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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Duty Positions for the Technologically Challenged?
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Author Topic: Duty Positions for the Technologically Challenged?  (Read 2301 times)
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 562

« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2017, 06:54:23 PM »


eTodd: Currently, he is the transportation officer. However, we have had no vehicles, so he's been able to coast as that. Now that we may be getting a vehicle, I know he won't be able to accurately do the job.


HaHa .... it might take care of itself. Maybe he has enjoyed being the Transportation Officer simply because he had to do nothing and just coast. Once you have a vehicle, he might step back anyway. Go ahead now and send him a refresher list of what he will be responsible for with the vehicle ... and you might be surprised how quick he asks for 'another' Transportation Officer to help out.
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kcebnaes
Member

Posts: 87
Unit: GLR-OH-064

« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2017, 09:29:25 AM »


eTodd: Currently, he is the transportation officer. However, we have had no vehicles, so he's been able to coast as that. Now that we may be getting a vehicle, I know he won't be able to accurately do the job.


HaHa .... it might take care of itself. Maybe he has enjoyed being the Transportation Officer simply because he had to do nothing and just coast. Once you have a vehicle, he might step back anyway. Go ahead now and send him a refresher list of what he will be responsible for with the vehicle ... and you might be surprised how quick he asks for 'another' Transportation Officer to help out.

That's actually a good point. I may call him and explain exactly what he will have to do, and politely give him the option of stepping down if he feels he's unable to do the work.
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Maj Sean Beck
Ohio Wing
Group VI Commander
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 27,332

« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2017, 09:42:16 AM »

That's actually a good point. I may call him and explain exactly what he will have to do, and politely give him the option of stepping down if he feels he's unable to do the work.

I would say that's reasonable as long as you don't have an SUI in the offing - Transport is one of the tabs I'm always
happiest about when we don't have a vehicle.

Not difficult, but a lot of moving pieces and you have to rely on people outside your chain to do the right thing when they use it.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

kcebnaes
Member

Posts: 87
Unit: GLR-OH-064

« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2017, 09:47:04 AM »


Not difficult, but a lot of moving pieces and you have to rely on people outside your chain to do the right thing when they use it.

Luckily, I'm *possibly* getting this vehicle for "command functions" (driving to subordinate units, Group meetings, Wing meetings, recruiting, etc.) I have a 19 county territory, and besides the unit in my town, the nearest is 50 miles away! P So the only person using it will be me.
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Maj Sean Beck
Ohio Wing
Group VI Commander
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 27,332

« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2017, 09:54:02 AM »

I am totally coming to OHWG for no other reason then to borrow that vehicle!

Also, at random times I am going to sneak up to it and change the air pressure labels.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

kcebnaes
Member

Posts: 87
Unit: GLR-OH-064

« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2017, 09:56:45 AM »

Please do! That would be entertaining to say the least!
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Maj Sean Beck
Ohio Wing
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NIN
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« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2017, 11:47:26 AM »

That's actually a good point. I may call him and explain exactly what he will have to do, and politely give him the option of stepping down if he feels he's unable to do the work.

I would say that's reasonable as long as you don't have an SUI in the offing - Transport is one of the tabs I'm always
happiest about when we don't have a vehicle.

Not difficult, but a lot of moving pieces and you have to rely on people outside your chain to do the right thing when they use it.

My sq is around the corner from Wing HQ. We need a van, we ask the HQ transportation officer. The only thing my transportation officer does (don't have one, my logistics officer handles) is licensing. Yay.
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
AirAux
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 737

« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2017, 11:57:22 AM »

So, we offer world class service to the handicapped but not to those technologically challenged?  Interesting.  Go ahead, eat the weak ones, but remember, you too will become old and worthless and wonder why no one wants you after having served for 40 years.  [darn], you guys are heartless.....
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chuckmilam
Recruit

Posts: 23
Unit: GLR-KY-216

« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2017, 04:54:22 PM »

So, we offer world class service to the handicapped but not to those technologically challenged?

