Jungle Ultra Boot
http://www.salomon.com/us/product/jungle-ultra.html#article-2309672-0



It looks like the fabric is a light grey, and the main part of the boot is dark grey but I just confirmed with a rep on the phone that the boot is black and the fabric is only slightly lighter than the boot itself. It just looks lighter because it's a suede-like, non-polish-able boot and the lighting from taking the picture. So here's the question: The ABU wear memorandum states "Footwear: Black Combat Boots." and the 39-1 5.1.1.7. "Footwear. Black socks and black combat boots are mandatory with this uniform." for the BDU's, but do not specify the boots should be polished, or that it has to be a polish-able boot at all. Is it good to go? As with many things in the 39-1, it seems this is a bit of a grey area.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 01:46:45 PM by DocJekyll » Logged
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NIN
VIP

Posts: 4,431
Unit: of issue

« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2017, 01:46:49 PM »

This are not black leather (or leather & nylon-upper) combat boots.

the general definition of combat boot in our context is black, smooth grained leather.

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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
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DocJekyll
Member

Posts: 73

« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2017, 02:03:27 PM »

This are not black leather (or leather & nylon-upper) combat boots.

the general definition of combat boot in our context is black, smooth grained leather.

I suppose that could be one way of looking at it. But, does the absence of leather in a high quality boot with slightly more advanced technology coming from the civilian side of design and engineering preclude the use of the boot if it meets the color requirements and overall shape and form? (Being a black 8in boot designed for those in rolls that we as CAP find ourselves in?) Combat boot can mean a lot of things in today's world...
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jeders
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,945

« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2017, 02:23:35 PM »

This are not black leather (or leather & nylon-upper) combat boots.

the general definition of combat boot in our context is black, smooth grained leather.
But, does the absence of leather in a high quality boot with slightly more advanced technology coming from the civilian side of design and engineering preclude the use of the boot

Yes.
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If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse
Eclipse
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Posts: 27,250

« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2017, 02:30:42 PM »

Leather is >not< required for either BDU, CFU or ABU.

CAPM 39-1 Page 92:
https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/M391_E6F33EAAEC28A.pdf
"6.4.3. Footwear (males/females) Combat boots. Will be worn with the BDU, or the flight duty
uniform. Black, with or without safety toe, plain rounded toe or rounded capped toe with or without
perforated seam. Zipper or elastic inserts optional, mesh inserts (for “jungle boot” style) are optional;
smooth or scotch-grained leather or man-made material, and may have a high gloss or patent finish. The
black combat boot can be worn (optional) with the service dress and service uniforms when not wearing a
skirt, maternity service dress and/or maternity jumper. Laces will either be tied and tucked in the boot or
tied and wrapped around the boot. No bowtie bootlaces will be visible. Any logos will be the same color
as the boot. "


Looks to me like the above meets the spec, assuming the are black.

This I also learned:

Boots are now required with flightsuits and the Corporate Field Uniform.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 02:33:56 PM by Eclipse » Logged

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NIN
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Posts: 4,431
Unit: of issue

« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2017, 02:56:55 PM »

Leather is >not< required for either BDU, CFU or ABU.

CAPM 39-1 Page 92:
https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/M391_E6F33EAAEC28A.pdf
"6.4.3. Footwear (males/females) Combat boots. Will be worn with the BDU, or the flight duty
uniform. Black, with or without safety toe, plain rounded toe or rounded capped toe with or without
perforated seam. Zipper or elastic inserts optional, mesh inserts (for “jungle boot” style) are optional;
smooth or scotch-grained leather or man-made material, and may have a high gloss or patent finish. The
black combat boot can be worn (optional) with the service dress and service uniforms when not wearing a
skirt, maternity service dress and/or maternity jumper. Laces will either be tied and tucked in the boot or
tied and wrapped around the boot. No bowtie bootlaces will be visible. Any logos will be the same color
as the boot. "


Looks to me like the above meets the spec, assuming the are black.

This I also learned:

Boots are now required with flightsuits and the Corporate Field Uniform.

OP's boots are not "smooth or scotch-grained leather or man-made material, and may have a high gloss or patent finish."

the part of the boot that is not the nylon "mesh" (jungle-boot-style) is rough out leather.


