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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: New Encampment Guide (March 2017)
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UWONGO2
Member

Posts: 80

« on: April 11, 2017, 12:03:47 AM »

While looking up something for encampment I came across a new CAPP 52-24 (now known as CAPP 60-70):

https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/Encampment_Guide_2017_3285B33361E56.pdf

This revised pamphlet does not appear on the pamphlets page and if there was any kind of announcement via email or the cadet blog I missed it. I'm more than slightly peeved a new pamphlet was published without notification last month when 90% of my encampment planning is done.

A quick run-through shows one new class (for which I don't have time on the schedule for) and two cadet positions being renamed. There is also a reinforcement to the recent push to charge more for encampment.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2017, 12:14:15 AM »

I can't even find a meme that characterizes my reaction to this one week before encampment.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2017, 12:19:29 AM »

The handbook has been updated as well, looks like the corrections we sent upstream
were made, so kudos on that.

https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/Cadet_Encampment_Handbook_2017_Redu_25FD75FD645BA.pdf

One would have to assume that the box we have is still the old version with all typos and issues.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2017, 12:22:34 AM »

The slides and presentations, however, have not been corrected, at least the couple I checked
just now, so presumably there are also still issues with the tests.

Poor Gabby...
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NIN
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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2017, 08:05:51 AM »

I can't even find a meme that characterizes my reaction to this one week before encampment.

"Use the old one."
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CAPDCCMOM
Seasoned Member

Posts: 244

« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2017, 09:18:08 AM »

I am looking at a packing list requiring web gear and a 24 hour pack for a "Land Nav" class. I checked CAPP 52-24, I did not know about the new pamphlet either, and ES and Ground Team are not listed in the Enacmpment syllabus. Is it reasonable to expet parent to come up with upwards of $150 of gear and equipment on top of the regular packing list?
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Eclipse
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« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2017, 09:30:26 AM »

I am looking at a packing list requiring web gear and a 24 hour pack for a "Land Nav" class. I checked CAPP 52-24, I did not know about the new pamphlet either, and ES and Ground Team are not listed in the Enacmpment syllabus. Is it reasonable to expet parent to come up with upwards of $150 of gear and equipment on top of the regular packing list?

ES and Ground Team are not part of, and haven't been for a couple of decades, the encampment curriculum -
it's primarily a leadership and aerospace curriculum now (as it generally always has been).  There are a lot of activities
which are casually referred to as "encampments" which actually aren't.

As long as the "required" hours and topics are covered, the Encampment CC and Commandant have a lot of latitude in regards
to electives and extracurricular, so a Land Nav isn't off the boards unreasonable, but having to buy 24 hour gear for an encampment,
would be, IMHO, excessive unless ES is the intended focus of the activity, and then it's not going to be an "encampment", per se,
it's going to be "something else."

Without putting too fine point on it, if you're spending $150 for initial 24 gear, you're spending 2-3 times what you need to. 
Most of it it likely already in your house.
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CAPDCCMOM
Seasoned Member

Posts: 244

« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2017, 09:33:36 AM »

Mandanted contact hours for Encampment per CAPP 52-24, page 19:

Leadership 20 Hours
AE 10 Hours
Fitness 8 Hours
Character Development 4 Hours

Total 42 Contact Hours

I feel this whole ES thing with equipment is quite excessive with a schedule as above.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2017, 09:43:49 AM »

Again, I would tend to agree, because that's not what encampment is "about", but with that said,
some of that 20 hours of "Leadership" could well include the Land Nav.
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Spaceman3750
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Posts: 2,609

« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2017, 10:03:41 AM »

Quote
Therefore, CAPís suggested best practice is for encampments to aim for a tuition rate of at least $225, a $75 increase over CAP average tution in 2016.

No... Just no.

This is, in no way, in the best interest of cadets and their families. And continues to ignore the operational reality that the summer camps that we keep comparing rates to run facilities that often cost in the hundreds of thousands a year to maintain, and millions to acquire and build - driving their costs up. Meanwhile, most CAP encampments use military facilities of varying types that are provided for free. Comparing the two is apples to oranges, and then to say that we should raise encampment costs "because" is outrageous.

If encampments are running on such a shoestring budget that they can't provide a meaningful program, then by all means raise the cost to something that allows you more breathing room. But for those that aren't, increasing the cost of of a youth-serving activity for no reason is absurd.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 10:49:33 AM by Spaceman3750 » Logged
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UWONGO2
Member

Posts: 80

« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2017, 02:19:17 AM »

I received a box of cadet handbooks and an encampment guide in March from NHQ. Both are the previous version.
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Paul Creed III
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Posts: 189
Unit: GLR-OH-254

« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2017, 08:54:43 AM »

Quote
Therefore, CAPís suggested best practice is for encampments to aim for a tuition rate of at least $225, a $75 increase over CAP average tution in 2016.

If encampments are running on such a shoestring budget that they can't provide a meaningful program, then by all means raise the cost to something that allows you more breathing room. But for those that aren't, increasing the cost of of a youth-serving activity for no reason is absurd.

Concur 100%. I have cadets in my AOR who have been placed on the CEAP waitlist and simply cannot afford to go. Yes, I know Encampment's cheaper than other youth camps; doesn't change the fact that some folks just don't have the spare nickels and raising the cost just to raise the cost doesn't compute.

In an ideal world, Encampment would cost the very same in every Wing and the cheaper-to-run encampments would help to off-set the costs of the more-expensive-to-run ones but that would take some serious coordination between all of the wings to figure that out.
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Lt Col Paul Creed III, CAP
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MajorM
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Posts: 119
Unit: WI-037

« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2017, 01:22:05 PM »

Well the new 1-2 says that OPRs are the approving authority for non-directive publications. So it's entirely possible just publishing it to the encampment page is legit, though about as dumb as ever. No announcement, no posting to eServices, not even a heads up to Wing DCPs is pretty much inexcusably bad staff work.


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Eclipse
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« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2017, 01:31:44 PM »

Another thing - Pamphlets are back to being non-directive and "guidance only", yet this is a pamphlet and
uses terms such as "mandatory", which by reg it isn't.

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Fubar
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 620

« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2017, 07:07:05 PM »

It looks like CAPR 52-16 has a bit of a cheat:

Quote from: CAPR 52-16 para 9-2b
Program Guidance. CAP encampments will be conducted in accordance with CAPP 52-24, Cadet
Encampment Guide. Encampments may issue operating instructions, handbooks, training materials, etc.,
that amplify, but do not contradict or lessen, that documentís guidance

So the reg tells you to follow a pamphlet, which other regs tell you are not directive  ;D

Bottom line, I at least understand NHQ's expectations as it's spelled out for everyone. Common sense should prevail.
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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: New Encampment Guide (March 2017)
 


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