There is quite a difference between those who cannot walk and those who stubbornly refuse to do so.
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AirAux
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 737

« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2017, 09:14:03 AM »

Aren't we the high and mighty and able to discern between those that can't and those that won't.  For some people, the new technology is beyond their abilities.  We do not all have 120 IQ and we were not all born with an I-Phone in our mouth.  Some of us remember not having telephones or televisions, but we have contributed greatly throughout the years.  Some of us do not have the skills to type.  There is a big difference in the ability to do something and the inability to do something.  Don't worry, with the way technology is advancing, you will soon get your opportunity to be looked down on. 
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NC Hokie
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 865
Unit: MER-NC-057

« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2017, 10:11:20 AM »

Aren't we the high and mighty and able to discern between those that can't and those that won't.

Please reread the OP...

Hello CapTalk Hive mind:

I have an older gentlemen on my Group staff who point blank refuses to get with the times. What are some duty positions that don't use that much technology? I keep thinking of positions, but then I remember that most of that job is on eServices (Admin, Personnel, etc.)

Bear in mind that this is the type of guy that does not answer emails, and will basically only call when contact is wanted to be made. It's crazy annoying, and fairly frustrating for a younger CC who is trying to modernize.


So...thoughts??

The very first line indicates that the senior member in question falls into your won't category.  Your larger point is well taken, but it does not apply in this case.
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William Hess, Maj, CAP
Tar River Actual
Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2017, 10:31:21 AM »

Aren't we the high and mighty and able to discern between those that can't and those that won't.  For some people, the new technology is beyond their abilities.  We do not all have 120 IQ and we were not all born with an I-Phone in our mouth.  Some of us remember not having telephones or televisions, but we have contributed greatly throughout the years.  Some of us do not have the skills to type.  There is a big difference in the ability to do something and the inability to do something.  Don't worry, with the way technology is advancing, you will soon get your opportunity to be looked down on.


I've got SMs in their 50s who are more tech savvy than I am in my 20s. I have a SM in his 80s who not only emails, plans PD courses, but also texts me regularly when necessary. Then I've got SMs in their 60s who don't know how to add a contact to their cell. Most are willing to learn/reach out for help. Some? Some talk "back in my day", and then tell me why they can't do X.


Whom do you think I'll focus on more?
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Eclipse
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« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2017, 10:44:20 AM »

Aren't we the high and mighty and able to discern between those that can't and those that won't. 

The discernment is not a mission of CAP per se, and the end result is the same.

I am unable to fly an airplane, therefore I cannot be a pilot, "why" is irrelevant, since CAP has little ability to change that.

I am an experienced motorcycle rider and instructor.  CAP has no need for the former skill, but may be able to exploit
the latter in a general sense.  If I am focused on only using the former, and uninterested in bringing the latter to
the table, "why" is irrelevant since CAP has little ability to change that.

For some people, the new technology is beyond their abilities.

Generally only because they have decided not to be interested, not because of actual physical or mental limitations.

We do not all have 120 IQ and we were not all born with an I-Phone in our mouth. 

Companies like Apple and Google have spent billions to make technology simple to use for even the most
advanced technophobe.  YouTube has insured that simple instructions for doing anything computer-related or
otherwise, are one click away.

An advanced IQ isn't remotely needed to use computers, in fact, literally the reverse, and in cases after case,
technology is an enabler for those with diminished physical or mental capabilities.

Some of us remember not having telephones or televisions, but we have contributed greatly throughout the years.

A lecture on "What I did ten years ago." won't help a unit earn a QCUA today, teach a cadet to drill, find someone who is in distress,
or plan an activity, yet many people believe simply remembering "how great it was" somehow helps accomplish something.

For some reason people fall into the rut of believing not being able to contribute today, diminishes what they accomplished before.
it doesn't, however ignoring reality and complaining that things change helps no one, nor does being defensive about it,
or trying to infer it is something personal.