Otherwise, these would be authorized: http://www.danner.com/wildland-tactical-firefighter-8-black.html?currency=USD&gclid=CjwKEAjw_bHHBRD4qbKukMiVgU0SJADr08ZZhswVa4h-KidPrweO6b00TPvvShk_A6JlosjF7jSwBBoCzvnw_wcB

And they're not, since they're not "smooth or scotch-grained leather or man-made material, and may have a high gloss or patent finish."
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
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Eclipse
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Posts: 27,250

« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2017, 03:05:37 PM »

((*sigh*)) I suppose you're right.

The points Doc makes are salient, but under the current definition, those wouldn't meet the spec.
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DocJekyll
Member

Posts: 73

« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2017, 03:07:48 PM »

Leather is >not< required for either BDU, CFU or ABU.

CAPM 39-1 Page 92:
https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/M391_E6F33EAAEC28A.pdf
"6.4.3. Footwear (males/females) Combat boots. Will be worn with the BDU, or the flight duty
uniform. Black, with or without safety toe, plain rounded toe or rounded capped toe with or without
perforated seam. Zipper or elastic inserts optional, mesh inserts (for “jungle boot” style) are optional;
smooth or scotch-grained leather or man-made material, and may have a high gloss or patent finish. The
black combat boot can be worn (optional) with the service dress and service uniforms when not wearing a
skirt, maternity service dress and/or maternity jumper. Laces will either be tied and tucked in the boot or
tied and wrapped around the boot. No bowtie bootlaces will be visible. Any logos will be the same color
as the boot. "


Looks to me like the above meets the spec, assuming the are black.

This I also learned:

Boots are now required with flightsuits and the Corporate Field Uniform.

OP's boots are not "smooth or scotch-grained leather or man-made material, and may have a high gloss or patent finish."

the part of the boot that is not the nylon "mesh" (jungle-boot-style) is rough out leather.


Otherwise, these would be authorized: http://www.danner.com/wildland-tactical-firefighter-8-black.html?currency=USD&gclid=CjwKEAjw_bHHBRD4qbKukMiVgU0SJADr08ZZhswVa4h-KidPrweO6b00TPvvShk_A6JlosjF7jSwBBoCzvnw_wcB

And they're not, since they're not "smooth or scotch-grained leather or man-made material, and may have a high gloss or patent finish."

But they are a "...or man made material" and not leather at all, as Solomon makes primarily synthetic boots. It also says it "may have a high gloss or patent finish", not that it "shall". I'm having some trouble figuring where you're making the determination given the information from Eclipse's clarification in the 39-1 as per the quote it does meet those requirements.
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Eclipse
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Posts: 27,250

« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2017, 03:17:08 PM »

The website says they are leather...

"NUBUCK LEATHER
Quality full-grain leather material for longer wear and durability"

There's also the non-trivial reality that they aren't even remotely "black", which makes the rest of the conversation moot.
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The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

DocJekyll
Member

Posts: 73

« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2017, 03:27:17 PM »

The website says they are leather...

"NUBUCK LEATHER
Quality full-grain leather material for longer wear and durability"

There's also the non-trivial reality that they aren't even remotely "black", which makes the rest of the conversation moot.

For some reason I didn't see the "Nubuck Leather" on the site. Thanks for that. Although in my very first post I mentioned that a phone call to Solomon did confirm that they are actually black, although the photo's lighting made it seem more grey.


Edit: I may just go ahead and wait until their Fall 2017 version to eliminate all doubt, see below:
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 03:31:13 PM by DocJekyll » Logged
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Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 799
Unit: GA-001/CV

« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2017, 04:10:53 PM »

For reference (boots are not boots) we're not alone in clarifying authorized footwear in a big commercial market:


https://kitup.military.com/2014/07/chandler-clarifies-boots-soldiers-can-wear.html


I've already seen CAP members attempting to wear off-black (grayish), rough-out commercial boots with their ABUs. In my new "job" I'm not looking forward to having the discussion with our folks on telling them that they spent their money on fancy cool boots that they can't wear with their new ABUs.

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