Some of us do not have the skills to type. 

Agreed.  The ability to type is no longer a requirement for the use of computers or mobile technology.

There is a big difference in the ability to do something and the inability to do something. 

Yes, there is, however I am going to assume that what you meant to say is:

"There is a big difference between the ability to do something and the willingness to do it."

To which I would also agree, and as a couple of others have posted as well, both states appears to exist
here based on the OP - the member has neither the ability to perform, nor the interest to learn, and
further has been cited as someone with a contentious demeanor.  The result is an unhappy member,
unhappy peers, and no benefit for anyone, including CAP, but lots of potential negative.

I have personally spent uncountable hours helping and mentoring people, both in CAP and in my professional
career, utilize technology to their advantage.  Rare is the person who simply and literally cannot understand,
common are people who have decided they are disinterested in the offer, or unhappy with the circumstance,
therefore have no intention of putting forth the effort.

In the latter, at some point you have to disengage and move on.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 10:48:02 AM by Eclipse » Logged

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Shieldel
Member

Posts: 63
Unit: PCR-NV-802

« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2017, 12:23:16 PM »

I've had A LOT of major differences with Eclipse in the past few months (I'm beginning to think I'm developing a poor rep on this board, I haven't even logged in months, didn't want to be known as the idiot hot-headed new senior on the block with TONS of attitude), but I really have to agree with him here.

Between my cadet years and last year on a FEMA Internship to where I deployed to Louisiana, to most recently where NVWG is JUST FINALLY getting recognized/known by the state and county emergency managers, I've come across a lot of elders. Some have needed assistance, others just are too stuck in their "old ways" shall we say and refuse to..."modernize" (I'm really trying to say this delicately) some have even refused to the point to come across as plain hostile. Some people you just can't help, gotta call it and move on to the next person. Call it "triaging" trainees

When I was a cadet sometime between...2013-2015 I was very active in Wing and Squadron SAREXes around Southern Nevada. It helps that dad is an IC and was present for most of those but dad is irrelevant to the point. We have a lot of elder seniors (no pun intended) that require assistance with even basic functions with the IMU (we used to use the IMU, we've since migrated to the IMS, but again, irrelevant detail here). I was a SET for MSA (was, now past tense as most of my quals expired while I was on deployment with FEMA, working on getting them back), which people LOVED, as I was a young cadet, so it was kindof a given I knew tech, they would always plop me down with the elder senior and show them the system. Some loved having it explained by a cadet (who was very patient, but I try not to toot my own horn), others were grumbling about "not doing it on paper" to which I would always fire back with "Well hey, tell ya what? NVWG wants say the radio log done in IMU AND on Paper in case of a facility evac if SHTF, why don't you just do it on paper then?," some were thankful I knew the ICP policy and gave them an out. Others grumbled still and wondered why we even bother with tech at all. And others were just downright scared or hostile towards tech.

When I was with FEMA I was SO shocked to see some guys work with just paper. The FCO, a retired Marine did not have it. Anybody that refused to use tech was asked to either grab a laptop and get with it, or you can be transferred to another disaster or sent back to your home region facility. FEMA uses WEBEOC, we NEEDED to use technology, we had FIVE floors of federal and state personnel, we used tech to talk, to brief, and to stay in touch with personnel at the home office. To REALLY drive the point home, I was attached to an IMAT, one of their caches is NOTHING but pelican cases of tech. The only thing I EVER used on paper was filling out and updating T-Cards and keeping deployed Task Forces and Crews up to date on the T-Card Board as I was a FEMA Planner. Have the cert to prove it! I was tasked with all "tangible" documents outside of the Incident Action Plan. Being on disaster on 4277 (Louisiana's federal declaration number for the 1,000 year flood) was enjoyable and really opened my eyes as I've never had a real-world CAP deployment/mission. Granted even now as we speak, CAP crews in Northern Nevada are flying as now we have FEMA deployed at home for flooding up north. I also made briefing books for the FEMA and State OSC, the Deputy OSC and the Mission Assignment Manager.

The reality of today is tech is ingrained into I want to say darn-near if not every industry. Even at my work at the T-Mobile Arena as a Warehouse Runner, I badge in using a card, I work the computer and dispatch other warehouse runners using the computer and phone, our inventory is done on the computer, our end of event reports are done on the computer, even "basic" labor work involves tech in someway these days.

Now since I've come home Clark County EOC has been made aware of CAP (I had no idea we were unknown to the county...that was kindof embarrassing) after we helped them out on photo recon for Mt. Charleston this year. Aircrews flew photo missions and since we had geo-tagged photos (God bless the CAP Nikons!) one of our pilots has software that compiled all the geotagged photos and put them in order around the mountain, to even include the altitude since it was in the geo-tag. CCEOC got a good idea of what they were dealing with thanks to photography, photo editing (a little touch up here and there, Photoshop!) and some REALLY nice photo compilation software that compiled all the photos onto the mountain's topography. Now we're flying up in NorNev (Northern Nevada) almost every day between the 2 northern squads with aircraft, and beaming the photos back to NV SEOC upon landing using the state's uploader system.

TL;DR Tech is important in today's age. Don't be the person to gripe and grumble and cause headaches for others, granted I can be patient with you and train you if I know you look like you actually want it, but if you refuse to learn or make it obvious you're just glossing over it, now I have a headache. I have to go back to the OSC or IC or whoever else and report that I have a command post staff member who refuses to learn what they need to learn. Why should I waste my time teaching if I know it'll not be put to use? And I'll echo the point, if you refuse to use tech in a prevalent tech world, what good are you here? Again, I can work with it if you need help, but if you stubbornly refuse, it makes me wonder what you're doing here.
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Flight Officer Michael D. Scheidle
Jack Schofield Cadet Squadron
ES Officer
ES Training Officer
FEMA Corps Class 23 Alumni - FEMA-4277-DR-LA Deployment to Baton Rouge FEMA JFO August - October 2016
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« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2017, 03:40:23 PM »

Are you with FEMA? Its not clear.
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
THRAWN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,743

« Reply #35 on: April 12, 2017, 04:35:56 PM »

Behave, Nin.
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Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
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Shieldel
Member

Posts: 63
Unit: PCR-NV-802

« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2017, 05:54:07 PM »

Colonel Ninness sir, I was with AmeriCorps last year on a national service term. For the purposes of the conversation, I tried not to sound too much like a broken record. I still get a little excited when I can talk about it because I loved the opportunity so much.
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Flight Officer Michael D. Scheidle
Jack Schofield Cadet Squadron
ES Officer
ES Training Officer
FEMA Corps Class 23 Alumni - FEMA-4277-DR-LA Deployment to Baton Rouge FEMA JFO August - October 2016
NIN
VIP

Posts: 4,443
Unit: of issue

« Reply #37 on: April 12, 2017, 06:13:02 PM »

Colonel Ninness sir, I was with AmeriCorps last year on a national service term. For the purposes of the conversation, I tried not to sound too much like a broken record. I still get a little excited when I can talk about it because I loved the opportunity so much.

You're fine, I was just needling you a tiny bit.  Your enthusiasm was obvious. :)

(I realized later I should have said "Asking for a friend" to be more "with it.")
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
NIN
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« Reply #38 on: April 12, 2017, 06:14:26 PM »

Behave, Nin.

Spoil sport. :(
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
NIN
VIP

Posts: 4,443
Unit: of issue

« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2017, 06:16:29 PM »

So, what did you answer, to that comment?

My basic answer was "Look, use post-its on a white board or something, it doesn't matter. But track your prospects in a way that makes sure you have positive contact, you get them the info they need, and you're not the bottleneck on the thing.  Electronically makes sense from a distributed work point of view, but if you can't get that far, do it with lined paper in a notebook if need be."

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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Duty Positions for the Technologically Challenged?
 


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